CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6992|Portland, OR, USA
Should no alternative become readily available, will it be such a bad thing? 

It's inevitable and we all know it, the oil bubble is going to burst, whether it be in 10 years or 100 years.  The industrialized world fears the day when using oil for the many tasks it has in daily life becomes unfeasible, but I think that oil has given humanity a false sense of purpose on this earth.  Through the use of oil, we've achieved many great things: it is now possible to hop from continent to continent in a matter of hours and interstate travel has become infinitely more efficient, modern medicine has allowed us to live much longer and much healthier lives, the technological revolution most definitely spawned because of oil and it's derivatives, agricultural advancements now allow us to feed numbers that would not be possible without oil, and the manufacture of pretty much everything has become much easier.  But in this technologically inclined era, we've made it our purpose (even if we don't really have a purpose) to invent that next "big thing."  Commercialism and consumerism are traits that now define our society, and at times it seems as though they completely outweigh any compassion or caring that once existed.  A perfect example is the world of technology where everything keeps getting bigger, better and faster; this is not necessarily a bad thing, but is this what we're meant to live for?  It seems that as we advance technologically we decline socially.  I know in most homes and often my own, time spent watching television or on the computer dwarfs time spent actually as a family.

Now when it comes to questions like these, I know that there is no correct path for humanity to follow, but do the technological benefits of advancement outweigh the societal cons?  If we find no real alternative for oil and we begin to 'technologically devolve', for lack of a better phrase, will that necessarily be a bad thing?  Sure automobiles and the internet will be missed, and chance are, for a while quality of life will drop greatly as the millions, maybe billions, that can't be supported without oil for either transportation of goods, agriculture or medicine die off; but we've become so dependent on, and spoiled by, technology that we've lost much of the need for real human interaction -- I'm typing this on a computer to be read over the internet while hundreds of people live in my neighborhood within walking distance, yet none will ever hear me speak any of these words -- and I personally believe that as a culture and society, we've lost more than we've gained.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6528|eXtreme to the maX
agricultural advancements now allow us to feed numbers that would not be possible without oil
Thats going to be the killer.
Fuck Israel
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|7038|do not disturb

Heh, oil bubble? Maybe, and if so, 10 to 100 years to burst? Come on, a lot sooner than that.

Modern life has provide a multitude of services, most importantly providing food on a mass scale. How many people could effectively farm to feed themselves? Not very many, at least in the western world. We are not as strong, resilient, or industrial as we use to be. People will not take it well when the easy things in life start to disappear quickly.

Last edited by Phrozenbot (2008-06-07 22:51:18)

liquix
Member
+51|6876|Peoples Republic of Portland
Commie, I often consider this myself, as do many others in my field. A colleague of mine who happens to be largely a bicycle designer is currently attempting to build a process to produce bicycles without petroleum products. The largest issues so far are the air filled wheel membranes and lubricants. Of course to forge metal, he will have to use fire, which must come from some carbon source or another (wood in this case). The metal itself is all recycled, which relies upon the petroleum fueled heavy industries post consumer waste products.

Anyway, what I mean to mention is that through the use of petroleum for these few hundred years, we may have a chance to reach beyond the resource itself. One of my favorite quotes regarding the age of oil is as follows: "the stone age did not end because we ran out of stone." Now my hopes are that as a scientific culture, we can find a way to get off oil before it drives us to the unspeakable; War. Believe you me, the scenarios you mentioned have two outcomes: war and depopulation. The good thing is, as far as humanity goes, that even if most of us die due to the wars, famine, electricity outages and other various infrastructure failures, there will be a number of us who continue on. Of course I would like my children and their children to enter a world better than the one I myself entered, so I can do my best with my life to try and create that possibility.

Another thing I'd like to mention, is that with this petrochemical powerhouse we live in has produced stunning amounts of data. All of which, or most of which, still exists in libraries around the world. With the use of books, arguably our most valuable non-electric invention, it is possible to engineer MANY alternative electrical devices w/o the use of oil. Of course, we probably will have to jury-rig the devices we already have to work long past-their intended lifetimes...but that's post-apoc for ya.
Nappy
Apprentice
+151|6652|NSW, Australia

i wonder what would happen in they found oil on mars, or the moon
liquix
Member
+51|6876|Peoples Republic of Portland
boo at oil anyways, much more electricity to be had from the sun or nuclear fission/fusion. Oil is kickass as a material, because you can make damn near everything from it, but not as a fuel source.
BVC
Member
+325|7118
We have the ability to power most land and sea transport, and some air transport (prop-based planes), with electricity.
Jet fuel can be made from sewerage.
Fertilisers can be made from sewerage, and the need for pesticides can be mitigated by using planting techniques such as companion planting.

Alternatives for most stuff are already here, we just need to start using them.

Last edited by Pubic (2008-06-08 00:01:25)

Stubbee
Religions Hate Facts, Questions and Doubts
+223|7165|Reality
The US economy is a giant Ponzi scheme. And 'to big to fail' is code speak for 'niahnahniahniahnah 99 percenters'
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6827|North Carolina
There is plenty of energy all around us that can be harnessed -- adapting to life without oil is only a matter of will and creativity.

As long as a significant portion of us are willing to adapt, there is no reason to believe that we will fall back to agrarian subsistence.
SealXo
Member
+309|6958

Nappy wrote:

i wonder what would happen in they found oil on mars, or the moon
How would this be shipped they have to drink there own piss on spaceships as it is
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6992|Portland, OR, USA

Nappy wrote:

i wonder what would happen in they found oil on mars, or the moon
You do know what oil is right?  If oil were found on mars or on the moon, that would be incredibly significant.  It would prove the existence of life on mars and the moon.
{B-T}<babacanosh>
Member
+31|7024
After Oil Is War !
liquix
Member
+51|6876|Peoples Republic of Portland

CommieChipmunk wrote:

Nappy wrote:

i wonder what would happen in they found oil on mars, or the moon
You do know what oil is right?  If oil were found on mars or on the moon, that would be incredibly significant.  It would prove the existence of life on mars and the moon.
Depends, if you believe the abiotic theory of oil then it doesn't. The biotic theory however, then yes.
topthrill05
Member
+125|7000|Rochester NY USA

liquix wrote:

CommieChipmunk wrote:

Nappy wrote:

i wonder what would happen in they found oil on mars, or the moon
You do know what oil is right?  If oil were found on mars or on the moon, that would be incredibly significant.  It would prove the existence of life on mars and the moon.
Depends, if you believe the abiotic theory of oil then it doesn't. The biotic theory however, then yes.
The mere existence of some of the largest oil fields support the abiotic theory. Although I find it ironic that the more we use oil the closer our climate becomes to the way it was when it was created or I should say the beginnings of it. ( Please this isn't and invitation to a Global Warming debate.)
paul386
Member
+22|6668
People who think that hydrogen is a better power source than oil I present you think:

Gasoline: 46.9 Megajoules / kg
Hydrogen Fuel cell: 1.62 Megajoules / kg
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6992|Portland, OR, USA
This really wasn't supposed to be about alternative fuels but rather how oil has dictated the purpose of humanity over the last century
The#1Spot
Member
+105|6962|byah

paul386 wrote:

People who think that hydrogen is a better power source than oil I present you think:

Gasoline: 46.9 Megajoules / kg
Hydrogen Fuel cell: 1.62 Megajoules / kg
If you combine both (which there is a way I have been on the site) it will be very beneficial. Means longer engine life, more power, and better fuel economy.
paul386
Member
+22|6668

The#1Spot wrote:

paul386 wrote:

People who think that hydrogen is a better power source than oil I present you think:

Gasoline: 46.9 Megajoules / kg
Hydrogen Fuel cell: 1.62 Megajoules / kg
If you combine both (which there is a way I have been on the site) it will be very beneficial. Means longer engine life, more power, and better fuel economy.
Got proof.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6978

CommieChipmunk wrote:

This really wasn't supposed to be about alternative fuels but rather how oil has dictated the purpose of humanity over the last century
Humans adapt to whatever history throws at them. The end of oil seems cataclysmic right now but humanity will survive although untold carnage awaits. The world will probably have to sharply reduce in population to remain sustainable. We're like fucking vermin at the moment.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-06-09 16:48:56)

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