BF2S Forums Yay Imperialism!

JahManRed wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

You're just jealous becasue Ireland has never invaded a country, rebuilt it, and installed a puppet government.

Long way to go before its rebuilt. Its being blown apart every day. New wave of fighters on the front line after a short rest period in jail, heroin output trebled, coalition troops being killed every day...........Puppet government voicing their concerns and throwing the dummy out of the pram. Long, long way to go.
Ireland is happy knowing she keeps herself to herself and doesn't appoint herself the worlds police man invading countries for oil thank you very much. Probably why the economy is going from strength to strength instead of down the toilet as taxes and homeland infrastructure money is set alight in a far off country.

CameronPoe wrote:

FEOS wrote:

So if you want a given country to behave in a given way, then you're imperialistic? I guess every country in the world that has relations with any other country in the world is imperialistic then.

There ain't many nations whose influencing of other countries extends to the stationing of troops, writing of laws to be passed at parliament, the desire to have control over airspace/territorial waters and the desire to have immunity from prosecution for whatever crimes they might commit....

FEOS wrote:

Oh, but that's not what you said, now is it?

There are German troops stationed in the US...does that mean that Germany is imperialistic WRT the US?

Drafting of a law that doesn't pass parliament isn't exactly imperialistic.

As I said: Desiring something and imposing it on another sovereign nation against their will are two different things.

As it is, Iraq's government accepts what they want and reject what they don't. Sounds pretty sovereign to me.

CameronPoe wrote:

The Merriam-Webster definition of the term Imperialism is quite clear on this.
Imperialism is not a preserve of the US of course - Russia for instance does similar right now in the Caucasus, many European nations are actively influencing the political structure and inner workings of Afghanistan. There are plenty of examples of general western imperialism and imperialism elsewhere.

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Wow, you're good.

CameronPoe wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Which is what I said before: based on the definition you provided, any country that wants any other country to do anything--regardless of whether they act on that desire or not--is imperialistic. Even Ireland.

The government of the Republic of Ireland has not resorted to violence to beat another nation into submission. It hasn't ever removed the government of another nation or disbanded the military of another country. It hasn't hand-written laws to be passed in other countries parliaments. It hasn't actually acquired non-Irish territory by force (US - Philippines, Puerto Rico; Germany - Poland, Czech Republic; Japan - Manchuria). It hasn't stationed troops in another nation without a UN mandate. It hasn't engaged in gunboat diplomacy. It hasn't planted politicians in the political superstructures of another nation.

A certain level of imperialistic action needs to be surpassed otherwise the use of the term becomes meaningless. There's a MASSIVE difference between wanting immunity from prosecution and asking Britain kindly if they'd close their nuclear reprocessing plant on the Irish Sea.

FEOS wrote:

Which is exactly what I was getting at. Imperialism is the imposition of or the acting on a country's desires WRT another country. If the "receiving" country rejects that and the "imposing" country does nothing in response to make them behave the way they want, then they have done essentially nothing...which is the case in the OP.

One sovereign nation wants something from another. The other one doesn't want to play that way. That's hardly imperialism in its practical definition and use.

Lotta_Drool wrote:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/imperialism

"1: imperial government, authority, or system
2: the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation especially by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas; broadly : the extension or imposition of power, authority, or influence"

US is not gaining territory, is currently releasing control over political and economic life in Iraq.  Hmmm, if the US is Empire build it is sure doing a shitty job of it.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-06-14 14:21:09)

CameronPoe wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Which is exactly what I was getting at. Imperialism is the imposition of or the acting on a country's desires WRT another country. If the "receiving" country rejects that and the "imposing" country does nothing in response to make them behave the way they want, then they have done essentially nothing...which is the case in the OP.

One sovereign nation wants something from another. The other one doesn't want to play that way. That's hardly imperialism in its practical definition and use.

Well personally I would regard militarily strategic ambitions vis a vis the internal workings of another country in a far dimmer light than say having an ambition that a nuclear processing plant be closed on the basis of health concerns, especially given the distances from the homeland involved in each case.