Pages: 1

 

2008-06-12 21:01:29
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6951|Global Command
Having opened my eyes, at least enough to concede that there is some distant remote possibility that 9-11 was a crock designed to make Bush and his cronies rich off fear and oil money I couldn't help but stumble across some anti-status quo hate bush web feeds.

Point of  debate;
The proponents of man made global warming use apoplectic anecdotes to push their agenda. Neo cons seeking U.S. dominance over world good such as oil and coal cite Bin Laden as the Bogey man and extort billions and/or trillions from the public.

But... the are are only 4k dead American troops and a few hundred thousand assorted innocent victims, terrorists and sympathizers in Iraq.

If...the left succeeds in keeping drilling from happening and insists on turning ahead to bio-fuels millions may die of starvation and billions may be kept in or swept up in poverty as food prices skyrocket. The ME may in fact turn into a repeat of Vietnam after we pulled out and 3 million people were killed.

Which endeavor seems more casually evil, the announced withdraw from a field of battle and the insistence of greener technology at the expense of starving millions, or the competition with daddies unfinished business in Iraq and the capitalist plundering of every part of it?
2008-06-12 21:15:22
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6992|Portland, OR, USA
ATG...?  Is that you?!
2008-06-12 21:18:04
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6809

CommieChipmunk wrote:

ATG...?  Is that you?!
He went over the deep end a few months ago I think....



I used to enjoy reading your posts...now you sound like a crackpot
2008-06-12 21:44:32
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7023|132 and Bush

CommieChipmunk wrote:

ATG...?  Is that you?!
Are you a fan of Napoleon?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-06-12 21:47:56
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6766|tropical regions of london
http://www.medicinenet.com/schizophrenia/article.htm

Last edited by God Save the Queen (2008-06-12 21:57:02)

2008-06-12 21:50:40
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7023|132 and Bush

I want to know what the Neo's are doing that the rest of the world hasn't been doing since Mesopotamia.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-06-13 00:15:51
Fred[OZ75]
Jihad Jeep Driver
+19|7182|Perth, Western Australia

ATG wrote:

If...the left succeeds in keeping drilling from happening and insists on turning ahead to bio-fuels millions may die of starvation and billions may be kept in or swept up in poverty as food prices skyrocket. The ME may in fact turn into a repeat of Vietnam after we pulled out and 3 million people were killed.

Which endeavor seems more casually evil, the announced withdraw from a field of battle and the insistence of greener technology at the expense of starving millions, or the competition with daddies unfinished business in Iraq and the capitalist plundering of every part of it?
First the only place I can think you could be talking about in "the left succeeds in keeping drilling from happening" is Alaska... There isn't enough oil in Alaska to help the US or anyone else and "the left" hasn't stopped too much drilling anywhere else. I think Brazil has found a largish reserve recently no ones stopping them from drilling, drilling seems to be going ahead in the "the Gulf", actually besides Alaska where have "the Left" stopped any drilling?

We could just stick our heads in the sand and merrily go along until oil does in fact run out, how many millions (or billions) die then, the ultimate oil shock... isn't it better to start developing alternatives now?

The US has to leave Iraq sooner or latter, the US can't afford to stay in Iraq much longer.
2008-06-13 00:17:21
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6992|Portland, OR, USA

Fred[OZ75] wrote:

ATG wrote:

If...the left succeeds in keeping drilling from happening and insists on turning ahead to bio-fuels millions may die of starvation and billions may be kept in or swept up in poverty as food prices skyrocket. The ME may in fact turn into a repeat of Vietnam after we pulled out and 3 million people were killed.

Which endeavor seems more casually evil, the announced withdraw from a field of battle and the insistence of greener technology at the expense of starving millions, or the competition with daddies unfinished business in Iraq and the capitalist plundering of every part of it?
First the only place I can think you could be talking about in "the left succeeds in keeping drilling from happening" is Alaska... There isn't enough oil in Alaska to help the US or anyone else and "the left" hasn't stopped too much drilling anywhere else. I think Brazil has found a largish reserve recently no ones stopping them from drilling, drilling seems to be going ahead in the "the Gulf", actually besides Alaska where have "the Left" stopped any drilling?

We could just stick our heads in the sand and merrily go along until oil does in fact run out, how many millions (or billions) die then, the ultimate oil shock... isn't it better to start developing alternatives now?

The US has to leave Iraq sooner or latter, the US can't afford to stay in Iraq much longer.
Finally, someone who fucking sees it my way.

Well done good sir
2008-06-13 00:28:04
PureFodder
Member
+225|6708
If the coalition forces move out of Iraq at the Iraqis request then what happens is up to them. The issue shouldn't be up to reps or dems at all. It's the Iraqis country so surely it's up to them when we bugger off out of it. They are dying now anyway and the issues aren't being resolved. I'm unaware of any proposition that would actually solve the issue without resulting in more violence. Ar the moment there's still a predicted civil war if the coalition troops leave, despite years of security operations there. The only way anyone seems to see to avoid it is to keep hundreds of thousands of coalition troops/support personel and mercs there permanenetly. That would just cripple the US military and budget.

As far as drilling Alaska goes, all you get is a postponement of the same problems but additionally adding a whole load more pollution to the already problematic atmosphere.
2008-06-13 01:07:51
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6713|Éire
America is fighting over the last scraps like many other countries. I'd respect them more if they stopped pretending it was all for the benefit of the Iraqis/Vietnamese/Cubans/Panamanians/Afghanis and just said 'hey guys, we want oil and resources and we're prepared to rip up your country and kill many of your citizens to do it'.

In terms of the greater evil...the fact that the US chose to wade into the complex cultural and political house of cards that was Iraq and knock it to the ground makes them pretty much responsible for every death resulting from both the conflict itself and from all subsequent internal conflict that grows out of the ensuing quagmire.

Using the same logic in the OP one could look at all the deaths caused by American foreign policy since WW2 and decide that the world would be better off in the long run if America was destroyed and all Americans were killed. Sure millions of innocent people would die but potentially many more would be saved in the long run as a result.
2008-06-13 01:42:14
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6942|Πάϊ
Well ATG, I think it's wrong to compare one to another. The energy problem is a fact we cannot just dismiss. Sooner or later, Alaska or no Alaska, the oil will run out. The key is to make that huge transition form oil dependency to other power sources as harmlessly as possible for the economy and the people.

The Bush administration did not help in that respect, and I doubt Obama or McCain will be any different. But anyway, I don't see how you can compare the global energy problem with the actions of the neocons in their foreign policy. It's not the left's fault that oil is running out. Now, how it will be handled by them, that remains to be seen.
ƒ³
2008-06-14 02:22:04
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6528|eXtreme to the maX
Ignoring the politics if we just look at the arguments:

The conservatives want to keep drilling for more and fighting wars over the last scraps in the ME.
They want to continue burning fossil fuels at the same rate because this is what basically provides our standard of living and makes money for them.
To push their agendas the call anyone who believes in global warming a communist and any man who drives a Prius a homo.

The greens and lefties want to reduce or remove our dependence on oil and extricate ourselves from any more wars in the ME.
Believing global warming is a fact and oil will inevitably run out very soon they do get excited about the situation.

I know which side I'm on.
Fuck Israel
2008-06-14 08:22:36
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6868|The Land of Scott Walker
I have no problem transitioning to alternative energy, but right now there isn't one.  It's foolish to just leave a resource in the ground that we could tap instead of foreign oil.
2008-06-14 08:33:38
AutralianChainsaw
Member
+65|6621
Forget about ethanol..too costly to produce.

This is the future:

http://www.teslamotors.com/
2008-06-14 10:39:34
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6951|Global Command
What about the oil that could be drilled off California?
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/07 … _12_06.txt
2008-06-14 10:43:59
paul386
Member
+22|6668

Braddock wrote:

America is fighting over the last scraps like many other countries. I'd respect them more if they stopped pretending it was all for the benefit of the Iraqis/Vietnamese/Cubans/Panamanians/Afghanis and just said 'hey guys, we want oil and resources and we're prepared to rip up your country and kill many of your citizens to do it'.

In terms of the greater evil...the fact that the US chose to wade into the complex cultural and political house of cards that was Iraq and knock it to the ground makes them pretty much responsible for every death resulting from both the conflict itself and from all subsequent internal conflict that grows out of the ensuing quagmire.

Using the same logic in the OP one could look at all the deaths caused by American foreign policy since WW2 and decide that the world would be better off in the long run if America was destroyed and all Americans were killed. Sure millions of innocent people would die but potentially many more would be saved in the long run as a result.
You are clearly retarded.

In the US we identify the difference between the citizens and the government. I was hoping that you could do the same.

First the only place I can think you could be talking about in "the left succeeds in keeping drilling from happening" is Alaska... There isn't enough oil in Alaska to help the US or anyone else and "the left" hasn't stopped too much drilling anywhere else. I think Brazil has found a largish reserve recently no ones stopping them from drilling, drilling seems to be going ahead in the "the Gulf", actually besides Alaska where have "the Left" stopped any drilling?

We could just stick our heads in the sand and merrily go along until oil does in fact run out, how many millions (or billions) die then, the ultimate oil shock... isn't it better to start developing alternatives now?

The US has to leave Iraq sooner or latter, the US can't afford to stay in Iraq much longer.
How do you know how much oil is in Alaska?

This whole "energy independence" this is pure horse shit. The Japanese have no internal energy resources and they are doing just fine.

Alternative energy will come along, and it will be much better if free enterprise discovers it.

 

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