BF2S Forums Crazy AA Behavior?

Hey, here's a crazy idea. Why don't we ask EA to get rid of the AA? And since we can't defend ourselves anymore (like it was working before anyway) let's get rid of all the airplanes and helicopters from the game. And since I'm tired of getting ran over like yesterday's newspaper in the driveway, let's get rid of all transports and armor. And getting shot is a real downer too, so let's take away all the guns from each kit... and force everyone to run around with a white bunny that they have to gently squeeze for ammunition! Yeah, and they have to throw that, but they can't JUMP and throw that... cause that would be like... I don't know.... not realistic and like.... cheating, or something. Yeah, that's the ticket... because damn-it, I paid like $50 bucks and EA owes me, man!

The game is the game. Could it be better? Sure. Does it need patching? Well it sure as hell does now. I'm tired of hearing about how the game is wrong. I'm tired of the endless patch debates to fix stuff that ain't broken. The Grenade Launcher is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. If it was called the SuperBombasticBlowi'nUpGuy Gun in Unreal3000XXX, everyone would love it, but because it's a grenade launcher, suddenly it has to perform to a few people's expectation's. Now the grenades from grenade launchers do all kinds of crazy stuff. Well, the game cannot and never will model reality. So everyone should quit whining about it and just play. Adapt and overcome or quit playing.

PS: patch 1.12 was the best to date!

earth.citizen wrote:

Hey, here's a crazy idea. Why don't we ask EA to get rid of the AA? And since we can't defend ourselves anymore (like it was working before anyway) let's get rid of all the airplanes and helicopters from the game. And since I'm tired of getting ran over like yesterday's newspaper in the driveway, let's get rid of all transports and armor. And getting shot is a real downer too, so let's take away all the guns from each kit... and force everyone to run around with a white bunny that they have to gently squeeze for ammunition! Yeah, and they have to throw that, but they can't JUMP and throw that... cause that would be like... I don't know.... not realistic and like.... cheating, or something. Yeah, that's the ticket... because damn-it, I paid like $50 bucks and EA owes me, man!

The game is the game. Could it be better? Sure. Does it need patching? Well it sure as hell does now. I'm tired of hearing about how the game is wrong. I'm tired of the endless patch debates to fix stuff that ain't broken. The Grenade Launcher is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. If it was called the SuperBombasticBlowi'nUpGuy Gun in Unreal3000XXX, everyone would love it, but because it's a grenade launcher, suddenly it has to perform to a few people's expectation's. Now the grenades from grenade launchers do all kinds of crazy stuff. Well, the game cannot and never will model reality. So everyone should quit whining about it and just play. Adapt and overcome or quit playing.

PS: patch 1.12 was the best to date!

I think you're missing the point here. I'm not whining about the AA, I happen to even like the new AA, it minimizes the time I spend chasing other jets around, and lets me be more effective towards influencing the ground battle. However, there is a significant problem with how the AA is implemented, mainly concerning the tendancy for friendly fire.

One example I forgot to mention was getting a solid AA lock on an enemy aircraft (be it helicopter or jet) and firing AA missiles and having them go straight at a closer friendly target without even attempting to hit the enemy I was "locked" onto.

If AA has to be limited to using it only when there are no other friendly aircraft anywhere on the map, really... what the hell is the point? If I get a missile lock on an enemy jet and I fire AA, it should damn well go after that enemy jet, not some friendly helicopter on the other side of my screen. If it it is flared off of that enemy jet, it should not reaquire said friendly helicopter just because it is the closest aircraft. Too many times have I seen AA missiles do a complete 180 after losing enemy lock, just to impact a friendly helicopter.

The AA, as it is, borders on useless because of the immense precautions you have to take to avoid friendly fire. I cannot make reasonable assumptions like firing AA with no friendlies in the direction I am firing, because the AA has a tendancy to completely turn around and hit the friendly anyways. When I shoot AA at an enemy in front of me, and the AA turns around and hits a friendly behind me, you can't even remotely suggest that there is some reasonable logic to how AA behaves. There is no way to predict where an AA missile will go if it misses the target (or if it even goes after the enemy target in the first place), all you can do it pray and hope it doesn't hit a friendly. I've been getting in the habit of firing 1 AA missiles, waiting 10 seconds, firing another... just to avoid completely TKing a friendly. A lot of time I will get team damage, no matter how many precautions I think I've taken, but at least I didn't get a full-fledged team-kill.

AA, even though it wasn't nearly as [theoretically] effective in 1.12, was a lot better, mainly because TKs were few a far between because you could take reasonable precautions for avoiding friendly fire. Now with 1.2, there is no such thing as a reasonable precaution when it comes to AA. That is a problem, and this is an attempt to get something fixed.

That's a problem, and I made this post to try to come to a reasonable solution. If I can provide multiple sources of proof for thie behavior I've personally witnessed, perhaps EA will listen and know how to solve the problem.

Edit: Another thing I'd like to add is that the whole point of AA is to achieve air superiority. Once you obtain air superiority with jets, your helicopters can be much more active, and be safer. What is the point of clearing the skies of enemy jets and clearing the ground of enemy AA if the end result is just an increased chance of TKing friendlies? As it is now, the more air superiority you achieve, the more likely it is to team-kill another aircraft on your team. More enemy jets are bound to leave the runway, and taking them down again means an increased risk of getting more TKs. If I'm dominating the map and destroy every single enemy aircraft, my reward should not be that it's 75% likely that I'll TK a friendly helicopter when shooting at a newly spawned enemy jet.

Last edited by Torin (2006-02-28 12:50:40)

So I suppose we should just give up on hoping any problems get fixed and just deal with things the way they are?

That's no attitude to have if you want the game to get better. Yes, the last patch (1.2) probably screwed more than it fixed, but it's still progress.

Torin wrote:

So I suppose we should just give up on hoping any problems get fixed and just deal with things the way they are?

That's no attitude to have if you want the game to get better. Yes, the last patch (1.2) probably screwed more than it fixed, but it's still progress.

How in the world is that progress?

Look, I'm not angry at you. I'm sorry if my remarks came off as a personal attack. I just watched some video of some pretty strange AA stuff and you make a valid point. The AA is broken. But it's only broken now because a small group of voiciferous clowns complained enough. Now look what we're stuck with.

My counter-point to your point is we need to stop taking up these "special-interest group" patch requests and address the issue with a more holistic approach. That sounds retarded, but I don't think the community can sustain too many more patches (especially when you consider the damage done with each successive patch). This cycle has to stop. Let's hope patch 1.21 is it.

I'm no fan of "realism" in a computer game, BUT....

...I had no problem with the AA implementation prior to 1.2. Those pilot bastards made my life a living hell at times, but it just seemed right in the grander-scheme of things and I thanked God that there were only 2 of them up there at any given time. Imagine how an Iraqi on the front-lines must have felt in 1991. Of course if my team's pilots were doing their job, we wouldn't be pushing up virtual daisies on the side of the virtual road. It should be hard to shoot down a plane.

...I had no problem with how the claymores worked. I question some people's use of them, but I thought 2 was plenty and if I walked in front of one, I should expect to get blown up, irregardless of who planted it. It's a bomb! Now they're everywhere and they litter the ground like cigarette butts and pennies. How this is an improvment escapes me.

...I had no problem with the grenade launcher. In fact I consider myself the noob-tube king. It's not as fun now and I've had to change my gameplay somewhat, but it's amusing watching a grenade blow thru a solid object (not!) or ricochet off the top of a Vodnik. Whatever.... if it makes some noob feel safer at night knowing I'm not going to jump around a corner and blow off their toes, I guess that's a good thing.

...and I had no problem with bunny-hopping or dolphin-diving. As long as I could do it too, what do I care if you jump around like an idiot? I never expected anyone to stand still while I drilled them full of holes anyway. Besides, anyone worth their salt wouldn't allow themselves to get so close to the enemy to need to jump around like a rabid ... uh.... whatever. You get the idea. Assualt rifles aren't designed for hand-to-hand combat anyway.

I guess what I would like to see is a mass migration back to 1.12 until EA is ready to deliver a quality patch. You know, EA/DICE isn't going to support this game forever and if the last patch sucks (like now) that's what's going to stick. Everyone who comes to the game late is going to assume that it's the end-all/be-all of the patches.

Just a few words = 1.2 pwnz

it means owns and you say it like "PWOON"

Saw some really weird aa missile behaviour 2 days ago on dalian plant.
I was in a J10 fighter and in the distance I saw this cobra helicopter coming up, I wasn't flying too fast but decided to decelerate some more so by the time he dropped his flares and I locked on again I wouldn't be too close for the missiles to miss. So I get lock, he immediately drops flares, but just stays hovering there. I quickly scan for any friendly heat signatures but can't find any.
Flares are gone, get lock again and I immediately fire 4 missiles at him (he's still not moving). He's not dropping any flares but instead of flying straight into this guy my missiles just start zigzagging wildly and eventually all just fly off to the left, without hitting anything.
By the time the whole show had finished I was flying so slow at that altitude I could barely accelerate enough to keep me from crashing into Mother Earth.

Those AA behaviour algorithms will forever remain a mystery to me. In dogfights they easily hit other jets doing mild to hard evasive maneouvres but they can't hit a chopper right in front of them which isn't moving???

Ah well, made in China, I guess...

Last edited by Rosse_modest (2006-03-02 04:22:52)