Genuine Jews: a matter of heritage or Religious commitment

2008-06-13 06:00:19

#1

sergeriver: Cowboy from Hell; +1,928|7180|Argentina

This week in Argentina the new president of the AMIA took the office and made a controversial statement. He said that true Jews are those who observe the Torah and follow its teachings in every aspect of their lives. It's the first time that an Orthodox Jew wins the election for AMIA president.

Here's a link, although it's in Spanish. http://www.lanacion.com.ar/edicionimpre … id=1020534

For those who don't speak Spanish, he basically said that people that don't follow strictly the teachings in the Torah aren't Jews. This, of course, started a huge controversy and made most of the Jewish Community in Argentina angry.

According to this guy if your parents are Jews, but you don't practice the Religion strictly, you aren't a Jew.

What do you think? Is being a Jew just a matter of heritage or is this guy right and it's a matter of Religious commitment?

2008-06-13 06:18:54

#2

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6951|Global Command

Ah, the classic question; is Jew a religion or a race?

He is right, imo.
I was born a Mormon, I don't practice so I am not a Mormon.
If you were born to a Jewish family but don't believe or care about the faith you are Argentinan.

2008-06-13 06:20:31

#3

sergeriver: Cowboy from Hell; +1,928|7180|Argentina

ATG wrote:
Ah, the classic question; is Jew a religion or a race?

He is right, imo.
I was born a Mormon, I don't practice so I am not a Mormon.
If you were born to a Jewish family but don't believe or care about the faith you are Argentinan.

There's a difference. You don't have a Mormon last name, do you?

2008-06-13 07:27:47

#4

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6951|Global Command

sergeriver wrote:
ATG wrote:
Ah, the classic question; is Jew a religion or a race?

He is right, imo.
I was born a Mormon, I don't practice so I am not a Mormon.
If you were born to a Jewish family but don't believe or care about the faith you are Argentinan.
There's a difference. You don't have a Mormon last name, do you?

Depends. Some would say yes. I say getting caught up in religious pagentry is a waste of time.

Jews tend to look at their religion as a race, or ethnic thing. It shows a basic lack of understanding.

Say a African converts to being a Jew, is he then no longer black? Is he now just a Jew?

2008-06-13 07:29:34

#5

sergeriver: Cowboy from Hell; +1,928|7180|Argentina

ATG wrote:
sergeriver wrote:
ATG wrote:
Ah, the classic question; is Jew a religion or a race?

He is right, imo.
I was born a Mormon, I don't practice so I am not a Mormon.
If you were born to a Jewish family but don't believe or care about the faith you are Argentinan.
There's a difference. You don't have a Mormon last name, do you?
Depends. Some would say yes. I say getting caught up in religious pagentry is a waste of time.

Jews tend to look at their religion as a race, or ethnic thing. It shows a basic lack of understanding.

Say a African converts to being a Jew, is he then no longer black? Is he now just a Jew?

Ok, I see where you're coming from. Let me ask you a question. What kind of last name is Spielberg?

2008-06-13 07:32:13

#6

argo4: Stand and Deliver; +86|6355|United States

sergeriver wrote:
ATG wrote:
sergeriver wrote:

There's a difference. You don't have a Mormon last name, do you?
Depends. Some would say yes. I say getting caught up in religious pagentry is a waste of time.

Jews tend to look at their religion as a race, or ethnic thing. It shows a basic lack of understanding.

Say a African converts to being a Jew, is he then no longer black? Is he now just a Jew?
Ok, I see where you're coming from. Let me ask you a question. What kind of last name is Spielberg?

German

2008-06-13 07:32:56

#7

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6951|Global Command

sergeriver wrote:
ATG wrote:
sergeriver wrote:

There's a difference. You don't have a Mormon last name, do you?
Depends. Some would say yes. I say getting caught up in religious pagentry is a waste of time.

Jews tend to look at their religion as a race, or ethnic thing. It shows a basic lack of understanding.

Say a African converts to being a Jew, is he then no longer black? Is he now just a Jew?
Ok, I see where you're coming from. Let me ask you a question. What kind of last name is Spielberg?

The kind that belongs to a rich man.

2008-06-13 07:33:38

#8

Lotta_Drool: Spit; +350|6605|Ireland

If your parents are Jews and you don't practice the religion that would make you half Jewish. This is in the same following that Obama is a McHalf Black Half White Quarter Muslim in a Christianity seed bun.

Last edited by Lotta_Drool (2008-06-13 07:34:07)

2008-06-13 07:34:50

#9

Lisik: Member; +74|6923|Israel

The guy is right.

2008-06-13 07:36:45

#10

Braddock: Agitator; +916|6713|Éire

Lisik wrote:
The guy is right.

So everyone not strictly following the Torah in their everyday lives is therefore not a Jew and not entitled to automatic citizenship in Israel?

2008-06-13 07:41:12

#11

Lisik: Member; +74|6923|Israel

They got citizenship but in passport they don't marked as jews.

2008-06-13 07:42:31

#12

sergeriver: Cowboy from Hell; +1,928|7180|Argentina

My dad is Jew, my mother isn't and I don't practice any Religion. Nevertheles, by heritage, I'm half Jew. The thing you don't practice Judaism doesn't mean you are no longer a Jew, coz you have it in your blood. If not, then explain why there are so many deseases common to Ashkenazi Jews and or Jewish individual with eastern European origin. Because they go to the Temple? I don't think so.

2008-06-13 07:43:55

#13

sergeriver: Cowboy from Hell; +1,928|7180|Argentina

Lisik wrote:
The guy is right.

So, there's no such thing as Jewish heritage?

2008-06-13 07:44:55

#14

sergeriver: Cowboy from Hell; +1,928|7180|Argentina

Lisik wrote:
They got citizenship but in passport they don't marked as jews.

How do they know if you strictly follow the Torah?

2008-06-13 07:46:33

#15

Lisik: Member; +74|6923|Israel

sergeriver i don't care who was your father and who you are. According to Torah if you not follow its teachings in every aspect of their lives you are not jew. Ever heard of word goy?

2008-06-13 07:46:48

#16

Braddock: Agitator; +916|6713|Éire

Lisik wrote:
They got citizenship but in passport they don't marked as jews.

But aliyah is granted on the grounds of being 'Jewish', so is it an ethnicity or a religion? Going by what this Argentinian guy is saying aliyah should only be granted to those practicing the teachings of the Torah and everyone else is not a real Jew.

2008-06-13 07:47:48

#17

konfusion: mostly afk; +480|6972|CH/BR - in UK

Braddock wrote:
Lisik wrote:
The guy is right.
So everyone not strictly following the Torah in their everyday lives is therefore not a Jew and not entitled to automatic citizenship in Israel?

Please don't bring up Israel ><
I agree that you aren't technically Jewish if you don't follow the Torah - and I don't see Jews as a race.

-kon

2008-06-13 07:48:04

#18

Lisik: Member; +74|6923|Israel

sergeriver wrote:
Lisik wrote:
They got citizenship but in passport they don't marked as jews.
How do they know if you strictly follow the Torah?

They dont know.

2008-06-13 07:49:07

#19

sergeriver: Cowboy from Hell; +1,928|7180|Argentina

Lisik wrote:
sergeriver i don't care who was your father and who you are. According to Torah if you not follow its teachings in every aspect of their lives you are not jew. Ever heard of word goy?

Yes, I'm married to one.

2008-06-13 07:50:38

#20

sergeriver: Cowboy from Hell; +1,928|7180|Argentina

Lisik wrote:
sergeriver wrote:
Lisik wrote:
They got citizenship but in passport they don't marked as jews.
How do they know if you strictly follow the Torah?
They dont know.

So, technically I could claim I practice the religion and then I should get my passport and citizeship with the Jew status.

2008-06-13 07:50:44

#21

Lisik: Member; +74|6923|Israel

sergeriver wrote:
Lisik wrote:
sergeriver i don't care who was your father and who you are. According to Torah if you not follow its teachings in every aspect of their lives you are not jew. Ever heard of word goy?
Yes, I'm married to one.

Not that you just married one, you are goy by yourself same as me.

2008-06-13 07:51:38

#22

sergeriver: Cowboy from Hell; +1,928|7180|Argentina

Lisik wrote:
sergeriver wrote:
Lisik wrote:
sergeriver i don't care who was your father and who you are. According to Torah if you not follow its teachings in every aspect of their lives you are not jew. Ever heard of word goy?
Yes, I'm married to one.
Not that you just married one, you are goy by yourself same as me.

Well, according to all the relatives who practice the Religion I am.

Last edited by sergeriver (2008-06-13 07:53:30)

2008-06-13 07:52:05

#23

Braddock: Agitator; +916|6713|Éire

konfusion wrote:
Braddock wrote:
Lisik wrote:
The guy is right.
So everyone not strictly following the Torah in their everyday lives is therefore not a Jew and not entitled to automatic citizenship in Israel?
Please don't bring up Israel ><
I agree that you aren't technically Jewish if you don't follow the Torah - and I don't see Jews as a race.

-kon

Well race is a very important issue when it comes to the automatic right to citizenship in Israel. Palestinians aren't entitled to it and Israel does not, as far as I know, process applicants on the grounds of how often they go to temple or how well they know the Torah...that would suggest they consider 'Jewishness' an ethnicity.

2008-06-13 07:54:49

#24

sergeriver: Cowboy from Hell; +1,928|7180|Argentina

Braddock wrote:
konfusion wrote:
Braddock wrote:

So everyone not strictly following the Torah in their everyday lives is therefore not a Jew and not entitled to automatic citizenship in Israel?
Please don't bring up Israel ><
I agree that you aren't technically Jewish if you don't follow the Torah - and I don't see Jews as a race.

-kon
Well race is a very important issue when it comes to the automatic right to citizenship in Israel. Palestinians aren't entitled to it and Israel does not, as far as I know, process applicants on the grounds of how often they go to temple or how well they know the Torah...that would suggest they consider 'Jewishness' an ethnicity.

My entire family and myself were offered many times the Israeli citizenship. And I don't practice. Maybe they don't know that or just don't care.

2008-06-13 09:37:49

#25

The#1Spot: Member; +105|6962|byah

Making fun of jews is not racist even though a great deal of people think so. Any person in the world can be one unlike a white man being black and a black man being white.

BF2S Forums Genuine Jews: a matter of heritage or Religious commitment

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