Too many times the majority of players will not even try to capture a flag. Their only interest is points. I would suggest a multiplier like the commander. Say 2 times the points for squad members and 1.5 times the points for lone wolves. Just a thought.
I agree, however I think if your a lonewolf, you should only get 1/2 the points people in squads get. The other half of your points should be given to the squad that ends the map with the highest points.
I also think that a squad should stick together! If your squad sticks together, you should get higher team points.
I also think that a squad should stick together! If your squad sticks together, you should get higher team points.
ita annoyin playin wit ppl hu just want points, maybe they shud try working ina squad its a lot more fun. unless the rest of the squad just want points and dont work 2gether...
First of all, see that lovely SEARCH button on the top... guess what it's for?
Second, the easiest and fastest way in the game to get points (besides being in a plane or a chopper) is to cap flags and fight around them. Get Neutralize/Cap/Defend/Heal-Revive-Supply and kill enemy resistance.
Third, giving multipliers for being in a squad is only going to make it worse. It's hard enough to find a decent squad already, if you make multipliers everybody is going to join a squad and run around lonewolfing while wasting your squad space. This will make decent squad leaders either locking their squads or constantly kicking people instead of actually playing.
Four, lonewolfs are under-rated, you may think that they're a waste of time and space, however a good sniper can defend a base 75% of the time unless there is a squad of >4 people or an armored vehicle. Also a decent pilot can defend multiple bases from being captured by the enemy. Also remember that all kills count towards tickets. Those plane/chopper pilots that rack up 50-100 kills per game probably did more ticket work than your best squad.
Second, the easiest and fastest way in the game to get points (besides being in a plane or a chopper) is to cap flags and fight around them. Get Neutralize/Cap/Defend/Heal-Revive-Supply and kill enemy resistance.
Third, giving multipliers for being in a squad is only going to make it worse. It's hard enough to find a decent squad already, if you make multipliers everybody is going to join a squad and run around lonewolfing while wasting your squad space. This will make decent squad leaders either locking their squads or constantly kicking people instead of actually playing.
Four, lonewolfs are under-rated, you may think that they're a waste of time and space, however a good sniper can defend a base 75% of the time unless there is a squad of >4 people or an armored vehicle. Also a decent pilot can defend multiple bases from being captured by the enemy. Also remember that all kills count towards tickets. Those plane/chopper pilots that rack up 50-100 kills per game probably did more ticket work than your best squad.
Don't be a punkmister!First of all, see that lovely SEARCH button on the top... guess what it's for?
A lonewolf is a waste, period! Being a sniper is no excuse for being one either.
If Heli and plane pilots get into a single squad than the commander could issue an attack order on an area and they could all respond.
A commander can not issue orders to people no in squads!
As a commader, I have been tempted to arty large groups of lonewolves after just about begging them to get into squads!
Anyway you want to cut it, a team the that works in squads will always kick butt on a team of lonewolves!
i like being in a squad. but for arguments sake, and it happened many many times, having the ability to play lonewolf at times saved me from having to constantly press Page Down from some morron commander that keeps asking me to go attack some remote position all across the damn map. I've lots of hours as a commander and i understand the frustration that comes with not being able to control what everyone does. But, the beautiful thing about this game is that it supports many playing styles and sometimes i want to run around alone without a bunch of nimrods following me or another one telling me what to do.
Squads and team work is what this game was designed around, PERIOD! If you have a group of guys that "squad up" and follow the commanders orders (if the commander has a clue as to what is going on) they will 9 times out of 10 walk the dog on a group of guys wondering around "lonewolfing". My very best round was 224 points and I did what ever the commander sent me to do, that is because with his scan ability he knows where the enemy is and when they will be there. He can send a order to defend a cap point before the enemy even arrives etc...
As far as the multiplier goes, IMO it is not a good idea simply because you would have everyone squading up doing what ever the hell they want to anyways! Atleast right now people for the most part that squad up atleast have somewhat of an idea what this game is really about. TEAMWORK
As far as the multiplier goes, IMO it is not a good idea simply because you would have everyone squading up doing what ever the hell they want to anyways! Atleast right now people for the most part that squad up atleast have somewhat of an idea what this game is really about. TEAMWORK
Last edited by EVIL_STYX (2006-02-27 22:23:33)
yeah but the problem is they dont i go commander a lot and once i am i tell my whole team to join a squad but most of them dont it really pisses me off cause they dont have a clue what is happing
and if a team mate is in a chopper or a plane they can give cover fire they can still work as a team even if in a chopper plane ect
and if a team mate is in a chopper or a plane they can give cover fire they can still work as a team even if in a chopper plane ect
Last edited by the-lanky-one (2006-02-27 22:31:16)
Sounds like a good idea to me. Only problem I see, is everyone will just join squads but still not follow orders.
They could make it so if the commander sent an order like "hold this position" and your squad does, the whole team would get bonus "Team Points" for doing just that.
Or
If your squad runs around the map (waiting for commaders orders) in semi-close formation killing, capping and defending flags your squad would get extra bonus "Team Points".
I think this would help keep the squads working together and keep people from joining squads and running off to do their own thing.
Or
If your squad runs around the map (waiting for commaders orders) in semi-close formation killing, capping and defending flags your squad would get extra bonus "Team Points".
I think this would help keep the squads working together and keep people from joining squads and running off to do their own thing.
No... you know whats really annoying? When people think that everyone should play like them. Get over yourself. Don't try to make it seem like whatever you say or do should be done by everyone or they will be penalized for doing so. lol. Its hard to imagine how some people think, you know? Wait... you don't.
F.Rabshaw, ROTFLMAO! With over 160hrs (almost 1/3 of your time in battle) being a lonewolf, what else would we expect a person like you to say!
Go Rambo!!!!
Go Rambo!!!!
Maybe you're too stupid to understand the point of my post. Yes, you are. It's okay pal, I'll break it down for you.-=S8M=-Phoenix wrote:
F.Rabshaw, ROTFLMAO! With over 160hrs (almost 1/3 of your time in battle) being a lonewolf, what else would we expect a person like you to say!
Go Rambo!!!!
Topic creators idea in a nutshell - Everyone should play the way I want... or be punished for it.
Get that? Probably not, but maybe if you try, You'll see.
Now, if you have begun to grasp that concept, do you think it is a bit narrowminded to think like this? Actually, I wouldn't expect you to grasp anything above what you could find on anyones bf2s.com player stats page, as the first thing you did was run to it to try to insult me. Real original, kid.
Last edited by F.Rabshaw (2006-02-28 12:03:58)
Wow Rabshaw, a little testy are we... I think the point of this thread is to brainstorm a way to reward team players, playing in a squad based game.
Hi All!
Well, I don't think that it's actually possible to develop efficient algorithm to determine quality of a squad. What criteria should we use? Proximity? Doesn't make much sense... Especially for assault squads. Imagine your squad leader getting killed all the time, because he wants to stay close to his squad. Very good idea.
Having said that, I think we should actually PROMOTE lone wolves. I know it sounds stupid, but will keep stat padders out of squads. Think again - why teamplay in BF2 sucks? Because it takes few servers and dozens of squads to find real TEAM. Why? Because people join squads just to have VoIP feature and still play as lone wolves. Give points for being lone wolf and only people interested in a teamplay would form squads.
Correct me if I'm wrong. And please, call me n00b if you want. I've just started. I don't mind.
Well, I don't think that it's actually possible to develop efficient algorithm to determine quality of a squad. What criteria should we use? Proximity? Doesn't make much sense... Especially for assault squads. Imagine your squad leader getting killed all the time, because he wants to stay close to his squad. Very good idea.
Having said that, I think we should actually PROMOTE lone wolves. I know it sounds stupid, but will keep stat padders out of squads. Think again - why teamplay in BF2 sucks? Because it takes few servers and dozens of squads to find real TEAM. Why? Because people join squads just to have VoIP feature and still play as lone wolves. Give points for being lone wolf and only people interested in a teamplay would form squads.
Correct me if I'm wrong. And please, call me n00b if you want. I've just started. I don't mind.
Rab, after 44 years on this earth, I have run into a few people with your level of sarcasm and paranoia, its funny at best. The topic is about how to make team play better like DawidBuchwald and others have pointed out. Letting you paranoia pass through your keyboard is not very healthy. Lighten up, not everyone is out to get you!
Keep this in mind if you play as a lonewolfe, a commander can not issue orders or warrnings to you! So if you find yourself getting pounded by friendly arty, O-well!
If you guys will remember when EA./Dice first introduced this game, it was team play they were promoting.
DawidBuchwald, your right it does take a few server to find one that has groups that want to play as teams and not lonewoves. What I do is when I find one I take note of the time and who the major players are. Then I add that server to my favorites. It is those servers I go to first when I want to do some gaming. It doesn't always work out, but your odds are better!
Keep this in mind if you play as a lonewolfe, a commander can not issue orders or warrnings to you! So if you find yourself getting pounded by friendly arty, O-well!
If you guys will remember when EA./Dice first introduced this game, it was team play they were promoting.
DawidBuchwald, your right it does take a few server to find one that has groups that want to play as teams and not lonewoves. What I do is when I find one I take note of the time and who the major players are. Then I add that server to my favorites. It is those servers I go to first when I want to do some gaming. It doesn't always work out, but your odds are better!
what this game really needs is the ability to add players to your "friends" list... then you could see where they're playing and join them
I think the joy of belonging to a working squad is reward enough.
To assist finding a good server, what I do is find a server I like to play on (based on server settings, etc). Then I play there almost exclusively for weeks. Durning that time I get to know the other regulars. We develop respect and trust. Eventually we start forming squads and we kick-bootay. Since the game was released I've spent most of my time on roughly 3 servers. Win or lose, I almost always have a good experience with the people I play with.
To assist finding a good server, what I do is find a server I like to play on (based on server settings, etc). Then I play there almost exclusively for weeks. Durning that time I get to know the other regulars. We develop respect and trust. Eventually we start forming squads and we kick-bootay. Since the game was released I've spent most of my time on roughly 3 servers. Win or lose, I almost always have a good experience with the people I play with.
The rab post makes more sense than yours. . .-=S8M=-Phoenix wrote:
Rab, after 44 years on this earth, I have run into a few people with your level of sarcasm and paranoia, its funny at best. The topic is about how to make team play better like DawidBuchwald and others have pointed out. Letting you paranoia pass through your keyboard is not very healthy. Lighten up, not everyone is out to get you!
Keep this in mind if you play as a lonewolf, a commander can not issue orders or warrnings to you! So if you find yourself getting pounded by friendly arty, O-well!
If you guys will remember when EA./Dice first introduced this game, it was team play they were promoting.
DawidBuchwald, your right it does take a few server to find one that has groups that want to play as teams and not lonewoves. What I do is when I find one I take note of the time and who the major players are. Then I add that server to my favorites. It is those servers I go to first when I want to do some gaming. It doesn't always work out, but your odds are better!
For one "paranoia" - a laughable conclusion and utterly improper word use(!) considering the assumptions associated with it - to arrive at such.
(2) I find his post more direct and lacking anything associated with your other included misconception: “level of sarcasm.”
(He directly stated, in his opinion, that he thought poster was common and “stupid.”)
(3) It’s a forum - not an in-person face to face debate; and assuming a certain emotional coloring & content is almost always your mistake arising from ignorant assumptions about the “other.”
After 44 years on this earth, one would hope for more (1), from someone bothering us with the “lookey here . . . the oracle of wisdom acquired through mere aging - has spoken (2).” (The first part direct (1) - the latter sarcasm (2) - does thou comprehend, I am sincerely trying to educate you through illustration of a point).
Whatever. . . all one has to do is look at the HUD for a second - only dummies don’t - there’s a BIG RED CIRCLE with an ARTY ICON in the middle - when there is an artillery strike. Even lone-wolfs can do that, and the “arty your area” goes out to all - anyway(!)-=S8M=-Phoenix wrote:
Keep this in mind if you play as a lonewolf, a commander can not issue orders or warrnings to you! So if you find yourself getting pounded by friendly arty, O-well!
Moving on from the absurd and possibly pointless. . .
I agree with rab. . . for too many reasons, it is a “stupid” conception at best (the multiplier).
NO you should not be awarded points (as multiplier) for merely joining a squad - it will not promote team-work.
Sometimes a few lone-wolfs (“rambo’s”) are the instrument of that rounds “win.” And low and behold a lone-wolf is already a member of your actual TEAM. A squad is a sub-unit of TEAM - just as much as lone-wolf in a plane or your “singular” not-in-a-squad commander is.
Your goals are not mine (or others) - so continue your server search until “you are happy” - with play that matches your “tastes.”
The “friends thing - buddy list” that is actually a good non-intrusive idea - as opposed to the stupid one - the origin of this thread.INCSOC wrote:
what this game really needs is the ability to add players to your "friends" list... then you could see where they're playing and join them
Being in a squad won’t magically make you a “good and effective” squad - why give you extra points - no reason other than an “IMO-I deserve it, because I play BF2 MY-WAY the way I think IT WAS MEANT TO BE PLAYED.” lol
Why does a sniper need to be in squad? Doesn’t.
The game (BF2) has other annoying features that can be countered by making/joining a squad. Auto-balanced to the losing side, near the end of a round, because you were a lone-wolf can sometimes be avoided by joining a squad or making one. This reason does not deserve a point multiplier either.
Points are necessary for personal game goals: badges, ribbons, unlocks, ranks, ratios, etc . . . which is in-line with the original objection “your goals are not mine - or others.”
But as far as servers go: I see nothing wrong with “squad only” servers - with an auto-kick after a minimum amount of time - if you don’t join a squad (not extra unearned points). And this would merely be an OPTION added to a server’s setup - for those who wish to entertain variants of BF2 game-play. I am all for variants as OPTIONs added to BF2 servers. Like some rounds on Karkand with an uncappable base; or some rounds are set up with longer spawn times for vehicles . . . when a strategic vehicle is taken out . . . the infantry can expect to be free of harassment from such for a certain amount of time. And other OPTIONS added to a servers setup as well, etc. . . and these would be OPTIONS only, meaning many servers would remain as-is, and others could be setup as variants giving players searching servers (or server lists) more options for varied-styles of game-play.
Multipliers would only promote what the oxymoronic “serious gamers” apparently detest - stat padding. Point multipliers are absurd - even as absurd as the current commander points awarding system.
When players are good whether or not in a squad - flags will fall. Sometimes a round does not even amount to whether or not flags are being capped or not. The round amounts to: who is getting killed far too often. Remember 1 death = 1 ticket lost. Some players in squads do no better at avoiding a death (ticket loss) than lone-wolfs do. Winning the round as an entire TEAM, not as a squad, is also a BF2 goal as well as: squad-play, on-line communication, commanding, points, lone-wolfs, etc, these are all individual elements of the overall TEAM.
BF2 is NOT ONLY about squad play - and that is an actual “period.” It is about what you want it to be - within the framework of what the game is capable of; ask EA/DICE and they will admit (have admitted) that if there is something that can be exploited (their choice of word - not mine) in the game - they themselves will migrate towards use of that. What can be exploited in BF2, but often isn’t in terms of squads? I see clans do this often (but not to often in non-clan squads): leaving/rejoining squads to keep an advanced spawn point active - because who cares who is the actual squad leader - it is an advanced spawn point. Splitting and multiplying an advanced spawn point into multiple squads too. This is an exploit that helps clans take strategic map points - and fast! It use is already there - for the exploiting - extra-points are not deserved when a game feature can be exploited.
There are other things that should have their points-awarded adjusted in BF2 when earned. The repair being one - it should be 2 not one, and should not matter whether a vehicle is occupied or not. It takes a long time to repair something for 1 measly point. It takes a medic a microsecond to throw down a pack and second for a player to pick it up (1 point). The current system is disproportionately awarding points for something quick and easy. And sometimes you spend 10-15 seconds repairing something and get NO POINTS.
TEAM-play will not get better EVEN if you made in-a squad mandatory. Only better players make better TEAMS. Better use of exploiting the current squad-system - its advanced spawn points - will make a better TEAM. This takes experience and learning. Point-multipliers will not induce an understanding of how to use this exploit properly.
I often have to OPT-out, leave the squad I was in, because the squad leader does not know how to communicate, lead, pick an appropriate advanced spawn point, go for the correct strategic map point, or leave/rejoin his own squad keeping an advanced spawn point active - all he does to me and the whole squad is get he, me and the other members killed over and over and over. . . until I hit leave and foot it alone, until I find other players doing something intelligent.
I could disagree more with the multiplier concept. You are already a member of an over-all team. You should now how to pay attention to the MAP, the HUD, arty-strikes, player positions, etc. . . You should no how to cap a flag. You should be able to count to fifteen (enemy re-spawn time, lol). You should LOOK at the current team list - not enough AT-kits played - re-spawn as AT. The main use of the squad is in FACT the use of it as an advanced spawn point (else you would have to spawn at a capped flag - you don’t) - not actual team-play - you’re already on a team - whether or not you like its current members.
The current system is fine (excepting options, that's right server-options, not mandates, that could be added to BF2). The multiplier concept is truly inane.
Last edited by topal63 (2006-03-01 12:00:14)
I agree. I think we've exhausted this topic
Its called Xfire...INCSOC wrote:
what this game really needs is the ability to add players to your "friends" list... then you could see where they're playing and join them
He meant integrated into. . . BF2, I thought that was obvious - guess I was wrong.
whew this one hell of a topic....i didnt realize u guys take this too damn seriously
Mr. Rab,
You obviously do NOT understand my post. It has nothing to do with how I play, merely facts. The vast majority of the time the team with the best squad play WINS. Like my original post says "multiplier like the commander". i.e. WINNING TEAM. Remember to the victor go the spoils.
You obviously do NOT understand my post. It has nothing to do with how I play, merely facts. The vast majority of the time the team with the best squad play WINS. Like my original post says "multiplier like the commander". i.e. WINNING TEAM. Remember to the victor go the spoils.
One thing that can be added since people are so "award/medal oriented" make new gold/silver/bronze medals for best squad per round. Or even best squad leader medal, one that would actually accept commander requests to attack a position or get repairs to assets. This could be an incentive to promote the teamwork concept.