I hope it stays high enough for some US company to finally come up with an alternative.
Then they can choke on that oil.
Then they can choke on that oil.
Nice bike, but around these parts the assholes just don't watch out for motorcycles. Around here (helmet or not) we refer to motorcycle riders as "Organ Donors".DBBrinson1 wrote:
I get 49 to the gallon.. And I get on it! I'd probably average closer to 55 if I didn't open it up after every light.ghettoperson wrote:
How much more fuel efficient are bikes compared to cars? Obviously I'm aware that there are some cars that are great and some bikes that do terribly, but what kind of MPG do you get out of it?DBBrinson1 wrote:
I bought a harley nightster. So much more fun than a car... More people should ride.
EDIT: Spit, I think you'd care for a lot more reasons than that people would stop driving were it $2k a barrel.
Plus she's pretty.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y241/D … n/bike.jpg
CONGRESSMAN CANNON wrote:
You know, if we're going to bring down the price of gas, you have to have three things. You have to have a big reserve, you have to have the ability to develop oil out of that reserve quickly, and you have to be able to produce oil at a relatively low cost. And that's oil shale. In Utah and Colorado and to some degree in Wyoming we have an amazing amount of oil. If you compare the size of our reserves of Saudi Arabia and the whole Middle East, it's like three times as much as all of that combined and that's just the easily, readily available 1800 billion barrels and there are probably 3 billion barrels that are commercially just under that, available. And long term if we change the technology, perhaps as many as 4 trillion, with a T, 4 trillion barrels of oil. There's enough, marginally if we just supplied all of our use in America instead of importing oil, it would be enough for 100 years or so. There's just no energy crisis in the world. There's a regulatory crisis. So what I've done is I've introduced a bill that would give the President the authority to draw people together that can understand these issues in government and to sit down with people that want to develop that shale and say, okay, let's figure out what you need to do to do it in an appropriate, careful, environmental manner and then let's go forward with it. And that would mean fairly quick production of oil and that would have a big impact on the price of gas at the pump.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
I do have "Organ Donor" on my license.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Nice bike, but around these parts the assholes just don't watch out for motorcycles. Around here (helmet or not) we refer to motorcycle riders as "Organ Donors".DBBrinson1 wrote:
I get 49 to the gallon.. And I get on it! I'd probably average closer to 55 if I didn't open it up after every light.ghettoperson wrote:
How much more fuel efficient are bikes compared to cars? Obviously I'm aware that there are some cars that are great and some bikes that do terribly, but what kind of MPG do you get out of it?
EDIT: Spit, I think you'd care for a lot more reasons than that people would stop driving were it $2k a barrel.
Plus she's pretty.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y241/D … n/bike.jpg
Yea, here is Tallahassee the population about 150K. But there are 2 universities and a community college, not to mention Tallahassee is the Capitol of Florida.. So when the legislature and schools are in active, the population about doubles. Students=bad drivers. I mainly look for 2 things when I approach a car.
1. Who's driving it
- I pay extra attention to them if they are on a cell phone (can't check your blind spot holding a phone)
- I look for silver hair (indicates an elder driver)
- Seat reclined way back "thuggie style" (immature driver)
2. What does the car look like.
- If the car is beat the f' up (I assume they don't care about wrecking = possible careless driver)
- I look for beads and stickers (particular FSU/ FAMU/ TCC). Beads usually mean ditsy chick with big boobs driving & the stickers indicated the local universities. This indicates to me that they are a student. Students are usually young and therefore inexperienced at driving. They are most likely from out of town going to school and are unfamiliar with the roads.
- Taxi. Say no more.
- Is is a modded car (rice burner in particulars = retard aggressive driver)
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
You know nothing about what I was talking about. And obviously by you taking my statement of " changes overnight " literal your statements can't be taken seriously.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
dude...lolLotta_Drool wrote:
It could hit $2000 for all I care. There are too many better alternatives that can be put in place overnight. Natural Gas for instance. Cheaper, more abundant, doesn't need refined, many have it plumbed to their house, most gas stations already have it plumbed....... And then there is alway Nuclear Power for electricity to power electric or compressed air vehicles.
The whole oil thing is blatantly a political sell out to the rich that use oil to keep their wealth and control over the world.
That's why voting for O'bama or McClain is dumbest thing anyone can do.
Electric vehicles are not ecnomically viable for comparable range performance. For that you need nice lithium ion batteries, and while those are far superior in every way, they are too hard to justify for anyone but an enthusiast. The lead acid batteries that are much much cheaper don't give a significant enough range for anything but daily tasks around the city. While that is a good step, you will be hard pressed to find people (particularly those without family) to buy a whole car that doesn't have enough range to get out of the city. Until car manufacturers start making electric cars again (they're just as much a part of the conspiracy, good luck) to drive prices down and increase infrastructure for them, the electric car is not for most people.
Compressed air? lol, seriously. They have the same problem with hydrogen vehicles, they can't get the compression high enough to make it viable. There is a much better chance going with electric vehicles, it's much more straight forward.
But you think the changes necessary to switch to nuclear power could happen overnight. Jesus...the magnitude of that miscalculation is astounding. You know better than that.
Natural Gas over Electric cars could start being manuafatured quite readily and installing natural gas pumps is not a major change to the infrastucture. Having these cars able to be charged off of house electricity at night when demand for electricity is low is a no brainer and there are batteries now in the prius that will get you 30 miles on a full charge.
Research things before you call someone elses post BS.
Vroom Vroom
The vehicle is equipped with a 10 kilowatt lithium ion battery that can take it up to 30 miles at speeds under 40 mph before needing to fire up its fuel-fed hybrid-electric engine. After that, the hybrid-electric engine kicks in and can deliver a fuel economy of 88 mpg in the city and 50 mpg on the highway when using E85 (85% ethanol/15% gasoline blend).
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Oh wow, that's a big disgusting fuck-off SUV aswell, imagine if they incorporated the tech into normal cars.Kmarion wrote:
Vroom VroomThe vehicle is equipped with a 10 kilowatt lithium ion battery that can take it up to 30 miles at speeds under 40 mph before needing to fire up its fuel-fed hybrid-electric engine. After that, the hybrid-electric engine kicks in and can deliver a fuel economy of 88 mpg in the city and 50 mpg on the highway when using E85 (85% ethanol/15% gasoline blend).
Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-06-16 14:47:41)
Absolutely not. That engine will only work in extremely loud and poorly painted prototype vehicles .Mek-Stizzle wrote:
Oh wow, that's a big disgusting fuck-off SUV aswell, imagine if they incorporated the tech into normal cars.Kmarion wrote:
Vroom VroomThe vehicle is equipped with a 10 kilowatt lithium ion battery that can take it up to 30 miles at speeds under 40 mph before needing to fire up its fuel-fed hybrid-electric engine. After that, the hybrid-electric engine kicks in and can deliver a fuel economy of 88 mpg in the city and 50 mpg on the highway when using E85 (85% ethanol/15% gasoline blend).
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Kmarion wrote:
CONGRESSMAN CANNON wrote:
You know, if we're going to bring down the price of gas, you have to have three things. You have to have a big reserve, you have to have the ability to develop oil out of that reserve quickly, and you have to be able to produce oil at a relatively low cost. And that's oil shale. In Utah and Colorado and to some degree in Wyoming we have an amazing amount of oil. If you compare the size of our reserves of Saudi Arabia and the whole Middle East, it's like three times as much as all of that combined and that's just the easily, readily available 1800 billion barrels and there are probably 3 billion barrels that are commercially just under that, available. And long term if we change the technology, perhaps as many as 4 trillion, with a T, 4 trillion barrels of oil. There's enough, marginally if we just supplied all of our use in America instead of importing oil, it would be enough for 100 years or so. There's just no energy crisis in the world. There's a regulatory crisis. So what I've done is I've introduced a bill that would give the President the authority to draw people together that can understand these issues in government and to sit down with people that want to develop that shale and say, okay, let's figure out what you need to do to do it in an appropriate, careful, environmental manner and then let's go forward with it. And that would mean fairly quick production of oil and that would have a big impact on the price of gas at the pump.
As for my views on the whole energy debates, humanity is way too selfish, greedy, and driven by personal agendas to accomplish anything.Environmentalists wrote:
ZOMG THE ENVIRONMENT
Last edited by nukchebi0 (2008-06-16 15:31:34)
My dad converted a '98 Ford Ranger to electric, he's quite aware of all the personal transportation technologies that are in the works and makes sure I know which ones are viable and which are not, economically and environmentally. Don't say I'm pulling this shit out my ass.Lotta_Drool wrote:
You know nothing about what I was talking about. And obviously by you taking my statement of " changes overnight " literal your statements can't be taken seriously.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
dude...lolLotta_Drool wrote:
It could hit $2000 for all I care. There are too many better alternatives that can be put in place overnight. Natural Gas for instance. Cheaper, more abundant, doesn't need refined, many have it plumbed to their house, most gas stations already have it plumbed....... And then there is alway Nuclear Power for electricity to power electric or compressed air vehicles.
The whole oil thing is blatantly a political sell out to the rich that use oil to keep their wealth and control over the world.
That's why voting for O'bama or McClain is dumbest thing anyone can do.
Electric vehicles are not ecnomically viable for comparable range performance. For that you need nice lithium ion batteries, and while those are far superior in every way, they are too hard to justify for anyone but an enthusiast. The lead acid batteries that are much much cheaper don't give a significant enough range for anything but daily tasks around the city. While that is a good step, you will be hard pressed to find people (particularly those without family) to buy a whole car that doesn't have enough range to get out of the city. Until car manufacturers start making electric cars again (they're just as much a part of the conspiracy, good luck) to drive prices down and increase infrastructure for them, the electric car is not for most people.
Compressed air? lol, seriously. They have the same problem with hydrogen vehicles, they can't get the compression high enough to make it viable. There is a much better chance going with electric vehicles, it's much more straight forward.
But you think the changes necessary to switch to nuclear power could happen overnight. Jesus...the magnitude of that miscalculation is astounding. You know better than that.
Natural Gas over Electric cars could start being manuafatured quite readily and installing natural gas pumps is not a major change to the infrastucture. Having these cars able to be charged off of house electricity at night when demand for electricity is low is a no brainer and there are batteries now in the prius that will get you 30 miles on a full charge.
Research things before you call someone elses post BS.
30 miles is not enough to get you more than trips around the city, maybe a commute at best. If you can charge while at your workplace then that helps significantly, but you just can't have only a car with that range anymore than you can have just a bike for transportation. You have to also keep in mind that lead acid batteries lose a lot of performance in cold weather, I've experienced as much as a 20% loss in just the cold weather in Texas (maybe 20 degrees F?) so places where it gets extremely cold or stays cold much of the year, you have to have a heating system to keep the batteries warm and still expect a significant drop in range. Terrain also makes a big difference, hills are much harder on most alternative energy cars compared to gasoline.
Thinking natural gas cars are easier to implement over electric cars is really silly. Big car companies are even less on board with NGVs than electric cars, which is really shocking considering how much they have hampered getting electric cars on the road, but they aren't even glancing at natural gas. Filling them up is just as hard as with gasoline vehicles, and though you can fill them up at home, you have to buy special pumps that can be fairly costly. The infrastructure isn't there and would be very costly to put in, it's just like rebuilding all the gas pumps across the nation, and they certainly don't have a head start. Electric on the other hand is incredibly straight forward, once you get a hold of one it is as simple to charge as your cell phone. It can literally be plugged in anywhere you can find a plug, a building, a friends house, some companies even offer parking spaces with charging stations to their "green" employees.
You thinking I was taking literally seriously just shows that you aren't taking me seriously, not that I shouldn't be taken seriously. Overnight is 10-25 years, and if you seriously expect someone to take overnight to mean longer than that time frame you're insane. The infrastructure is not there, the political will is not there, gas prices are not high enough to force a change quick enough.
Electric vehicles could be implemented to a much greater extent if some tough legislation was passed on the car manufacturers, and maybe hydrogen/air compression vehicles could be somewhat viable if they can get the compression ratios up. The infrastructure behind all of that though is just way off. The filling stations for hydrogen/air compression vehicles aren't even going to begin popping up until it looks like they have a decent chance of becoming popular, and while the electric grid is in place for electric cars, you were talking about reforming the system that gets the electricity there. Nuclear power plants don't just spring up like oil refineries can, they have to jump through tons of hoops marred with red tape for site planning, security, emergency plans, safety measures, disposal procedures, site environmental analysis, etc etc etc. Of course these steps are necessary, and another Three Mile Island would set nuclear power back in the U.S. another 20 years, but it would be decades before we could even begin to call ourselves dependent on nuclear energy and not coal.
30 miles before you need to start a motor is pretty good and that is with todays technology that isn't even designed to run that way. Natural gas pumps don't take crap to install because most areas already have gas lines ran to them. There is no refining natural gas, so not it would take very little to change the infrastructure to natural gas and electric. Commuter cars would all still run the same and off hour electricity would not be wasted.
I seriously don't think you know what you are talking about. There are kits to allow people to charge the toyota prius off of your house. There are also kits to double the battery capacity in the Prius so it gets about 60 miles to a charge.
If the US government would just outlaw gasoline and diesel engines from being sold in all 2009 and later vehicles under 3000lbs, that would be all the more it would take for the automakers to build commuting cars that people want and are economical. It is not a matter of needing a new infrastucture first or not having the technology now. The government is ran by oil.
I seriously don't think you know what you are talking about. There are kits to allow people to charge the toyota prius off of your house. There are also kits to double the battery capacity in the Prius so it gets about 60 miles to a charge.
If the US government would just outlaw gasoline and diesel engines from being sold in all 2009 and later vehicles under 3000lbs, that would be all the more it would take for the automakers to build commuting cars that people want and are economical. It is not a matter of needing a new infrastucture first or not having the technology now. The government is ran by oil.
Gasoline is much easier and safer to store and has a higher energy density. Gasoline is an amazing fuel sources, and there are NONE more practical that we currently have available to us for transportation.Lotta_Drool wrote:
It could hit $2000 for all I care. There are too many better alternatives that can be put in place overnight. Natural Gas for instance. Cheaper, more abundant, doesn't need refined, many have it plumbed to their house, most gas stations already have it plumbed....... And then there is alway Nuclear Power for electricity to power electric or compressed air vehicles.
The whole oil thing is blatantly a political sell out to the rich that use oil to keep their wealth and control over the world.
That's why voting for O'bama or McClain is dumbest thing anyone can do.
Nuclear energy is great, but you would run into the same issue of resources running out, we only have about 25 years worth of nuclear fuel available if it was the primary source of energy.
Another crucial mistake you are making is that you think oil is only used for energy. Almost everything you own is made from oil or is made with oil. Plastic, lubricants, ect. Oil is not going anywhere overnight.
Lithium Ion batteries are NOT better than gasoline. They energy and power density is abysmal, their lifespan leaves a lot to be desired. They have very complicated charge cycles, are expensive to manufacture, and require oil to manufacture.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
dude...lolLotta_Drool wrote:
It could hit $2000 for all I care. There are too many better alternatives that can be put in place overnight. Natural Gas for instance. Cheaper, more abundant, doesn't need refined, many have it plumbed to their house, most gas stations already have it plumbed....... And then there is alway Nuclear Power for electricity to power electric or compressed air vehicles.
The whole oil thing is blatantly a political sell out to the rich that use oil to keep their wealth and control over the world.
That's why voting for O'bama or McClain is dumbest thing anyone can do.
Electric vehicles are not ecnomically viable for comparable range performance. For that you need nice lithium ion batteries, and while those are far superior in every way, they are too hard to justify for anyone but an enthusiast. The lead acid batteries that are much much cheaper don't give a significant enough range for anything but daily tasks around the city. While that is a good step, you will be hard pressed to find people (particularly those without family) to buy a whole car that doesn't have enough range to get out of the city. Until car manufacturers start making electric cars again (they're just as much a part of the conspiracy, good luck) to drive prices down and increase infrastructure for them, the electric car is not for most people.
Compressed air? lol, seriously. They have the same problem with hydrogen vehicles, they can't get the compression high enough to make it viable. There is a much better chance going with electric vehicles, it's much more straight forward.
But you think the changes necessary to switch to nuclear power could happen overnight. Jesus...the magnitude of that miscalculation is astounding. You know better than that.
I call BS on your electric vehicle claim. I am on a university team that designs, builds, and races hybrid electric vehicles. They are complicated and unless you dad is an engineer with a lot of free time, manufacturing equipment, and money, then you are full of shit.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
My dad converted a '98 Ford Ranger to electric, he's quite aware of all the personal transportation technologies that are in the works and makes sure I know which ones are viable and which are not, economically and environmentally. Don't say I'm pulling this shit out my ass.Lotta_Drool wrote:
You know nothing about what I was talking about. And obviously by you taking my statement of " changes overnight " literal your statements can't be taken seriously.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
dude...lol
Electric vehicles are not ecnomically viable for comparable range performance. For that you need nice lithium ion batteries, and while those are far superior in every way, they are too hard to justify for anyone but an enthusiast. The lead acid batteries that are much much cheaper don't give a significant enough range for anything but daily tasks around the city. While that is a good step, you will be hard pressed to find people (particularly those without family) to buy a whole car that doesn't have enough range to get out of the city. Until car manufacturers start making electric cars again (they're just as much a part of the conspiracy, good luck) to drive prices down and increase infrastructure for them, the electric car is not for most people.
Compressed air? lol, seriously. They have the same problem with hydrogen vehicles, they can't get the compression high enough to make it viable. There is a much better chance going with electric vehicles, it's much more straight forward.
But you think the changes necessary to switch to nuclear power could happen overnight. Jesus...the magnitude of that miscalculation is astounding. You know better than that.
Natural Gas over Electric cars could start being manuafatured quite readily and installing natural gas pumps is not a major change to the infrastucture. Having these cars able to be charged off of house electricity at night when demand for electricity is low is a no brainer and there are batteries now in the prius that will get you 30 miles on a full charge.
Research things before you call someone elses post BS.
30 miles is not enough to get you more than trips around the city, maybe a commute at best. If you can charge while at your workplace then that helps significantly, but you just can't have only a car with that range anymore than you can have just a bike for transportation. You have to also keep in mind that lead acid batteries lose a lot of performance in cold weather, I've experienced as much as a 20% loss in just the cold weather in Texas (maybe 20 degrees F?) so places where it gets extremely cold or stays cold much of the year, you have to have a heating system to keep the batteries warm and still expect a significant drop in range. Terrain also makes a big difference, hills are much harder on most alternative energy cars compared to gasoline.
Thinking natural gas cars are easier to implement over electric cars is really silly. Big car companies are even less on board with NGVs than electric cars, which is really shocking considering how much they have hampered getting electric cars on the road, but they aren't even glancing at natural gas. Filling them up is just as hard as with gasoline vehicles, and though you can fill them up at home, you have to buy special pumps that can be fairly costly. The infrastructure isn't there and would be very costly to put in, it's just like rebuilding all the gas pumps across the nation, and they certainly don't have a head start. Electric on the other hand is incredibly straight forward, once you get a hold of one it is as simple to charge as your cell phone. It can literally be plugged in anywhere you can find a plug, a building, a friends house, some companies even offer parking spaces with charging stations to their "green" employees.
You thinking I was taking literally seriously just shows that you aren't taking me seriously, not that I shouldn't be taken seriously. Overnight is 10-25 years, and if you seriously expect someone to take overnight to mean longer than that time frame you're insane. The infrastructure is not there, the political will is not there, gas prices are not high enough to force a change quick enough.
Electric vehicles could be implemented to a much greater extent if some tough legislation was passed on the car manufacturers, and maybe hydrogen/air compression vehicles could be somewhat viable if they can get the compression ratios up. The infrastructure behind all of that though is just way off. The filling stations for hydrogen/air compression vehicles aren't even going to begin popping up until it looks like they have a decent chance of becoming popular, and while the electric grid is in place for electric cars, you were talking about reforming the system that gets the electricity there. Nuclear power plants don't just spring up like oil refineries can, they have to jump through tons of hoops marred with red tape for site planning, security, emergency plans, safety measures, disposal procedures, site environmental analysis, etc etc etc. Of course these steps are necessary, and another Three Mile Island would set nuclear power back in the U.S. another 20 years, but it would be decades before we could even begin to call ourselves dependent on nuclear energy and not coal.
lead-acid?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
dude...lolLotta_Drool wrote:
It could hit $2000 for all I care. There are too many better alternatives that can be put in place overnight. Natural Gas for instance. Cheaper, more abundant, doesn't need refined, many have it plumbed to their house, most gas stations already have it plumbed....... And then there is alway Nuclear Power for electricity to power electric or compressed air vehicles.
The whole oil thing is blatantly a political sell out to the rich that use oil to keep their wealth and control over the world.
That's why voting for O'bama or McClain is dumbest thing anyone can do.
Electric vehicles are not ecnomically viable for comparable range performance. For that you need nice lithium ion batteries, and while those are far superior in every way, they are too hard to justify for anyone but an enthusiast. The lead acid batteries that are much much cheaper don't give a significant enough range for anything but daily tasks around the city. While that is a good step, you will be hard pressed to find people (particularly those without family) to buy a whole car that doesn't have enough range to get out of the city. Until car manufacturers start making electric cars again (they're just as much a part of the conspiracy, good luck) to drive prices down and increase infrastructure for them, the electric car is not for most people.
Compressed air? lol, seriously. They have the same problem with hydrogen vehicles, they can't get the compression high enough to make it viable. There is a much better chance going with electric vehicles, it's much more straight forward.
But you think the changes necessary to switch to nuclear power could happen overnight. Jesus...the magnitude of that miscalculation is astounding. You know better than that.
lol, those things run down in 30 minutes if you even leave your lights on...
and lithium ion is both dangerous and expensive, and extremely difficult to dispose of.
and don't even get me started on the thought of high pressure tanks of pure hydrogen driving around...
the future of the fuel industry lies in biodiesel from algae, I guarantee it.
Uhhh...not designed to run that way? Electric motors precede gasoline motors, they are as absolutely basic as you can get. We aren't exactly reinventing the wheel here.Lotta_Drool wrote:
30 miles before you need to start a motor is pretty good and that is with todays technology that isn't even designed to run that way. Natural gas pumps don't take crap to install because most areas already have gas lines ran to them. There is no refining natural gas, so not it would take very little to change the infrastructure to natural gas and electric. Commuter cars would all still run the same and off hour electricity would not be wasted.
I seriously don't think you know what you are talking about. There are kits to allow people to charge the toyota prius off of your house. There are also kits to double the battery capacity in the Prius so it gets about 60 miles to a charge.
If the US government would just outlaw gasoline and diesel engines from being sold in all 2009 and later vehicles under 3000lbs, that would be all the more it would take for the automakers to build commuting cars that people want and are economical. It is not a matter of needing a new infrastucture first or not having the technology now. The government is ran by oil.
Pump stations have naturla gas lines that cannot handle the load of cars constantly filling entire tanks all day. Gas stations actually have huge underground tanks that store gas to make sure there is a steady supply of gas in between the times when the tanks gets refilled by big trucks carrying lots of gas. I know, it's crazy that the gas doesn't just get there all by itself, or that it isn't pumped through a tiny pipe from some small time supplier.
Infrastructure is not just refineries, it's factories to build the cars, to service the cars, to refuel the cars. It's hardly irrelevant.
Of course there are kits to charge an electric car at your house. Our electric car can be plugged into a normal 110V socket, just like the one your computer is plugged into, or a 220V for faster charging. Doesn't even require a kit that the dealer probably makes you pay through the nose for.
Doubling the battery capacity of those batteries (I'm guessing lead acid, nope I just looked it up they're slightly better nickel ones) is not only expensive ($3000), it's heavy. We got 10 lead acid batteries that we get about an optimal reasonable 35 miles out of, and they weigh almost 100 pounds each. That's 1000 pounds of weight, and you're just throwing around words like doubling it. It's neither cheap nor efficient to go about it that way.
If you think there is even a remote chance of any legislation of that magnitude being passed that early, you are not nearly as politically savvy as I thought. Change that startling is not good for the economy, even if it was passed, and forcing change in only one area is not good enough.
I meant that they were far superior to other batteries, not to gasoline. My wording was unclear. If you have the appropriate charging station they charge much faster, and have allow a much better power/weight ratio comparatively. The expense is the primary downside, but if we really are moving to electric cars, they are the most likely candidate. Nickel just doesn't cut it when it comes to efficiency.paul386 wrote:
Lithium Ion batteries are NOT better than gasoline. They energy and power density is abysmal, their lifespan leaves a lot to be desired. They have very complicated charge cycles, are expensive to manufacture, and require oil to manufacture.
engineer - checkpaul386 wrote:
I call BS on your electric vehicle claim. I am on a university team that designs, builds, and races hybrid electric vehicles. They are complicated and unless you dad is an engineer with a lot of free time, manufacturing equipment, and money, then you are full of shit.
free time - check
tools to put together manufactured pieces bought - check
extra money - check
read it and weep
My last name is Whiteside, the url is electric vehicle whiteside.
I respect you man...but you really don't know what you're talking about.S.Lythberg wrote:
lead-acid?
lol, those things run down in 30 minutes if you even leave your lights on...
and lithium ion is both dangerous and expensive, and extremely difficult to dispose of.
and don't even get me started on the thought of high pressure tanks of pure hydrogen driving around...
the future of the fuel industry lies in biodiesel from algae, I guarantee it.
Good lead acid batteries are not the kind that go in your car, as I said we have ten of them sitting in that truck and they give it about a 35 mile range. They're also by far the cheapest for this sort of home conversion.
lithium ion is difficult to dispose of, as any batteries are difficult to dispose of, as the computer you're on right now is difficult to dispose of. It's not really a reason not to buy them.
As for the danger of lithium ion and hydrogen tanks, it's a really common fear that a lot of people have asked my dad about. What people don't realize is the bomb they have riding under their car, the one filled with 20 gallons of a highly volatile substance called gasoline. Gasoline has an incredibly high energy density, but the risk is controlled and people don't even think twice about it anymore.
Nickel Metal Hydride may not be as efficient as Lithium Ion, but they charge faster / easier, are less prone to temperature, last longer, and are a lot cheaper.
I agree nickel is a lot more straightforward, but I can't see most people going with only electric vehicles without at least 100 miles of range. People may not travel that far frequently necessarily, but having the option (at least for my family) is a requirement. Nickel/lead acid is a good option for second vehicles, complimenting another gas vehicle, but if you want to replace gas vehicles I think Li-ion is the way to go.paul386 wrote:
Nickel Metal Hydride may not be as efficient as Lithium Ion, but they charge faster / easier, are less prone to temperature, last longer, and are a lot cheaper.
edit: I could be wrong, but I think Li-ion charge quicker.
Natural Gas over electric refers to a Natural gas motor used to run the electric system. ie Trains are diesel over electric.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Uhhh...not designed to run that way? Electric motors precede gasoline motors, they are as absolutely basic as you can get. We aren't exactly reinventing the wheel here.Lotta_Drool wrote:
30 miles before you need to start a motor is pretty good and that is with todays technology that isn't even designed to run that way. Natural gas pumps don't take crap to install because most areas already have gas lines ran to them. There is no refining natural gas, so not it would take very little to change the infrastructure to natural gas and electric. Commuter cars would all still run the same and off hour electricity would not be wasted.
I seriously don't think you know what you are talking about. There are kits to allow people to charge the toyota prius off of your house. There are also kits to double the battery capacity in the Prius so it gets about 60 miles to a charge.
If the US government would just outlaw gasoline and diesel engines from being sold in all 2009 and later vehicles under 3000lbs, that would be all the more it would take for the automakers to build commuting cars that people want and are economical. It is not a matter of needing a new infrastucture first or not having the technology now. The government is ran by oil.
You know what gas mains in cities can supply now, you are pretty smart or are just talking out your ass.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Pump stations have naturla gas lines that cannot handle the load of cars constantly filling entire tanks all day. Gas stations actually have huge underground tanks that store gas to make sure there is a steady supply of gas in between the times when the tanks gets refilled by big trucks carrying lots of gas. I know, it's crazy that the gas doesn't just get there all by itself, or that it isn't pumped through a tiny pipe from some small time supplier.
Refineries are a huge problem with Oil and Biofuel. That and needing to haul it to gas stations. Natural Gas does not need anything close to the infrastructure that oil and ethanol requires and 90% of the infrastructure is already in place. Building and servicing are no problem LPG vehicles have been around for ever along with battreys and electric motors.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Infrastructure is not just refineries, it's factories to build the cars, to service the cars, to refuel the cars. It's hardly irrelevant.
I never said the US would do anything about the dependancy on Gas, infact my point was that they won't even though there are many practical solutions out there.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Of course there are kits to charge an electric car at your house. Our electric car can be plugged into a normal 110V socket, just like the one your computer is plugged into, or a 220V for faster charging. Doesn't even require a kit that the dealer probably makes you pay through the nose for.
Doubling the battery capacity of those batteries (I'm guessing lead acid, nope I just looked it up they're slightly better nickel ones) is not only expensive ($3000), it's heavy. We got 10 lead acid batteries that we get about an optimal reasonable 35 miles out of, and they weigh almost 100 pounds each. That's 1000 pounds of weight, and you're just throwing around words like doubling it. It's neither cheap nor efficient to go about it that way.
If you think there is even a remote chance of any legislation of that magnitude being passed that early, you are not nearly as politically savvy as I thought. Change that startling is not good for the economy, even if it was passed, and forcing change in only one area is not good enough.
As for your statements about the batteries in a Prius weighing the same as lead acid batteries and stuff, it is obvious you know nothing and have never worked on crap or researched anything before you started spouting off.
Last edited by Lotta_Drool (2008-06-16 20:04:40)
Though I don't know for sure, I assume that hybrids have an electric motor and gas motor on the same drive shaft, so neither is necessarily dominate over the other. Otherwise I guess it would be a gasoline motor that converts all its power to electricity, and then runs an electric motor? But it seems like you would be needlessly losing a lot of efficiency. I suppose in that case your statement would make some sense, but otherwise the hybrid has a perfectly good electric motor perfected over decades tacked on. There should be no growing pains in the electrical motor aspect of the system.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Natural Gas over electric refers to a Natural gas motor used to run the electric system. ie Trains are diesel over electric.
Either I don't understand what you're saying, or you don't understand the workings of an electric engine.
edit: wait are you talking about natural gas vehicles here? I thought you were talking about the Prius (hybrids) still.
It is significant, but they aren't designed to handle the distribution of gas to thousands of cars per day along with all the homes and businesses they already provide heat and power and such to. The system could surely hold out for awhile, but it could not get anywhere near handling a complete shift to natural gas vehicles. Looking at what you wrote later it looks like you aren't expecting a complete shift, so that might be the problem here, but there would have to be a lot of infrastructure put in to replace all gas cars with NGVs.Lotta_Drool wrote:
You know what gas mains in cities can supply now, you are pretty smart or are just talking out your ass.
But I don't want to replace cars with biofuel or continue too far with oil, I want to replace them with electric. I would not go so far as to say 90% of the infrastructure is there (and look who is talking out of there ass now, unless you have something to back it up) but I do recognize that we are much closer to natural gas than most. Electric on the other hand, however, we could cobble together in a year or two if the demand did rise.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Refineries are a huge problem with Oil and Biofuel. That and needing to haul it to gas stations. Natural Gas does not need anything close to the infrastructure that oil and ethanol requires and 90% of the infrastructure is already in place. Building and servicing are no problem LPG vehicles have been around for ever along with battreys and electric motors.
Well then why bother with what ifs? I'd rather focus on the maybes and the hopefullys.Lotta_Drool wrote:
I never said the US would do anything about the dependancy on Gas, infact my point was that they won't even though there are many practical solutions out there.
I never said it weighed the same. I am just correlating serious tradeoffs in my experience that have to be kept in mind. Personally, I never would have thought that weight would have been a big concern in an electric vehicle. It's not even keeping the weight down to keep it efficient, it's pushing the maximum load on the chassis, and this is on a small truck. A little car like the Prius, even though it won't be 1000 pounds, throwing in another 500, 250, or even 100 pounds is going to make a difference, plus the additional space, plus the additional cost (that I did look up). Just doubling the power source is often not a very efficient route to getting more range.Lotta_Drool wrote:
As for your statements about the batteries in a Prius weighing the same as lead acid batteries and stuff, it is obvious you know nothing and have never worked on crap or researched anything before you started spouting off.
Different power storage technologies are already a strong area of interest as we start needing a better portable power source more and more, (cell phones, laptops, portable game systems, all the little gadgets that won't be able to run more than half an hour on a charge in a year) and I wouldn't be suprised if all the R&D companies are doing in battery technology pays off in the next few years.
Honestly, all this bullying you're doing trying to tell people I don't know my shit is getting old. If my bullshit is so uninformed and wrong, just refute it and let people decide for themselves mmmkay?
We did some research into batteries for our hybrid electric race car. Ultimately we choose ultra capacitors because of their very high power density. Lithium Ion batteries have very good energy density for battery, but poor power density. They charge at around .8 C/s. The charge cycles are extremely complicated compared to other batteries and if not done ideally result in reduced life at best and explosion at worst.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
I agree nickel is a lot more straightforward, but I can't see most people going with only electric vehicles without at least 100 miles of range. People may not travel that far frequently necessarily, but having the option (at least for my family) is a requirement. Nickel/lead acid is a good option for second vehicles, complimenting another gas vehicle, but if you want to replace gas vehicles I think Li-ion is the way to go.paul386 wrote:
Nickel Metal Hydride may not be as efficient as Lithium Ion, but they charge faster / easier, are less prone to temperature, last longer, and are a lot cheaper.
edit: I could be wrong, but I think Li-ion charge quicker.
Well, you're going for a race car though. A normal car doesn't necessarily need power (energy per second) so much as just energy period. I mean it's the difference between a muscle car and a minivan, of course the minivan doesn't have the acceleration of the muscle car, but that's not what you need in a minivan.paul386 wrote:
We did some research into batteries for our hybrid electric race car. Ultimately we choose ultra capacitors because of their very high power density. Lithium Ion batteries have very good energy density for battery, but poor power density. They charge at around .8 C/s. The charge cycles are extremely complicated compared to other batteries and if not done ideally result in reduced life at best and explosion at worst.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
I agree nickel is a lot more straightforward, but I can't see most people going with only electric vehicles without at least 100 miles of range. People may not travel that far frequently necessarily, but having the option (at least for my family) is a requirement. Nickel/lead acid is a good option for second vehicles, complimenting another gas vehicle, but if you want to replace gas vehicles I think Li-ion is the way to go.paul386 wrote:
Nickel Metal Hydride may not be as efficient as Lithium Ion, but they charge faster / easier, are less prone to temperature, last longer, and are a lot cheaper.
edit: I could be wrong, but I think Li-ion charge quicker.
My dad did tell me about the rather exotic charge cycle, but you get the right controller and it should be okay. Everytime you fill up at the pump at best you get almost all of the flammable fluid into the tank and don't get too many fumes everywhere, at worst you blow up a small county.
If you didn't know already there are a significant number of people into electric vehicle racing, and it's actually really amazing what they can do. Since the low end torque of an electric isn't even comparable to a gas car, they have made electric cars that absolutely destroy any gas car it goes up against in I think the quarter mile drag.
I would be interested in a site for your organization/race.
These prices are so out of control.
I got rid of my 5.7 liter camaro back in March and got a 2001 Eclipse GT. Little better gas mileage but it still sucks when 20 dollars wont even get you half a tank.
im gonna get me one of these bad boys
I got rid of my 5.7 liter camaro back in March and got a 2001 Eclipse GT. Little better gas mileage but it still sucks when 20 dollars wont even get you half a tank.
im gonna get me one of these bad boys
My Aunt and Uncle have several...God Save the Queen wrote:
wish I had a horse
I think he means to use for transportation rather than keeping several horsies because they are rich toffs.SEREVENT wrote:
My Aunt and Uncle have several...God Save the Queen wrote:
wish I had a horse
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
My Aunt and Uncle have several...m3thod wrote:
I think he means to use for transportation rather than keeping several horsies because they are rich toffs.SEREVENT wrote:
My Aunt and Uncle have several...God Save the Queen wrote:
wish I had a horse
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella