BF2S Forums Democracy is officially dead in Europe

CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

David.P wrote:

@CameronPoe
Jesus christ cam you are really blind sighted by liberal guilt. Oh well too bad. In 20 years time you wont have 1 hundreth of the freedoms you have now. And I think you know why.

What on earth is 'liberal guilt'? Do you guys have a bunch of monkeys out back banging on typewriters coming up with meaningless new labels and phrases?

here's an interesting article on white liberal guilt:  http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/art … 1252.shtml.  i don't fully agree with everything listed there but there are indeed a bunch of interesting points - especially the section on minority success and how it is perceived by the minority group (essentially they are held back by envy).

To characterize liberalism is to to show no understanding of liberalism whatsoever. Liberalism by the very definition of the term would suggest a vast array of disparate views amongst 'liberals'. Liberal thinking = thinking outside the box, looking at every alternative, not holding unnecessarily entrenched views.

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

It would appear illegal immigration isn't your problem, immigrants that dilute your identities seem to be the problem
You also didn't comment on the paragraphs that I quoted....Please not miss the point, for example, where half a million new immigrants are pouring in every year mostly from the ME.

The land of denial must be blissfully convenient place to be.

lowing, I live in Europe. I travel widely throughout Europe. I am a European. I am familiar with European law. I see Europe through my own eyes every day. I know from numerous second hand experiences how impossible it is for a non-EU citizen to qualify for a work visa in the EU. Your scaremongering is exactly that, scaremongering. The EU takes less kindly to immigration than even Americans. The land of denial appears to be wherever you are, not where I am. Keep pushing your bigoted agenda though, it's quite amusing.

To consider that Europe would allow 3.5% of its population to eventually impose its will on the 96.5% of the majority is perhaps the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard in my life.

Well tell ya what, I have already posted articles that suggest Europe does have this problem, how 'bout you post some articles that say Europe does not.

lowing wrote:

Well tell ya what, I have already posted articles that suggest Europe does have this problem, how 'bout you post some articles that say Europe does not.

Articles, wooooo. Can I ask, were you assailed by thousands of Muslims seeking to convert you to Islam during your trip to southern Germany?

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Well tell ya what, I have already posted articles that suggest Europe does have this problem, how 'bout you post some articles that say Europe does not.

Articles, wooooo. Can I ask, were you assailed by thousands of Muslims seeking to convert you to Islam during your trip to southern Germany?

lol....

the way immigrants are treated down there, I'd say his chances of being attacked by Neo-Nazis were bigger...

as far as the Lisbon treaty is concerned, I don't know why the irish people rejected it, but I from my point of view, they didn't do themselves a favour. As the big world nations struggle for economic strength, the EU will need a unified voice and speedier processes to protect its interests against the superpowers, and the rising nations in Asia.

Commodities such as oil, or food, or even energy are traded internationally, and if europe does not improve its structures, and speeds up decision-making, we will be left behind.

I can imagine lowing in Germany, with his fanny pack, cap and t-shirt/short combination. With at least 3 items having the US flag on it

CameronPoe wrote:

David.P wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Articles, wooooo. Can I ask, were you assailed by thousands of Muslims seeking to convert you to Islam during your trip to southern Germany?

I Gotta Admit I'm enjoying this. Come on Cam what are you afraid of being wrong for once?

lol. Why would I admit being wrong when I'm right? You've probably never even been to Europe.

Cam, I have shown where people that live in Europe and are older than you are, think there is a problem with immigrantion of Islam. THey have written all kindza shit to back up their points..............Now, so far all anyone has gotten from you is "I live here so I know". All I am asking is for you to discredit those that feel passionate enough to write about this, by posting counter articles, written by people that disagree with them....I ain't askin' fopr alot here, pal, and it is certainly not any less than you would be demanding form me.

lowing wrote:

Cam, I have shown where people that live in Europe and are older than you are, think there is a problem with immigrantion of Islam. THey have written all kindza shit to back up their points..............Now, so far all anyone has gotten from you is "I live here so I know". All I am asking is for you to discredit those that feel passionate enough to write about this, by posting counter articles, written by people that disagree with them....I ain't askin' fopr alot here, pal, and it is certainly not any less than you would be demanding form me.

You have shown that a few right wingers are paranoid, who are incidentally older than I am (relevance????? lol - really stretching there lowing), about something that isn't exactly worth getting worried about. 10% of the population of France is Muslim. How many terrorist attacks perpetrated against the French government at the hands of Muslim extremists have occurred in the last 100 years? Precisely none. How many years have the Muslim minorities of England lived in peace under British law? Decades if not a century - one or two recent blemishes following the UK's misguided invasion of Iraq. It's very easy, as we all know, to find 'bad news' stories or 'what's wrong with the world stories' - nobody writes articles about how something is not a significant problem: that's just a patent waste of time.

You completely misjudge the majority sentiment of Europe. Don't drag us into your right wing bullshit world.

HEADLINE:

'Muslim immigrants fine upstanding members of society'

How retarded does that sound? Do you get 'African-Americans actually work quite hard' headlines in America? No, because it's retarded.

Anyways, how did you enjoy the mosques of Deutschistan?

Last edited by m3thod (2008-06-19 09:41:36)

lowing wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

David.P wrote:

I Gotta Admit I'm enjoying this. Come on Cam what are you afraid of being wrong for once?

lol. Why would I admit being wrong when I'm right? You've probably never even been to Europe.

Cam, I have shown where people that live in Europe and are older than you are, think there is a problem with immigrantion of Islam. THey have written all kindza shit to back up their points..............Now, so far all anyone has gotten from you is "I live here so I know". All I am asking is for you to discredit those that feel passionate enough to write about this, by posting counter articles, written by people that disagree with them....I ain't askin' fopr alot here, pal, and it is certainly not any less than you would be demanding form me.

Honestly lowing, it really is a non-issue here. You can cite all the alarming sounding figures in relation to immigration but the fact is the Muslim percentage of the European population is still ridiculously low so they have virtually no voting power. We have no strong Muslim political movements here in Ireland and we have no Muslim politicians in the Dáil or Seanad. In public life I only ever see signs of integration rather than segregation here...even today in Topshop, the clothing store, I saw an older, conservatively dressed Muslim woman (complete with full headscarf) with her young daughter shopping for Britney Spears style clothing - not a Hijab or burqa in sight! I've also probably already told you about the local Mosque that has it's name written in Gaelic with Celtic lettering on the side of the building.

This Islamophobic nonsense is just as ridiculous as the 'Red peril' of the cold war era.

lowing wrote:

Cam, again I cite articles and figures that go against what you say..............So please post some articles that discount what has already been written, several times...........I am sorry but if there is any bullshit here, it is you trying to tell me that you are right because, well, you said so..You know that does not carry much wieght here Cam, so, screw you and your opinion, post something that supports your stance that immigration into Europe, is not a problem now, nor will it in the forseeable future.......I can post link after link after link supporting that view point, how about you do the same

What does your age have to do with it? Simple, older people have been around the block a lot longer than you have, Cam, they have seen alot more and a lot more changes.

Braddock other than your word, I invite you to do the same thing, post some articles discrediting what has been written about immigration into Europe from the ME. and stop with the I live here so I know bullshit.

What exactly do you want the articles to say lowing? I'm puzzled as to what you're actually asking for here?

The bullshit is that immigration to the EU will never impact on the political makeup of Europe. Fact. You would have to be a gormless rambling idiot to suggest otherwise through looking at our laws and simply applying logical reasoning. Articles aren't necessary to state hard-and-fast that we are under no 'takeover' threat or whatever silly bullshit it is that you're suggesting. Illegal immigration is a problem - as it is in the US. We have provisions in place that lead to the deportation of illegal immigrants lowing. Here's an interesting article for you, seeing as you only believe things that you read (provided the author is older than you) rather than what you can see with your own eyes and hear with your own ears.

http://www.irr.org.uk/2005/april/ha000011.html

Lowing - I'm nearly 30 and I'd venture to say I've probably seen more of the world than you, correct me if I'm wrong. Your absolute awe and amazement in relation to your trip to Germany spoke absolute volumes to me about the fact that you are probably incredibly insular, green and inward-thinking... and you're probably at least 10 years older than me. What did I miss in the 70s (somewhere in the US interior) that was so earth-shattering, eh?

lol @ 'stop with the I live here so I know bullshit.' -> Should it be 'listen to me because I don't live here'???

Oh and one more time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_E … rojections

Seeing as you like articles. And those projections don't take into account the anti-immigration (in general) sentiment in the EU, which will further limit things.

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslims_in_Western_Europe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_im … pean_Union

You really miss the Cold War don't you?

PS Should we all listen to Robert Mugabe because he's 84?
PPS People who aren't as old as other people can and do read about the things - the 'changes' - that happened before they were born...strange but true...

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-06-19 13:51:51)

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

Cam, again I cite articles and figures that go against what you say..............So please post some articles that discount what has already been written, several times...........I am sorry but if there is any bullshit here, it is you trying to tell me that you are right because, well, you said so..You know that does not carry much weight here Cam, so, screw you and your opinion, post something that supports your stance that immigration into Europe, is not a problem now, nor will it in the forseeable future.......I can post link after link after link supporting that view point, how about you do the same

What does your age have to do with it? Simple, older people have been around the block a lot longer than you have, Cam, they have seen alot more and a lot more changes.

Braddock other than your word, I invite you to do the same thing, post some articles discrediting what has been written about immigration into Europe from the ME. and stop with the I live here so I know bullshit.

What exactly do you want the articles to say lowing? I'm puzzled as to what you're actually asking for here?

The bullshit is that immigration to the EU will never impact on the political makeup of Europe. Fact. You would have to be a gormless rambling idiot to suggest otherwise through looking at our laws and simply applying logical reasoning. Articles aren't necessary to state hard-and-fast that we are under no 'takeover' threat or whatever silly bullshit it is that you're suggesting. Illegal immigration is a problem - as it is in the US. We have provisions in place that lead to the deportation of illegal immigrants lowing. Here's an interesting article for you, seeing as you only believe things that you read (provided the author is older than you) rather than what you can see with your own eyes and hear with your own ears.

http://www.irr.org.uk/2005/april/ha000011.html

Lowing - I'm nearly 30 and I'd venture to say I've probably seen more of the world than you, correct me if I'm wrong. Your absolute awe and amazement in relation to your trip to Germany spoke absolute volumes to me about the fact that you are probably incredibly insular, green and inward-thinking... and you're probably at least 10 years older than me. What did I miss in the 70s (somewhere in the US interior) that was so earth-shattering, eh?

lol @ 'stop with the I live here so I know bullshit.' -> Should it be 'listen to me because I don't live here'???

Oh and one more time:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_E … rojections

Seeing as you like articles. And those projections don't take into account the anti-immigration (in general) sentiment in the EU, which will further limit things.

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslims_in_Western_Europe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_im … pean_Union

You really miss the Cold War don't you?

PS Should we all listen to Robert Mugabe because he's 84?
PPS People who aren't as old as other people can and do read about the things - the 'changes' - that happened before they were born...strange but true...

Well Cam, your first article basically speaks of how this problem could/should be managed, I didn't read anywhere that says there isn't a problem...

Your second article, well........"Projections
Professor Philip Jenkins of Penn State University estimates that by 2100, Muslims will compose about 25% of Europe's population. But Jenkins admits this figure does not take account of the large birthrates amongst Europe's immigrant Christians.[13] Additionally, this estimation depends more on the supposed inevitability of the increase of Muslim population in the West and one person's research on the future of Europeans. Therefore, while Jenkins' estimation should be considered in the process of predicting what it would be like to live in the West in the year 2100, it should also be raising doubts about the entire European population.

Europe's Muslim population (without Russia) has nearly tripled over the last 30 years, to about 23 million, and experts predict it will double again by 2020. In 2005, the EU-25 had an overall net gain from international migration of +1.8 million people. This accounts for almost 85% of Europe's total population growth in 2005.[14] Muslim birth rate in Europe is three times higher than the non-Muslim one.[9][15] By 2050, 1 in 5 Europeans will likely be Muslim.[16]".................


yer aupposed to discrediting the immigration problems, not supporting them remember?? I didn't even get to the others after reading these 2.

Now, on to you.......I never said the EU was under a "take over threat". This is simply your way of trying to put words in my mouth so you can say I am wrong... I did say, however, that it would appear that Europe is being bombarded with ME immigration and that could change the landscape of your countries and their identifies, as your govts. who look for votes, pander to these increased populations.

In the US, I am not horded by Mexicans...............So that means that there isn't an immigration problem there?


You aren't even 30 years old, yer right, and what you have seen are more tourist spots in the world....I know, because I can still see you standing in all of those self portraits you used to post of you sucking on that stupid cigar standing in front of landmarks.

I have lived not toured, lived, in 3 different countries now, Germany was awesome, the food the scenery, the history. I was impressed, and excited to see those things. That has nothing to do with the fact that Europe would seem to have an immigration problem.


DO iI miss the cold war? Yeah I think I do, things seemed more in order back in those days. Of course, you wouldn't remember it. Hell, do you even remember Reagan as president?

No lets not listen to the older folks, lets listen to a smart ass 20 something who proudly chomps on a phallic symbol to make himself look older.

lowing wrote:

Cam, again I cite articles and figures that go against what you say..............So please post some articles that discount what has already been written, several times...........I am sorry but if there is any bullshit here, it is you trying to tell me that you are right because, well, you said so..You know that does not carry much wieght here Cam, so, screw you and your opinion, post something that supports your stance that immigration into Europe, is not a problem now, nor will it in the forseeable future.......I can post link after link after link supporting that view point, how about you do the same

What does your age have to do with it? Simple, older people have been around the block a lot longer than you have, Cam, they have seen alot more and a lot more changes.

Braddock other than your word, I invite you to do the same thing, post some articles discrediting what has been written about immigration into Europe from the ME. and stop with the I live here so I know bullshit.

As Cam has already stated lowing, positive stories about everything being okay don't make for good headlines or book sales figures these days. There was a best-seller last year called "European Immigration: Everything's Okay, Don't Worry About It" but I can't seem to find a link for it anywhere; that one flew off the shelves when it came out. The reason I don't pay too much head to the upper end of the alarmist figures and statistics is because affluence always levels off fertility rates and that's never taken into account in statistics that are seeking to back up a negative or alarmist argument.

However, here is some good news for you to get your teeth into.