Yeah, time to show the world what a REAL War For Oil is all about. (And if Iraq was/is a "war for oil," then why is the US not controlling the Iraqi oil?) There have been wars for resources throughout history. Why is it now suddenly dirty because the resource in question is oil?HurricaИe wrote:
Why don't Americans and Brits and everyone else just take over all the oil facilities? 300 million people could do it. If those OPEC fuckers wanna stop us, they'll have to kill every last one of us. And then they won't have anybody to buy their oils.
OPERATION: OILY DESTINY
You dont know how much i hate my own nationality.FatherTed wrote:
You're of Polish Decent, and you're laughing at the slaughter of another race? Get a grip on reality David, i thought you were getting there at one point.
did you hear about the Polish kamikaze? He flew 48 missions!David.P wrote:
You dont know how much i hate my own nationality.FatherTed wrote:
You're of Polish Decent, and you're laughing at the slaughter of another race? Get a grip on reality David, i thought you were getting there at one point.
did you hear about the Polish submarine? It had screen doors!
how do you stop the polish cavalry? turn off the carousel!
It's not just their stupidity that pisses me off. But the way they expect to be treated in regards to others that are not polish. So many times i've had these asshole cut in line, Take 10 minutes to decide, And just walk away without even a word. Other times while i'm serving an american customer they start talking to me in polish trying to place their order. I tell them to wait, Some get pissed off and leave, Others wanna talk to the boss, And some wont stop talking. But the worst are those who think I owe them something more then what they paid for! Fuckers! I keep telling them soda ain't free, Or it's 2 sides with your order not 4 or more! Yes you can substitute potatoes for something else. No it wont always be the same price!HurricaИe wrote:
did you hear about the Polish kamikaze? He flew 48 missions!David.P wrote:
You dont know how much i hate my own nationality.FatherTed wrote:
You're of Polish Decent, and you're laughing at the slaughter of another race? Get a grip on reality David, i thought you were getting there at one point.
did you hear about the Polish submarine? It had screen doors!
how do you stop the polish cavalry? turn off the carousel!
God fucking damn I hate these assholes. Not all are bad, But most Are...
did you all know that gas is not the chief source of profit from an oil company? It's actually lubricants derived from the oil, and the oil itself. ExxonMobil's fantasy is to not even have to sell gas anymore, cause it takes so much work. But most people only see the oil company at the pump, and not in a lot of its other more lucrative sectors of business. Gas prices are expensive because oil prices are expensive, but oil prices are expensive chiefly because of speculation into oil as a commodity, not because of a shortage or anything like that. And unfortunately, because we've started tying our energy and agriculture industries together with this ethanol joke, we find that speculation and inflation on the part of oil begins to drive the price of corn, which affects the price of everything else that's grown. The first thing we need to do is stop using ethanol, so I don't have to pay out the ass at both the pump AND the check out line. Then you need to regulate speculation. And that should bring oil back down to something closer to $80 a barrel. Oh, and we should KILL Al Gore, for trying to mix politics and science.
... and let the al gore corn smoking n00bies start their rants about sustainability and a green and prosperous renewable utopia that doesn't make sense without the help of pot start..... now.
... and let the al gore corn smoking n00bies start their rants about sustainability and a green and prosperous renewable utopia that doesn't make sense without the help of pot start..... now.
he sucker punched my ancestor in a bar, and nearly got beaten to death for itDavid.P wrote:
Andrew Jackson would be better. He didn't take shit from noone, and when pushed he pushed back.MetaL* wrote:
I wish Theodore Roosevelt was alive and our president again right now so he could do something about it.
It's not the oil companies that do it. The oil companies extract the oil as quickly as they can and sell as much of it as quickly as they can. The price has everything to do with the scarcity of oil, although the swelling demand for oil actually has a far greater effect on the market.FallenMorgan wrote:
Here, it's like 4 dollars a gallon. It's the oil companies who do this. It has nothing to do with the scarcity of oil.
Oil prices are set to continue to rise. Probably indefinitely. Since we have virtually hit the peak of oil production, it's all downhill from here. The good days of cheap oil are behind us. You're going to have to get used to it. Live with it.
Massively increased investment could increase the rate of extraction, marginally. But we are on the verge of hitting peak oil, where we will face a decline in oil production of a few percent a year, as the demand grows by a few percent a year - it's all going to get progressively more expensive.
Many people seem determined to assert that it is nothing to do with the amount of oil remaining. Those people are wrong. In the UK for example, truckers are blaming fuel duty, which is at the lowest it has been for decades (as a percentage of the price at the pump).
A) You can't regulate speculation. The financial markets have substantially more power than any nation. They decide the price of commodities and of currency and of everything else. When the government goes up against the financial sector they lose, like with Black Wednesday in the UK. It cannot be done.iamangry wrote:
Gas prices are expensive because oil prices are expensive, but oil prices are expensive chiefly because of speculation into oil as a commodity, not because of a shortage or anything like that. And unfortunately, because we've started tying our energy and agriculture industries together with this ethanol joke, we find that speculation and inflation on the part of oil begins to drive the price of corn, which affects the price of everything else that's grown. The first thing we need to do is stop using ethanol, so I don't have to pay out the ass at both the pump AND the check out line. Then you need to regulate speculation. And that should bring oil back down to something closer to $80 a barrel.
B) The price will continue to go up because demand will continue to go up and supply won't. In fact it will very soon go into terminal decline. This is not scaremongering, but well demonstrated fact. Speculation fuels these price increases and the price increases fuel speculation. This is not to say we would not be facing increased prices without speculation, because of the supply/demand balance. The (very near) future scarcity of the resource means that it is an attractive buy for speculators and this further inflates the price.
What I'm getting at, is that speculation isn't the cause of the price rise, but it acts as a feedback effect, making the situation worse. But that is how the markets work. Changing that would mean changing the entire global economic system, which is virtually impossible.
Oil prices are set to rise, forever, until it's gone. There is very little anyone can do about this.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2008-05-28 12:43:42)
+1, you've certainly grasped a few of the major issues, but there still uncertainties as to what the price per barrel of oil should truthfully be at this stage, rather than this inflated price we're seeing today.iamangry wrote:
did you all know that gas is not the chief source of profit from an oil company? It's actually lubricants derived from the oil, and the oil itself. ExxonMobil's fantasy is to not even have to sell gas anymore, cause it takes so much work. But most people only see the oil company at the pump, and not in a lot of its other more lucrative sectors of business. Gas prices are expensive because oil prices are expensive, but oil prices are expensive chiefly because of speculation into oil as a commodity, not because of a shortage or anything like that. And unfortunately, because we've started tying our energy and agriculture industries together with this ethanol joke, we find that speculation and inflation on the part of oil begins to drive the price of corn, which affects the price of everything else that's grown. The first thing we need to do is stop using ethanol, so I don't have to pay out the ass at both the pump AND the check out line. Then you need to regulate speculation. And that should bring oil back down to something closer to $80 a barrel. Oh, and we should KILL Al Gore, for trying to mix politics and science.
... and let the al gore corn smoking n00bies start their rants about sustainability and a green and prosperous renewable utopia that doesn't make sense without the help of pot start..... now.
Well... Here in Finland it's about 1,50 €/LITER! And I've heard rumors that it would be 2€/liter by summer.... Could someone send some money for gas?! :p It really hurts in my wallet when I buy about 40 liters.......
If the US thinks 4USD/gallon is bad, then no offense but the US needs to harden the fuck up.
5 55 for gas down the street
diesel
diesel
Well, that is less people to be driving cars now.Poseidon wrote:
He also led the slaughter of countless indians with the first ever "Final Solution", but who cares about them!David.P wrote:
Andrew Jackson would be better. He didn't take shit from noone, and when pushed he pushed back.MetaL* wrote:
I wish Theodore Roosevelt was alive and our president again right now so he could do something about it.
Thats horrible, I really cant stand watching the underprivileged even though I know theres nothing I can do myself. Gas prices are ridiculous but blame the fact that its getting more and more scarce throughout the yearsFallenMorgan wrote:
Today at the gas station we saw a down and out looking one-eyed fellow. He was sitting on a curb around the gas station, holding an empty gas can. He had a truck full of scrap metal, and we imagined he needed gas money in order to take the stuff to a scrap yard and make money to live off of. We felt bad so we gave him around a total of ten bucks or so. He bought gas - we saw him buy gas, he didn't use it for alcohol or anything. The gas station didn't sell alcahol - it wasn't a mini-mart thing.
Anyways, it made me realize that gas is getting expensive to the point where some people can't survive. Here, it's like 4 dollars a gallon. It's the oil companies who do this. It has nothing to do with the scarcity of oil. In general, the oil companies need to be regulated. If it gets up to say, ten dollars a gallon, nobody can work.
Discuss.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________ 
Even if we find an alternative for transport (yeah OK Hydrogen or something else for cars) what about av-gas? How about plastics? We so need a big leap in technology....
When people drive less, it will ultimately help out the gas prices. Supply will go up up up, while demand goes down; while lowering gas prices.
You know when gas is expensive when you're paying as much as Europeans, ie U$8/gal.
Stop the whining FFS.
Stop the whining FFS.
Fuck Israel
'Fraid not. We're on the downhill portion of the oil production curve at this point (many say peak oil production was in 2005). Supply will keep going down, and with China and India industrializing, it can only go up.SoC./Omega wrote:
When people drive less, it will ultimately help out the gas prices. Supply will go up up up, while demand goes down; while lowering gas prices.
and yet i don't hear about thousands of britons or norwegians or whatever on the streets begging for cash either. It's all relative.Dilbert_X wrote:
You know when gas is expensive when you're paying as much as Europeans, ie U$8/gal.
Stop the whining FFS.
Ya, and food production also peaked in 2005...WE'RE ALL GOING TO STARVE!CommieChipmunk wrote:
'Fraid not. We're on the downhill portion of the oil production curve at this point (many say peak oil production was in 2005). Supply will keep going down, and with China and India industrializing, it can only go up.SoC./Omega wrote:
When people drive less, it will ultimately help out the gas prices. Supply will go up up up, while demand goes down; while lowering gas prices.
Gas won't hit EU highs, you watch and see. Plus, with plans for a bullet train going from New York to D.C (and then that same idea of connecting big cities will spread), thus reducing gas prices.
It sure is tempting, isn't it? Bertster managed to convince me otherwise in that other thread though. It's still more feasible to just move away from foreign oil by more drilling here and moving toward alternative energy sources.imortal wrote:
Yeah, time to show the world what a REAL War For Oil is all about. (And if Iraq was/is a "war for oil," then why is the US not controlling the Iraqi oil?) There have been wars for resources throughout history. Why is it now suddenly dirty because the resource in question is oil?HurricaИe wrote:
Why don't Americans and Brits and everyone else just take over all the oil facilities? 300 million people could do it. If those OPEC fuckers wanna stop us, they'll have to kill every last one of us. And then they won't have anybody to buy their oils.
OPERATION: OILY DESTINY
War is usually more expensive and destructive than it's worth.
That's primarily because they have way better social programs in places like Norway. That place seems to be almost paradise from everything I've gathered on it. Of course, it's also expensive as hell, and immigration is pretty tight.HurricaИe wrote:
and yet i don't hear about thousands of britons or norwegians or whatever on the streets begging for cash either. It's all relative.Dilbert_X wrote:
You know when gas is expensive when you're paying as much as Europeans, ie U$8/gal.
Stop the whining FFS.
Trust me, it doesn't work like that. You're leaving out a very important factor here -- our own demand hits us hard because we need more refineries. Also, even if we consume less, China and India will just rise in their consumption still.SoC./Omega wrote:
Ya, and food production also peaked in 2005...WE'RE ALL GOING TO STARVE!CommieChipmunk wrote:
'Fraid not. We're on the downhill portion of the oil production curve at this point (many say peak oil production was in 2005). Supply will keep going down, and with China and India industrializing, it can only go up.SoC./Omega wrote:
When people drive less, it will ultimately help out the gas prices. Supply will go up up up, while demand goes down; while lowering gas prices.
Gas won't hit EU highs, you watch and see. Plus, with plans for a bullet train going from New York to D.C (and then that same idea of connecting big cities will spread), thus reducing gas prices.
I really wish you were right, but Bertster actually has it right.
There are things governments and it's agencies can do, such as the CFTC acknowledging market manipulation, however chooses not to do so. In this example, silver. But it's rather silly to say speculation dictates the exchange rates or currencies. Central banks have the most influence over them, and they choose to keep them at certain "favorable" exchange rates for the global economy.Bertster7 wrote:
A) You can't regulate speculation. The financial markets have substantially more power than any nation. They decide the price of commodities and of currency and of everything else. When the government goes up against the financial sector they lose, like with Black Wednesday in the UK. It cannot be done.
Prices will continue to rise because of inflation mainly, and as oil becomes more expensive here in the US, people here will drive less. In fact they already are. However, China and the rest of Asia is picking up on the demand, so it sort of evens out concerning supply and demand.Bertster7 wrote:
B) The price will continue to go up because demand will continue to go up and supply won't. In fact it will very soon go into terminal decline. This is not scaremongering, but well demonstrated fact. Speculation fuels these price increases and the price increases fuel speculation. This is not to say we would not be facing increased prices without speculation, because of the supply/demand balance. The (very near) future scarcity of the resource means that it is an attractive buy for speculators and this further inflates the price.
What I'm getting at, is that speculation isn't the cause of the price rise, but it acts as a feedback effect, making the situation worse. But that is how the markets work. Changing that would mean changing the entire global economic system, which is virtually impossible.
Oil prices are set to rise, forever, until it's gone. There is very little anyone can do about this.
Your theory that speculation is self-perpetual and will continue forever is false. You need to understand that these speculators are "short", not "long" on oil. They purchase oil, pushing up the price and others will follow because oil starts to look more attractive, and then the major speculators sell at some point to make a profit, which relieves the price of oil. They don't plan to hold onto their oil for years to come. However, if mass speculation brings more mass speculation, then you have a bubble in which case it will burst and the price of oil will collapse.
Most of the speculation occurs on paper. These hedge funds don't store the oil they purchase in some warehouse, they just receive paper saying whoever they bought it from will "promise" to give it to them on demand. So the promise is as good as how honorable the seller is, in which case they may not even have what they are selling to you, or at the time you request your assets. They are sometimes jokingly called naked shorts, and it has lead to many markets to be terribly skewed. It's flabbergasting.
I do agree though the overall trend for the price of oil is up.
I find the lack of insight in this post disturbing.Im_Dooomed wrote:
Or you could also blame the Environmental organizations for preventing, and campaigning against drilling in Alaska which contains a shit load of oil...Or you could blame Congress for not changing the legislation for drilling in Alaska. Or you could blame our Government for not importing more from South America?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman