Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7044|London, England
If you can ignore the name of the website. I've found a pretty good article which doubts he was.

Before we even talk about the miracles, did the guy even exist?

I know, too long. Didn't read. So here are some interesting quotes. Actually you know what, read the whole article please. Because I've ended up copy and pasting too much.

What, then, is the evidence that Jesus Christ lived in this world as a man? The authorities relied upon to prove the reality of Christ are the four Gospels of the New Testament -- Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. These Gospels, and these alone, tell the story of his life. Now we know absolutely nothing of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, apart from what is said of them in the Gospels. Moreover, the Gospels themselves do not claim to have been written by these men. They are not called "The Gospel of Matthew," or "The Gospel of Mark," but "The Gospel According to Matthew," "The Gospel According to Mark," "The Gospel According to Luke," and "The Gospel According to John." No human being knows who wrote a single line in one of these Gospels. No human being knows when they were written, or where. Biblical scholarship has established the fact that the Gospel of Mark is the oldest of the four. The chief reasons for this conclusion are that this Gospel is shorter, simpler, and more natural, than any of the other three. It is shown that the Gospels of Matthew and Luke were enlarged from the Gospel of Mark. The Gospel of Mark knows nothing of the virgin birth, of the Sermon on the Mount, of the Lord's prayer, or of other important facts of the supposed life of Christ. These features were added by Matthew and Luke.
Christ is supposed to have been a Jew, and his disciples are said to have been Jewish fishermen. His language, and the language of his followers must, therefore, have been Aramaic -- the popular language of Palestine in that age. But the Gospels are written in Greek -- every one of them. Nor were they translated from some other language. Every leading Christian scholar since Erasmus, four hundred years ago, has maintained that they were originally written in Greek. This proves that they were not written by Christ's disciples, or by any of the early Christians. Foreign Gospels, written by unknown men, in a foreign tongue, several generations after the death of those who are supposed to have known the facts -- such is the evidence relied upon to prove that Jesus lived.
His home was Nazareth. He was called "Jesus of Nazareth"; and there he is said to have lived until the closing years of his life. Now comes the question -- Was there a city of Nazareth in that age? The Encyclopaedia Biblica, a work written by theologians, the greatest biblical reference work in the English language, says: "We cannot perhaps venture to assert positively that there was a city of Nazareth in Jesus' time." No certainty that there was a city of Nazareth! Not only are the supposed facts of the life of Christ imaginary, but the city of his birth and youth and manhood existed, so far as we know, only on the map of mythology. What amazing evidence to prove the reality of a Divine man! Absolute ignorance as to his ancestry; nothing whatever known of the time of his birth, and even the existence of the city where he is said to have been born, a matter of grave question!
Philo, one of the most renowned writers the Jewish race has produced, was born before the beginning of the Christian Era, and lived for many years after the time at which Jesus is supposed to have died. His home was in or near Jerusalem, where Jesus is said to have preached, to have performed miracles, to have been crucified, and to have risen from the dead. Had Jesus done these things, the writings of Philo would certainly contain some record of his life. Yet this philosopher, who must have been familiar with Herod's massacre of the innocents, and with the preaching, miracles and death of Jesus, had these things occurred; who wrote an account of the Jews, covering this period, and discussed the very questions that are said to have been near to Christ's heart, never once mentioned the name of, or any deed connected with, the reputed Savior of the world.
Read the bits about "Paul" etc.. also.

Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-05-18 14:52:30)

OrangeHound
Busy doing highfalutin adminy stuff ...
+1,335|7073|Washington DC

This has been discussed quite a bit in this thread:
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=80256
MetaL*
Banned
+188|6581|Anaheim, Mexifornia
No closes kthx

Last edited by MetaL* (2008-05-18 14:56:08)

Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7044|London, England
But read that article, it has some pretty solid stuff. I'm going to go read that topic. Interesting first post in that topic OH ..

edit: I don't even remember that topic yet I posted on the second page

Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-05-18 15:00:07)

OrangeHound
Busy doing highfalutin adminy stuff ...
+1,335|7073|Washington DC

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

But read that article, it has some pretty solid stuff.
Actually, I would disagree that it is solid.

First, it is not approaching the subject matter with a balanced view, but is highly opinionated in its antagonistic position - it is, in essence, the opposite of a hyper-Christian view.

Second, it gives the impression that this is some sort of growing movement ... actually, it was highly promoted back in the 1800s and really hasn't gotten any scholarly steam in over 100 years (only the internet is adding to its popularity among non-scholars).

Third, it is not accounting for recent work, and is likely using many sources from the work done in the 1800s.  For example, it claims that there are no written gospel records in 150 years after the events of Christ.  Even the most liberal dating of the Rylands Papyrus is 130 years after the events of Christ - it was discovered in the 1920's - and circumstances of its discovery and analysis show that it is not the original (so the original pre-dates).

There are many better treatments of this subject.
FallenMorgan
Member
+53|6337|Glendale, CA
It's possible that Jesus was made up.  There's a documentary called "The God That Wasn't There" or something.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7181|Argentina
I think there was some Jewish guy called Jesus or whatever, but he wasn't the son of God.  He's the most influential person in history whether he existed or not.
motherdear
Member
+25|7075|Denmark/Minnesota (depends)
i believe that he properly existed but not in the portrayed form and i don't believe in a god, but i think that he was just a guy that dedicated his life to help the poor and that later civilizations have given him godly powers and said that he was the soon of god and claimed him for their own.
it's a proven fact that the bible is made by people and has been modified so many times that it is properly not recognizeable anymore (so why not claim jesus for their own if it could benefit the religion)
Lisik
Member
+74|6924|Israel
Jesus was real. But he was just another jewish guy,who was walking around, talking about how to live your damn life!
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6979
Josephus the Roman historian mentions Jesus in his accounts of the 1st century AD I believe.

""And now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus. Now the report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate man; for he had five sons who had all performed the office of a high priest to God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long time formerly, which had never happened to any other of our high priests. But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees, who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king, desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a sanhedrin without his consent. Whereupon Albinus complied with what they said, and wrote in anger to Ananus, and threatened that he would bring him to punishment for what he had done; on which king Agrippa took the high priesthood from him, when he had ruled but three months, and made Jesus, the son of Damneus, high priest."

/thread

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-05-18 16:31:30)

FallenMorgan
Member
+53|6337|Glendale, CA
Most of the gospels were written long after the time of Jesus, but he might have been a real person, just not the son of god or something.
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6892
Well considering there were guys who claimed to know Jesus were recorded to have allowed themselves to die rather than renounce his existence, I highly doubt he wasn't at least a real person.
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6870|Chicago, IL
Wasn't he mentioned in Pontius Pilate's memoirs?

There's very little debate about his actual existence, like Muhammad or the Buddha, it's generally accepted that they were alive.

For that matter, how could Jesus start a religion if he never existed?

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