BF2S Forums Guantanamo Detainees Win Their Case

Dilbert_X wrote:

Major Guantanamo setback for Bush
Foreign suspects held in Guantanamo Bay have the right to challenge their detention in US civilian courts, the US Supreme Court has ruled.

In a major legal setback for the Bush administration, the court overturned by five to four a ruling upholding a 2006 law which removed such rights.
It is not clear if the ruling will lead to prompt hearings for the detainees.
Some 270 men are held at the US naval base, on suspicion of terrorism or links to al-Qaeda and the Taleban.
US President George W Bush said he would abide by the court's ruling even if he did not agree with it.
Human rights groups have welcomed the move, Amnesty International saying it was an "essential step forward towards the restoration of the rule of law".

Brushing aside the government's arguments that the detainees were enemy combatants being held at a time of war outside the US, the court said they had "the constitutional privilege of habeas corpus".
This is the right of detainees under the US constitution to be heard by an independent judge.
Justice Anthony Kennedy said: "The laws and constitution are designed to survive, and remain in force, in extraordinary times. Liberty and security can be reconciled; and in our system they are reconciled within the framework of the law."

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7451139.stm

Well thank God for a reasonably independent judiciary.

Where to now for Gitmo?

Where to now? Probably back on the streets for their next attempt at killing GI's, women and children etc...........We can't deny them the right to do that now can we??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maulvi_Abdul_Ghaffar

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7451139.stm

Well thank God for a reasonably independent judiciary.

Where to now for Gitmo?

Where to now? Probably back on the streets for their next attempt at killing GI's, women and children etc...........We can't deny them the right to do that now can we??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maulvi_Abdul_Ghaffar

Suck it up lowing. Be glad that you live in a democratic, Western nation where the law of the land still holds sway...just about!

You can spout what you want, but you can not deny the truth of what I have just posted................so I noticed

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Where to now? Probably back on the streets for their next attempt at killing GI's, women and children etc...........We can't deny them the right to do that now can we??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maulvi_Abdul_Ghaffar

Suck it up lowing. Be glad that you live in a democratic, Western nation where the law of the land still holds sway...just about!

You can spout what you want, but you can not deny the truth of what I have just posted................so I noticed

What are you on about? If you capture someone you should process them the way you would process either a prisoner of war or a prisoner of the state and give them the Internationally accepted rights that they are entitled to; that way you can either get a respected and recognised conviction or release them if they are innocent. In Guantanamo you hold them indefinitely and do what you want with them, away from the prying eye of the media...who else does that, ummmm? FARC, Al Qaeda, IRA (when they were active), Hamas...nice gang you're in there.

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Suck it up lowing. Be glad that you live in a democratic, Western nation where the law of the land still holds sway...just about!

You can spout what you want, but you can not deny the truth of what I have just posted................so I noticed

What are you on about? If you capture someone you should process them the way you would process either a prisoner of war or a prisoner of the state and give them the Internationally accepted rights that they are entitled to; that way you can either get a respected and recognised conviction or release them if they are innocent. In Guantanamo you hold them indefinitely and do what you want with them, away from the prying eye of the media...who else does that, ummmm? FARC, Al Qaeda, IRA (when they were active), Hamas...nice gang you're in there.

Yea, we should just do what our enemies do to our POW's.  The US could videotape beheadings and then we could drag their bodies through the streets chanting "Death to Al Quieda".  /sarcasm

Braddock wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Braddock wrote:

What are you on about? If you capture someone you should process them the way you would process either a prisoner of war or a prisoner of the state and give them the Internationally accepted rights that they are entitled to; that way you can either get a respected and recognised conviction or release them if they are innocent. In Guantanamo you hold them indefinitely and do what you want with them, away from the prying eye of the media...who else does that, ummmm? FARC, Al Qaeda, IRA (when they were active), Hamas...nice gang you're in there.

Yea, we should just do what our enemies do to our POW's.  The US could videotape beheadings and then we could drag their bodies through the streets chanting "Death to Al Quieda".  /sarcasm

You could do that. You don't seem overly concerned with staying on moral high ground so I don't see why not.

Actually the US has so what are you complaing about?

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Where to now? Probably back on the streets for their next attempt at killing GI's, women and children etc...........We can't deny them the right to do that now can we??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maulvi_Abdul_Ghaffar

Suck it up lowing. Be glad that you live in a democratic, Western nation where the law of the land still holds sway...just about!

You can spout what you want, but you can not deny the truth of what I have just posted................so I noticed

If it's so true, take them to court and prove it. Case closed, nobody complaining about human rights etc. If it can't be proved then they shouldn't be there.

PureFodder wrote:

It's nice to see the US begin to catch up with the rest of the civillised world.

Lotta_Drool wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Plz.. The United States has done more for freedom in two hundred years than the rest of the world has done in two thousand. Try to think beyond this little fart we call our lifetime on a more historically accurate scale.

Go look up US human rights abuses and compare it to Western Europe. The US is still playing catchup.

Freedoms like abolition of slavery, where the US trailed Europe by 30 years, civil rights again trailed behind Europe, Rights of homosexuals, still not caught up. Worker rights, consistently trailed decades behind Europe. In fact, I can only think of freedom of speech where the US actually lead the world.

The historically accurate scale appears to show the US playing a lot of catch-up rather than leading the way.

Yeah, that whole Nazism thing didn't violate any human rights and Communism gave everyone the equality they longed for.

Be grateful for the bubble of blissful ignorance you live in, because reality sometimes chaffs.

Huge numbers of Europeans died trying to stop the Nazis. Communism came out of the Soviet Union not Europe. At the most you can dump these things on Germany. Italy and Greece can't be mocked by Americans as the US was heavlily supporting the facism there.
After WWII most of Europe gave up on previous warmongering, while the US busied itself ovethrowing South American democracies and replacing them with brutal mass murdering dictatorships and trying to kill most of everyone in Indochina. Again, Europe has NOT got a lovely past The British Empire was horribly barbaric, but the horrible bits are futher in the past than Americas.

Again, my statement that the US is playing catch-up is historically accurate.

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Germany is not part of Euro, Spain, Facists in Italy?  America was created by Europeans and Europeans that fled their countries due to human rights violations.

oh look, your floating away.

As I said, the US heavily supported facism in Europe even after WWII, making them just as bad. Once the facism had been removed, showing an increase in freedom and rights in Europe, the US continued to support and put into power brutal mass murdering dictatorships. The US continued to do this AFTER Europe had stopped, hence the US was playing catch-up.

It is true that America was partially created by europeans fleeing pursecution, but they then went on to all but completely wipe out the local populace, showing their great commitment to human rights and freedom.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Major Guantanamo setback for Bush
Foreign suspects held in Guantanamo Bay have the right to challenge their detention in US civilian courts, the US Supreme Court has ruled.

In a major legal setback for the Bush administration, the court overturned by five to four a ruling upholding a 2006 law which removed such rights.
It is not clear if the ruling will lead to prompt hearings for the detainees.
Some 270 men are held at the US naval base, on suspicion of terrorism or links to al-Qaeda and the Taleban.
US President George W Bush said he would abide by the court's ruling even if he did not agree with it.
Human rights groups have welcomed the move, Amnesty International saying it was an "essential step forward towards the restoration of the rule of law".

Brushing aside the government's arguments that the detainees were enemy combatants being held at a time of war outside the US, the court said they had "the constitutional privilege of habeas corpus".
This is the right of detainees under the US constitution to be heard by an independent judge.
Justice Anthony Kennedy said: "The laws and constitution are designed to survive, and remain in force, in extraordinary times. Liberty and security can be reconciled; and in our system they are reconciled within the framework of the law."

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7451139.stm

Well thank God for a reasonably independent judiciary.

Where to now for Gitmo?

This isnt a setback for the Bush Administration, as this media outlet's opinion puts it.

It's a setback for the citizen's of the United States of America. Being naturally born in the United States grants you US Constitutional rights and privileges. This sets a precedence that all illegal-immigrants and non-combatants, that are not covered by the Third Geneva Convention, that can and will have more rights and privileges than a naturally born US citizen.


The United States Constitution specifically included the English common law procedure in the Suspension Clause, located in Article One, Section 9. It states:
“The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it.”

Pro tip: If you see billowing clouds of dust and diesel, followed by hundreds, if not thousands of US Marines and or US Army solders coming over the hill... be prepared to encounter the greatest military forces the world has ever seen in history. If your not prepared to confront that challenge you better run for your life. Literally.

These detainees' are captured "non-combatants".  My God have mercy on them, but they do not rate or deserve the US Constructional Rights, as I do, a US citizen and former member of the US Armed Forces. You can bitch and express your opinion till the server runs out of drive space, I dont care. This is complete fucking bullshit.

Sure compare the militia men of the Revolutionary War with these guys, try me. You'll be proven wrong.

I agree something has to be done with these detainees. They are not the responsibility of the US Federal Judicial system, "Foreign Policy" makers, or the tax-paying citizens. Fly them back to their countries where they were detained, whether that be Afghanistan, Iraq, Turkey, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, or it does not matter. The US Military in charge of them should work this out and get them out of Gitmo. Period.

Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton, Samuel Adams, John Adams, John Hancock, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry, Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery, Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott, William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris, Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark, Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross, George Read, Caesar Rodney, Thomas McKean, Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton, George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton, William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn, Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton, Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton are all rolling over in their graves hearing this abomination.

JahManRed wrote:

@(T)eflon(S)hadow
So anyone who isn't an American citizen can and should be locked up for 5 years with no trial or charges on the whim of a faceless intelligence officer sitting at a desk in the Pentagon? You think this is ok?

So you would have no argument if say, Russia started abducting American citizens and flying them across the world to be locked up with no charges lodged because a Russian intelligence officer put an X beside their name?

Or are you going to tell me its OK if only USA does this because your CIA is so morally pure?

Highly plausible, every intelligence agency in the world participates in detaining individuals for the purposes of information gathering. Just media outlets and investigators don't follow them everywhere waiting for them to do something out of place.

I am on topic. We are debating Gito. I am talking about Gito. Explain to me why I am off topic? Or is anything you don't agree with off topic?

Ok so we have established that according to you it is only ok for the USA to practice rendition but if anyother country does it, its an act of war.

Thanks you answered my question.

Now can you explain to me why the USA is the only country you feel should be allowed to do this?