BF2S Forums Surrender: Lebanese government caves to Hezbollah’s demands

rammunition wrote:

Lisik wrote:

rammunition wrote:

like i have said, Israel is NOTHING without the U.S

Israel would have been NOTHING without the U.S

lmao why you so angry?

im not angry, im just stating that without the U.S Israel wouldn't be where it is in terms of military, education, software engineering etc

Do you not realize that Israel got most of its early capability from the UK and France? And then they modified that stuff and made it much better? Just like they did with the US equipment they purchased.

Let's look at just aircraft in the region:

Israel: F-15s and F-16s bought from the US
Saudi Arabia: F-15s and E-3s bought from the US
Jordan: F-16s bought from the US
Egypt: F-16s bought from the US

Yeah...I guess it is just Israel that's getting stuff from the US.

FEOS wrote:

rammunition wrote:

Lisik wrote:

lmao why you so angry?

im not angry, im just stating that without the U.S Israel wouldn't be where it is in terms of military, education, software engineering etc

Do you not realize that Israel got most of its early capability from the UK and France? And then they modified that stuff and made it much better? Just like they did with the US equipment they purchased.

Let's look at just aircraft in the region:

Israel: F-15s and F-16s bought from the US
Saudi Arabia: F-15s and E-3s bought from the US
Jordan: F-16s bought from the US
Egypt: F-16s bought from the US

Yeah...I guess it is just Israel that's getting stuff from the US.

The only difference is that israel bought the stuff from the US with american tax payer's money.

FEOS wrote:

rammunition wrote:

Lisik wrote:

lmao why you so angry?

im not angry, im just stating that without the U.S Israel wouldn't be where it is in terms of military, education, software engineering etc

Do you not realize that Israel got most of its early capability from the UK and France? And then they modified that stuff and made it much better? Just like they did with the US equipment they purchased.

Let's look at just aircraft in the region:

Israel: F-15s and F-16s bought from the US
Saudi Arabia: F-15s and E-3s bought from the US
Jordan: F-16s bought from the US
Egypt: F-16s bought from the US

Yeah...I guess it is just Israel that's getting stuff from the US.

Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt are perceived as sell outs within the Muslim world.

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

FEOS wrote:

rammunition wrote:

im not angry, im just stating that without the U.S Israel wouldn't be where it is in terms of military, education, software engineering etc

Do you not realize that Israel got most of its early capability from the UK and France? And then they modified that stuff and made it much better? Just like they did with the US equipment they purchased.

Let's look at just aircraft in the region:

Israel: F-15s and F-16s bought from the US
Saudi Arabia: F-15s and E-3s bought from the US
Jordan: F-16s bought from the US
Egypt: F-16s bought from the US

Yeah...I guess it is just Israel that's getting stuff from the US.

The only difference is that israel bought the stuff from the US with american tax payer's money.

Only not.

Yes, they do get some monetary aid (a lot, actually), but the arms they receive are purchased via either foreign military sales (FMS) or direct commercial sales (DCS). Either way, they pay for it themselves.

ZombieVampire! wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Only not.

Yes, they do get some monetary aid (a lot, actually), but the arms they receive are purchased via either foreign military sales (FMS) or direct commercial sales (DCS). Either way, they pay for it themselves.

So, how exactly do you seperate what's done with foreign and what's done with local money?

How do you separate what you buy out of your checking account versus what you buy with a credit card? Or out of your savings?

There's these people called accountants who keep track of that stuff for governments and whatnot.

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

FEOS wrote:

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

The only difference is that israel bought the stuff from the US with american tax payer's money.

Only not.

Yes, they do get some monetary aid (a lot, actually), but the arms they receive are purchased via either foreign military sales (FMS) or direct commercial sales (DCS). Either way, they pay for it themselves.

They don't pay for it themselves..  they receive money from the american tax payer and in return they have to buy american military equipements.

Its a win win situation for israel and the military industrial complex.

And the american tax payer lose..

It doesn't work that way, but there's no convincing you otherwise because it wouldn't suit your argument.

Bertster7 wrote:

FEOS wrote:

AutralianChainsaw wrote:

They don't pay for it themselves..  they receive money from the american tax payer and in return they have to buy american military equipements.

Its a win win situation for israel and the military industrial complex.

And the american tax payer lose..

It doesn't work that way, but there's no convincing you otherwise because it wouldn't suit your argument.

Yes it does.

US sends money to Israel. Israel spends money on US weapons. Simple as that. You can dress it up any way you want to, but it doesn't change those two very simple facts.

It is classed as military aid and that's exactly what it is.

The US also give Israel discount rates on military purchases, which again, is military aid.

In any case, what is FMS if not American taxpayers money being spent on weapons by Israel?

The US pay a third of Israel's total defence budget each year.

FMS is the US government selling either new or used equipment/arms to another country. If it's used, it is sold at a discount. If it's new, it is sold at the same price the US paid for it.

Military aid goes to many countries, and I'm willing to bet that some of those others have a higher percentage of their military budget in aid from the US than Israel.

It's part of diplomacy, and it happens all over the world from many different countries...most of them in Europe.

And where do you get your "one third" metric? I'm not saying it's not true, just that I can't find it on any of the usual suspects.

I actually agree with the Doc on this:
[google]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-675732272133853571&hl=en[/google]
Lets just back away and stop restraining them (Israel).. all in all the US gives foreign aid to Arab nations three times greater than Israel.

Kmarion wrote:

I actually agree with the Doc on this:
[google]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-675732272133853571&hl=en[/google]
Lets just back away and stop restraining them (Israel).. all in all the US gives foreign aid to Arab nations three times greater than Israel.

Why don't we stop giving aid to EVERYONE?  Seriously, if anyone in America wants to give money to foreign nations for whatever aid they want to, they have that freedom.

I'd rather we not force taxpayers to subsidize any nation, whether it's Israel or any other nation.  Foreign Aid should be a personal choice, not a governmental mandate.

So yeah, I definitely agree with Paul on this one.

Last edited by Turquoise (2008-05-17 20:39:15)

Yes, but we have to buy it. I have doubts as to whether Israel pays the US for its brand new choppers.

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Mind you, I agree with both of you, but one thing, Turq. Yes, that would be right in a perfect world but in reality people are too damned lazy to give a cent to starving kids half a world away. That's why governments ought to pick up the slack.

Last edited by Spark (2008-05-17 21:07:25)

Spark wrote:

Yes, but we have to buy it. I have doubts as to whether Israel pays the US for its brand new choppers.

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Mind you, I agree with both of you, but one thing, Turq. Yes, that would be right in a perfect world but in reality people are too damned lazy to give a cent to starving kids half a world away. That's why governments ought to pick up the slack.

Well, if the government wants to spend my money for foreign aid, I should at least get to decide what nation it goes to....

Kmarion wrote:

Like I said.. I think the US needs to pull back completely from that decayed civilization. Israel does not need our charity to survive. Oil?.. fuck it.. they want to sell it to us just as much as we want to buy it. Camel toe exports have been down since the late 70's.

it sounds good and logical, and it appeals to my and many others sense of utter frustration at this chronically unstable region that we are beholden to  Cut the Cord.

The idea scares me though, when Paul is saying 'stop restraining Israel' .... removing all aid to the middle east ?

I just picture carnage, way  beyond what we see now




It won't happen though 

we are too obsessed with OIL STABILITY

ZombieVampire! wrote:

Funnily enough, we've managed to avoid making people that angry by and large.  Having said that, the issue isn't what you'll do for us.  And what you'd actually do for us is send your armed forces over, because of ANZUS and (more importantly) because of the strategic implications.

Kinda nice not having any neighbors ain't it? Shark attacks are the only things you guys have to fend off.