ATG
Banned
+5,233|6951|Global Command

pierro wrote:

GorillaKing798 wrote:

What are you saying? Immigrants are bad, but not really that bad? And regardless of how they are getting here they are still here illegally.
-The point about how they got there was addressing those that wanted to build a wall
-You are correct, I am saying they are bad but not that bad …the OP basically said it would destroy the country

GorillaKing798 wrote:

Providing them amnesty and health care will triple the amount of illegals coming in, so if you think it's not so bad now, you wait until these plans go into action...
-You are correct, it would triple the costs and above I quoted the study which said that providing amnesty would indeed triple the costs of providing for illegal immigrants meaning illegal immigration costs the average citizen less than $100 a year (that won’t destroy the country) which compared to the other factors I listed above (did I mention the Iraq war will cost me $5000) is pretty negligible and not a major issue

-Overall my problem with those talking about illegal immigration is that they think it will destroy our country…but even if you allow for amnesty that means illegal immigration will only cost us 0.2% of our GDP (29 billion/13.84 trillion)…I guarantee that far more then 1/500th of economic discussions touch on illegal immigration
0.2% of our GDP?
Where'd you get than number, the local day laborers?

Are you counting the billions spent on schools? Have you ever been to Los Angeles where some areas are close to 100% hispanic? Bell High School is the 8th largest high school in the united states with an enrollment of around 8500 of which 95% are the anchor babies of illegal immigrants.

Are you aware that these people already think and act as if we have universal health care?

Sir, your numbers are farcical.
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6758|Oregon

Turquoise wrote:

This may surprise you, but I agree with you.

I'm totally against socialized healthcare UNTIL we secure the border and deport the illegals.

You can be sure that I'll be rooting for the Republican resistance to socialized healthcare until we deal with that problem.
And maybe it will surprise both of you... but probably not because I'm not that big of a D+ST poster, but I agree with both of you.

I've never been that riled up about illegal immigration, and I support universal health care, but the combination will put us so much farther into debt.
logitech487
Member
+16|6825|From The State Of Taxes
You left out how illegals impact the hospitals flooding the e/rs and delivery rooms getting services all for free.
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|7128
Do you have any idea how many hospitals have closed down over the past five years from going bankrupt?
Did you know that 33% of prison inmates are illegal aliens?



25 reasons to deport every single one of them:

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.
http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such
as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school
education for children here illegally.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ … dt.01.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the
American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ … dt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ … dt.01.html


7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ … dt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare &
social services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused
by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ … dt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that’s two
and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their
children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the
United States.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ … dt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens
that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens
from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth,
heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border.
Homeland Security Report:
http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

12. The National Policy Institute, “estimated that the total cost of
mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average
cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.”
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/ … tation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to
their countries of origin.
http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

14. “The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes
Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States”.
http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html

15. Every day 12 Americans are murdered by an illegal alien.
Another 13 Americans are killed by uninsured drunk illegal aliens and
Eight American Children are victims of a sex crime committed by an
illegal alien each day! (Toto, we’re not in Kansas anymore.)
http://tinyurl.com/2ungbu

16. Today, criminal aliens account for over 29 percent of prisoners in
Federal Bureau of Prisons facilities and a higher share of all federal
prison inmates. These prisoners represent the fastest growing segment of
the federal prison population.
Incarceration of criminal aliens cost an estimated $624 million to state
prisons (1999) and $891 million to federal prisons (2002), according to
the most recent available figure from the Bureau of Justice Statistics.
http://tinyurl.com/ahjkg

17. “Illegal Aliens and American Medicine”. “Many illegal aliens harbor
fatal diseases that American Medicine fought and vanquished long ago,
such as drug-resistant tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy, plague, polio,
dengue and Chagas disease.” The Journal of American Physicians and
Surgeons
http://www.jpands.org/jpands1001.htm

18. In 2002, HIV/AIDS was the third leading cause of death among
Hispanic men aged 35 to 44 and the fourth leading cause of death among
Hispanic women in the same age group. Most Hispanic men were exposed to
HIV through sexual contact with other men. Source (CDC):
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsh … spanic.htm

19. If enacted the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (CIRA, S. 2611)
would be the most dramatic change in immigration law in 80 years,
allowing an estimated 103 million persons to legally immigrate to the
U.S. over the next 20 years -fully one-third of the current population
of the United States.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm

20. U.S. Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL) today unveiled an impact analysis
that shows the Senate immigration bill -should it become law - would
permit up to 217.1 million new legal immigrants into the United States
over the next 20 years, a number equal to 66 percent of the total
current population.
http://tinyurl.com/3cawk3

21. The number of illegal immigrants in the United States may be as high
as 20 million people, more than double the official 9 million people
estimated by the Census Bureau. 1/3/05
http://tinyurl.com/2rxtwm

22. Cases of Leprosy on The Rise In The U.S., The New York Times. “While
there were some 900 recorded cases in the United States 40 years ago,
today more than 7,000 people have leprosy..” Leprosy is an airbourne
virus, it can also be spread by touching and coughing.
http://tinyurl.com/3bnukp

23. Organizations Protesting Immigration Reform, State by State.
Won’t you join in?
http://www.oregonir.org/Immigration_Reform_Orgs.htm

24. America Welcomes Illegal’s Contagious Disease.
http://www.rense.com/general64/ill.htm

25. Mexico is the 4th Richest Oil Nation in the World.
http://tinyurl.com/35qbap

Illegal Alien Fact Sheet - Updated: December 10, 2006
http://tinyurl.com/skyf4

Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens which
translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal
aliens
(Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa)

Thirteen Americans are killed by drunk illegal alien drivers for
another annual death toll of 4,745. That’s 23,725 since Sept. 11,
2001.
(Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa)

Eight American children are victims of sexual abuse by illegal
aliens every day a total of 2,920 annually.
(Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa)

K-12 school expenditures for illegal aliens cost U.S. Taxpayers
$7.4 Billion a year
(US Rep.. Gary Miller)

Illegal aliens consume $3.7 Billion annually in Medicare and
Medicaid benefits since 40% of illegal aliens are on U.S. Welfare
(Federation for American Immigration Reform)

$1.6 billion is spent annually in prison costs to house, feed and
clothe illegal aliens who fill 32% of our federal and state prisons
(Fox News Channel O’Reilly Factor)

$10 billion dollars are sent back to Mexico annually by illegal
aliens (according to the Pew Hispanic Center), an amount which
now makes it Mexico’s 2nd largest industry.

Leprosy, (Hansen’s disease), was so rare in America that in 40
years only 900 people were afflicted. Suddenly, in the past three
years America has more than 7,000 cases of leprosy. Leprosy
now is endemic to northeastern states because illegal aliens and
other immigrants brought leprosy from India, Brazil, the
Caribbean, and Mexico
(Thomson American Health Consultants; 2003)

Tuberculosis was virtually absent in Virginia until in 2002, when
it spiked a 17% increase, but Prince William County, just south
of Washington, D.C., had a much larger rise of 188%.
(American Medical Association (JAMA) June 2005)

Illegal aliens make up 32% of State & Federal Prison populations
(FNC O’Reilly Factor)

There are an estimated 240,000 illegal alien sexual predators
currently in the USA
(Violent Crimes Institute - May 2006)

Over 1,000,000 sexual crimes are estimated to have been
committed in the USA over the past seven years by illegal aliens
(Violent Crimes Institute - May 2006)

90% of all crime in Brooks County Texas is committed by illegal
aliens
(Brooks County Sheriff’s Department April 2006)

In the Jan/Feb of 2006, of the 120,000 illegals caught in the
Laredo sector, 2,500 of them were from the Middle East!!!

A large, but unknown, number of al Qaeda terrorists and Chinese
nationals are infiltrating our country virtually anywhere they
choose from Brownsville to San Diego. One al Qaeda terrorist
was held for several weeks after being captured on our border
and is currently under FBI custody.

A large number of Islamic individuals have moved into homes in
Nuevo Laredo and are being taught Spanish to assimilate into
the local culture.
–unbelievable!

Texas Border Sheriffs have found uniform patches from an elite
group of Islamic suicide bombers
(Verified by Israeli intelligence)

The rate of non-Mexican aliens (or OTMs) and special interest
aliens (or SIAs aliens from so-called countries of interest )
apprehended on the northern and southern borders has increased
from 30,147 in 2003 to 44,614 in 2004.
- Congressman Tom Tancredo

By June 30, 2004, the number of SIAs had swelled 42.5% to
6,022 from “Countries of Interest” such as those the State
Department considers sponsors of terrorism (Cuba, Iran, Libya,
North Korea, Sudan, Syria) and others where militant Islam
simmers (Afghanistan, Egypt, Indonesia, Iraq, Jordan,
Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia,
and Yemen).
–Department of Homeland Security

Numerous law enforcement officers have been beaten, stabbed
and shot by illegal aliens over the past few years.
- Officer Rodney Johnson, 40, Houston, Texas.
- Officer Brian Jackson, 28, Dallas, Texas.
- Deputy Brandon “Brandy” Winfield, 29, Marion County, Ohio.
- Detective Hugo Arango, 24, of the Doroville, Ga.
- Deputy Saul Gallegos, 35, Chelan County, Wash.
- Deputy Sheriff David March, 33, Los Angeles County,
- Officer Tony Zeppetella, 27, Oceanside, Calif,
- Officer Daniel Howard Golden, 27, Huntsville, Ala,
And Dozens More…

borrowed from http://www.truthinourtime.com/2008/05/2 … legal.html

Last edited by Deadmonkiefart (2008-06-08 13:30:27)

Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|7128

pierro wrote:

Criminal: Illegal aliens commit crimes at a lower rate then citizens (your prison claim is BS)
Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/domestic … 1520080226

Verdict: Illegal immigrants are not a threat to public safety
No, your claims are BS.  There's no way of even knowing the exact number of illegals in the country; you can't poll them!  Therefore, there's no way of knowing what percentage of illegals commit crimes.    Not only did that article not describe how the study was conducted; it did not specify what type of crimes.  That "statistic" was about as vague as it could be.  Maybe,illegals commit less total crimes, including misdemeanors, but there is no way that they commit less felonies.  Furthermore, your claim that illegals commit less crimes than regular citizens  doesn't even make sense.  I live in Southern California.  I have friends that have been killed by drunk illegal aliens.  I don't have any friends who have been killed by legal citizens.  I know people who have been robbed and I know people who have had their houses broken into by illegals.  My dad bought a car from a guy who had been attacked by illegals on several occasions, on his own property.  So don't you tell me that they commit less crimes than your average us citizen.  You have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

pierro wrote:

National Security: None of the 9/11 hijackers snuck into the country…need I say more
Source: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=754770
Oh, ok.  Since they didn't before, we shouldn't worry about them doing now.  That make so much sense.  Lets just wait for something to happen before we fix this massive gaping hole in our security. Un-Fucking-Believable. 

pierro wrote:

Helathcare system:
-Illegal immigrants are “not a burden” on American healthcare and actually use the healthcare system less then legal immigrants
Sources: http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCr … SN26407393

Verdict: Illegal immigrants are not a significant burden on the healthcare system
First of all, it was "llegal Latino immigrants do not cause a drag on the U.S. health care system".  Second of all, yes they are.  You can bring up all of the vague statistcal studies that you want.  There will always be conflicting statistics, but when I have to go to the hospital and I see an old man with a heart attack dying, in the middle of the line after waiting behind 30 illegal immigrants, I can't believe you.  I don't even care.  I have to wait for 2-5 hours every time I go to the hospital, and 80% of the people in front of me don't even speak english.  They are usually in when one of their7 + children have a tummy ache.  That's wrong.  I have to pay taxes for this.  I should probably stop typing before I have a hear attack and
die in a fucking line.
PureFodder
Member
+225|6708
9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused
by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ … dt.01.html
We have a winner.

Remember that the government works for your boss, not you. Suppression of your wages is a VERY good thing for them, in fact, it's half of the point of NAFTA. While illegal immigration remains a gold mine for US business, illegal immigration will stay.

oh, and converting to universal healthcare should save hundreds of billions of dollars based on every other nationalised healthcare system in the world. Last time I checked, saving hundreds of billions of dollars a year was a good thing.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6827|North Carolina

pierro wrote:

purefodder wrote:

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused
by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ … dt.01.html
We have a winner.

Remember that the government works for your boss, not you. Suppression of your wages is a VERY good thing for them, in fact, it's half of the point of NAFTA. While illegal immigration remains a gold mine for US business, illegal immigration will stay
-Your source is Lou Dobbs

Purefodder wrote:

oh, and converting to universal healthcare should save hundreds of billions of dollars based on every other nationalised healthcare system in the world. Last time I checked, saving hundreds of billions of dollars a year was a good thing.
-The real criticism of the private healthcare system is that billions are spent trying to figure out ways not to treat you…the US spends 31% of all medical dollars in "administration" while an “average” country with a non-private healthcare system spends 17% (i.e. Canada). This means that the United States wastes approximately 14% of its healthcare budget. With an annual budget of 2.26 trillion, that means 316 billion (or slightly more then $1000 per person per year) is wasted yearly because we have private healthcare...so that's true

Sources:
http://www.canadians.org/publications/C … icare.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_car … ted_States
Well, suppression of wages is very much happening in many trades due to illegal immigration, so wouldn't it be logical to project that the money saved from socialized healthcare would be lost by illegals that would use it who don't pay into it?

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