Yup, and I am not arguing the stat that more blacks commit crimes than whites................I am simply not buying the reason. In a nut shell you blame whitey, and I blame the individual who commits the crime......Crime is glamourized in rap and style and apparal. Gangsta is in fashion. Is this something you arte going to deny??Braddock wrote:
Statistics are based in fact too you know. They don't just make the numbers up.lowing wrote:
First of all, stereotypes are BASED in fact.Braddock wrote:
Do you judge every black person on their own merits? If so then stop worrying about stereotypes, they should never cloud your judgement.
You've already said you don't pay any heed to statistics, stop paying heed to stereotypes.
Second, just because I judge people based on merit does not mean GENERALLY speaking what I have said is not true. It just may not be true to the specific person in question. Will you deny or not, what I said in my orginal post that started this whole debate?
Third. I have already shown that prominant black figures already have established the observation that I relayed in these few forums. I simply agree with them..
I listen to rap music, and I never committed a crime...well, if you don't consider speeding a crime.lowing wrote:
Yup, and I am not arguing the stat that more blacks commit crimes than whites................I am simply not buying the reason. In a nut shell you blame whitey, and I blame the individual who commits the crime......Crime is glamourized in rap and style and apparal. Gangsta is in fashion. Is this something you arte going to deny??Braddock wrote:
Statistics are based in fact too you know. They don't just make the numbers up.lowing wrote:
First of all, stereotypes are BASED in fact.
Second, just because I judge people based on merit does not mean GENERALLY speaking what I have said is not true. It just may not be true to the specific person in question. Will you deny or not, what I said in my orginal post that started this whole debate?
Third. I have already shown that prominant black figures already have established the observation that I relayed in these few forums. I simply agree with them..
yeah and?? are you saying you disagree with me? Rap music does not glamourize gangstas and crime?sergeriver wrote:
I listen to rap music, and I never committed a crime...well, if you don't consider speeding a crime.lowing wrote:
Yup, and I am not arguing the stat that more blacks commit crimes than whites................I am simply not buying the reason. In a nut shell you blame whitey, and I blame the individual who commits the crime......Crime is glamourized in rap and style and apparal. Gangsta is in fashion. Is this something you arte going to deny??Braddock wrote:
Statistics are based in fact too you know. They don't just make the numbers up.
Meh, blaming rap for crime is like blaming videogames for violence.lowing wrote:
yeah and?? are you saying you disagree with me? Rap music does not glamourize gangstas and crime?sergeriver wrote:
I listen to rap music, and I never committed a crime...well, if you don't consider speeding a crime.lowing wrote:
Yup, and I am not arguing the stat that more blacks commit crimes than whites................I am simply not buying the reason. In a nut shell you blame whitey, and I blame the individual who commits the crime......Crime is glamourized in rap and style and apparal. Gangsta is in fashion. Is this something you arte going to deny??
I'm not 'blaming whitey' as you like you put it, I am simply positing that the baggage left behind by years of entrenched, institutional racism and the cycle of poverty that inevitably followed on from that era are CONTRIBUTING factors towards the high number of African American criminals in modern society. No one is saying it is an excuse for their actions and no one is saying they are the sole factors, just that they are an important factor in a huge, complex social problem. Are you suggesting African Americans are simply innately predisposed towards to crime? Because that would be racism, plain and simple.lowing wrote:
Yup, and I am not arguing the stat that more blacks commit crimes than whites................I am simply not buying the reason. In a nut shell you blame whitey, and I blame the individual who commits the crime......Crime is glamourized in rap and style and apparal. Gangsta is in fashion. Is this something you arte going to deny??Braddock wrote:
Statistics are based in fact too you know. They don't just make the numbers up.lowing wrote:
First of all, stereotypes are BASED in fact.
Second, just because I judge people based on merit does not mean GENERALLY speaking what I have said is not true. It just may not be true to the specific person in question. Will you deny or not, what I said in my orginal post that started this whole debate?
Third. I have already shown that prominant black figures already have established the observation that I relayed in these few forums. I simply agree with them..
Serge, I did not blame rap, I said rap glamourized it...I blame individuals for their actions. Now, will you here and now, admit that rap music glamourizes crime? Yeas or nosergeriver wrote:
Meh, blaming rap for crime is like blaming videogames for violence.lowing wrote:
yeah and?? are you saying you disagree with me? Rap music does not glamourize gangstas and crime?sergeriver wrote:
I listen to rap music, and I never committed a crime...well, if you don't consider speeding a crime.
No I am not saying these criminals are commiting these crimes BECAUSE they are black. I am saying blacks are commiting most of the crimes, like the OP suggested, (well in the other thread).Braddock wrote:
I'm not 'blaming whitey' as you like you put it, I am simply positing that the baggage left behind by years of entrenched, institutional racism and the cycle of poverty that inevitably followed on from that era are CONTRIBUTING factors towards the high number of African American criminals in modern society. No one is saying it is an excuse for their actions and no one is saying they are the sole factors, just that they are an important factor in a huge, complex social problem. Are you suggesting African Americans are simply innately predisposed towards to crime? Because that would be racism, plain and simple.lowing wrote:
Yup, and I am not arguing the stat that more blacks commit crimes than whites................I am simply not buying the reason. In a nut shell you blame whitey, and I blame the individual who commits the crime......Crime is glamourized in rap and style and apparal. Gangsta is in fashion. Is this something you arte going to deny??Braddock wrote:
Statistics are based in fact too you know. They don't just make the numbers up.
As soon as your reasons are admissable in a court of law then I will buy them. Until then, it is bullshit, and has nothing to do with an individuals actions.
Kinda. But so does Grand Theft Auto.lowing wrote:
Serge, I did not blame rap, I said rap glamourized it...I blame individuals for their actions. Now, will you here and now, admit that rap music glamourizes crime? Yeas or nosergeriver wrote:
Meh, blaming rap for crime is like blaming videogames for violence.lowing wrote:
yeah and?? are you saying you disagree with me? Rap music does not glamourize gangstas and crime?
Ok well that is half of my comment that you labeled me a racist over, that you now agree to, shall we go ahead and disect the rest of it and see whatelse you might not be able to deny?sergeriver wrote:
Kinda. But so does Grand Theft Auto.lowing wrote:
Serge, I did not blame rap, I said rap glamourized it...I blame individuals for their actions. Now, will you here and now, admit that rap music glamourizes crime? Yeas or nosergeriver wrote:
Meh, blaming rap for crime is like blaming videogames for violence.
- globefish23
- sophisticated slacker
- +334|6746|Graz, Austria
With a black, lesbian.m3thod wrote:
if i ever move to the US ima gonna live in Maine.
Dude, it's the way you talk. Go read what you posted.lowing wrote:
Ok well that is half of my comment that you labeled me a racist over, that you now agree to, shall we go ahead and disect the rest of it and see whatelse you might not be able to deny?sergeriver wrote:
Kinda. But so does Grand Theft Auto.lowing wrote:
Serge, I did not blame rap, I said rap glamourized it...I blame individuals for their actions. Now, will you here and now, admit that rap music glamourizes crime? Yeas or no
Sorry Serge, I am not ate up with political correctness............Now, do you wanna go back and see whatelse you agree with that you called me a racist over??sergeriver wrote:
Dude, it's the way you talk. Go read what you posted.lowing wrote:
Ok well that is half of my comment that you labeled me a racist over, that you now agree to, shall we go ahead and disect the rest of it and see whatelse you might not be able to deny?sergeriver wrote:
Kinda. But so does Grand Theft Auto.
Nothing m8.lowing wrote:
Sorry Serge, I am not ate up with political correctness............Now, do you wanna go back and see whatelse you agree with that you called me a racist over??sergeriver wrote:
Dude, it's the way you talk. Go read what you posted.lowing wrote:
Ok well that is half of my comment that you labeled me a racist over, that you now agree to, shall we go ahead and disect the rest of it and see whatelse you might not be able to deny?
Is your view of life so simplistic that you never question why certain trends arise in different sections of society?lowing wrote:
No I am not saying these criminals are commiting these crimes BECAUSE they are black. I am saying blacks are commiting most of the crimes, like the OP suggested, (well in the other thread).Braddock wrote:
I'm not 'blaming whitey' as you like you put it, I am simply positing that the baggage left behind by years of entrenched, institutional racism and the cycle of poverty that inevitably followed on from that era are CONTRIBUTING factors towards the high number of African American criminals in modern society. No one is saying it is an excuse for their actions and no one is saying they are the sole factors, just that they are an important factor in a huge, complex social problem. Are you suggesting African Americans are simply innately predisposed towards to crime? Because that would be racism, plain and simple.lowing wrote:
Yup, and I am not arguing the stat that more blacks commit crimes than whites................I am simply not buying the reason. In a nut shell you blame whitey, and I blame the individual who commits the crime......Crime is glamourized in rap and style and apparal. Gangsta is in fashion. Is this something you arte going to deny??
As soon as your reasons are admissable in a court of law then I will buy them. Until then, it is bullshit, and has nothing to do with an individuals actions.
Things happen for a reason lowing, aliens didn't come down from another planet and put a monolith in the ghetto to inspire all these African Americans to go forth and commit crime. Society should always look within itself and ask itself why certain problems arise from certain situations.
Take LeCorbusier the architiect as an example, he invented the concept of tower block housing. He thought it was a great solution for low-income family housing and yet it was found consistently that if you put too many people living in such crowded, high-rise situations, without sufficient amenities, endemic antisocial behaviour would arise. Society learned from these mistakes and nowadays you're more likely to see tenement tower blocks being torn down rather than built. All those people in the tower blocks were responsible for their own fate too and yet anti-social behaviour was consistently a problem. The cramped tower blocks and lack of amenities weren't an excuse for any single criminal act but they definitely seemed to be a contributing or motivating factor.
If you think the entire African American population can go from being downtrodden and treated like dirt to being upwardly mobile, successful and socially well-adjusted in one generation then you are away with the fairies.
.We agree that 40 years ago and beyond.....The entire black population was downtrodden and could not get ahead..........Well, now it appears there is actually a middle class of black families.......So explain to me how other than personal factors, can there be a majority of black middle class, when only 40 years ago we had their face in the mud. For me the answer is simple...........People are different........Some are self motivating, some are not, The reason there is more black middle class is there are more blacks who are self motivating, just like anyone else....THose that use the excuse of slavery and civil rights, when they are 20 fucking years old, is looking for a scapegoat for their own personal failures............and you are jumping at the opportunity to buy into it..Braddock wrote:
Is your view of life so simplistic that you never question why certain trends arise in different sections of society?lowing wrote:
No I am not saying these criminals are commiting these crimes BECAUSE they are black. I am saying blacks are commiting most of the crimes, like the OP suggested, (well in the other thread).Braddock wrote:
I'm not 'blaming whitey' as you like you put it, I am simply positing that the baggage left behind by years of entrenched, institutional racism and the cycle of poverty that inevitably followed on from that era are CONTRIBUTING factors towards the high number of African American criminals in modern society. No one is saying it is an excuse for their actions and no one is saying they are the sole factors, just that they are an important factor in a huge, complex social problem. Are you suggesting African Americans are simply innately predisposed towards to crime? Because that would be racism, plain and simple.
As soon as your reasons are admissable in a court of law then I will buy them. Until then, it is bullshit, and has nothing to do with an individuals actions.
Things happen for a reason lowing, aliens didn't come down from another planet and put a monolith in the ghetto to inspire all these African Americans to go forth and commit crime. Society should always look within itself and ask itself why certain problems arise from certain situations.
Take LeCorbusier the architiect as an example, he invented the concept of tower block housing. He thought it was a great solution for low-income family housing and yet it was found consistently that if you put too many people living in such crowded, high-rise situations, without sufficient amenities, endemic antisocial behaviour would arise. Society learned from these mistakes and nowadays you're more likely to see tenement tower blocks being torn down rather than built. All those people in the tower blocks were responsible for their own fate too and yet anti-social behaviour was consistently a problem. The cramped tower blocks and lack of amenities weren't an excuse for any single criminal act but they definitely seemed to be a contributing or motivating factor.
If you think the entire African American population can go from being downtrodden and treated like dirt to being upwardly mobile, successful and socially well-adjusted in one generation then you are away with the fairies.
Obviously some people can achieve great things in the face of adversity (you've regaled us with your own tales of triumph against the odds) and this black middle class you speak of is testament to that but the entire black population of America were all in the same downtrodden position up until 40 years ago. White people never had that kind of collective disadvantage.lowing wrote:
We agree that 40 years ago and beyond.....The entire black population was downtrodden and could not get ahead..........Well, now it appears there is actually a middle class of black families.......So explain to me how other than personal factors, can there be a majority of black middle class, when only 40 years ago we had their face in the mud. For me the answer is simple...........People are different........Some are self motivating, some are not, The reason there is more black middle class is there are more blacks who are self motivating, just like anyone else....THose that use the excuse of slavery and civil rights, when they are 20 fucking years old, is looking for a scapegoat for their own personal failures............and you are jumping at the opportunity to buy into it..
To expect that ALL African Americans should be able to make the leap to upwardly mobile middle class in one fell swoop is ludicrous. Different communities have it worse than others and there are several different variables involved. Why are you so intent on completely ruling out deep-seated, institutional racial hatred as a contributing factor for social problems? Do you believe that the problems of one generation simply never pass to the next? You wouldn't make a good anthropologist or sociologist lowing.
AND JUST TO CLARIFY ONCE MORE, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IT'S SINKING IN FOR YOU: THE ARGUMENT THAT DEEP-SEATED, INSTITUTIONAL RACISM FROM AS RECENT AS 40 YEARS AGO HAS BEEN A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR TOWARDS THE POVERTY CYCLE THAT MANY AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITIES FIND THEMSELVES IN, AND HENCE A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR TOWARDS THE HIGH CRIME RATES WITHIN THOSE COMMUNITIES, IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO EXCUSE THE PEOPLE CARRYING OUT THESE CRIMES. IT IS MERELY AN ASSESSMENT OF THE SOCIAL FACTORS AT PLAY. IT IS NOT AN EXCUSE.
Last edited by Braddock (2008-06-24 11:10:23)
There is a black middle class, and there is a white middle class. For either to exist there needs to be an upper and a lower class for each.Braddock wrote:
Obviously some people can achieve great things in the face of adversity (you've regaled us with your own tales of triumph against the odds) and this black middle class you speak of is testament to that but the entire black population of America were all in the same downtrodden position up until 40 years ago. White people never had that kind of collective disadvantage.lowing wrote:
We agree that 40 years ago and beyond.....The entire black population was downtrodden and could not get ahead..........Well, now it appears there is actually a middle class of black families.......So explain to me how other than personal factors, can there be a majority of black middle class, when only 40 years ago we had their face in the mud. For me the answer is simple...........People are different........Some are self motivating, some are not, The reason there is more black middle class is there are more blacks who are self motivating, just like anyone else....THose that use the excuse of slavery and civil rights, when they are 20 fucking years old, is looking for a scapegoat for their own personal failures............and you are jumping at the opportunity to buy into it..
To expect that ALL African Americans should be able to make the leap to upwardly mobile middle class in one fell swoop is ludicrous. Different communities have it worse than others and there are several different variables involved. Why are you so intent on completely ruling out deep-seated, institutional racial hatred as a contributing factor for social problems? Do you believe that the problems of one generation simply never pass to the next? You wouldn't make a good anthropologist or sociologist lowing.
AND JUST TO CLARIFY ONCE MORE, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IT'S SINKING IN FOR YOU: THE ARGUMENT THAT DEEP-SEATED, INSTITUTIONAL RACISM FROM AS RECENT AS 40 YEARS AGO HAS BEEN A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR TOWARDS THE POVERTY CYCLE THAT MANY AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITIES FIND THEMSELVES IN, AND HENCE A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR TOWARDS THE HIGH CRIME RATES WITHIN THOSE COMMUNITIES, IS NOT AN ATTEMPT TO EXCUSE THE PEOPLE CARRYING OUT THESE CRIMES. IT IS MERELY AN ASSESSMENT OF THE SOCIAL FACTORS AT PLAY. IT IS NOT AN EXCUSE.
Never in a 1000 years will ether race see an entirity of that race in the middle class bracket or above...........never. For either race, the only thing that is left are those with the willingness NOT to allow themselves to be in a lower class and those that are not as motivated..slavery has nothing to with it, IF it did there would be NO black middle class now. The only difference between the 2 lower classes is, you allow blacks to have a "social reason" for failure as to where whites do not.........The way I see it, neither has an excuse for failure when you are able bodied and you do not even remember the civil rights movement, if you were even fucking alive.
Now, after saying this. Lets move back to the beginning and simply deny that rap does not glamourize crime and gangsta life. Deny that successful black people are NOT viewed as sellouts by those that have not tried to succeed. Denuy that gang life is NOT worshipped as fashionable.. These are the things that I have said........SO simply deny it, even after Cosby and others have said the exact same things......
middle class is middle class
Why Are So Many Serial Killers in the USA White?
More white people in the US perhaps. I think the bigger question is " why are so few whites in the NBA?"
More white people in the US perhaps. I think the bigger question is " why are so few whites in the NBA?"
So all working class people living in poor neighbourhoods are only there because they are lazy and couldn't be bothered to better themselves? Inherited situations of poverty and other social factors don't play a part in their situation? They simply lack the desire and effort needed to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps? Okay, I think I have it now.lowing wrote:
There is a black middle class, and there is a white middle class. For either to exist there needs to be an upper and a lower class for each.
Never in a 1000 years will ether race see an entirity of that race in the middle class bracket or above...........never. For either race, the only thing that is left are those with the willingness NOT to allow themselves to be in a lower class and those that are not as motivated..slavery has nothing to with it, IF it did there would be NO black middle class now. The only difference between the 2 lower classes is, you allow blacks to have a "social reason" for failure as to where whites do not.........The way I see it, neither has an excuse for failure when you are able bodied and you do not even remember the civil rights movement, if you were even fucking alive.
Now, after saying this. Lets move back to the beginning and simply deny that rap does not glamourize crime and gangsta life. Deny that successful black people are NOT viewed as sellouts by those that have not tried to succeed. Denuy that gang life is NOT worshipped as fashionable.. These are the things that I have said........SO simply deny it, even after Cosby and others have said the exact same things......
Getting back to hip hop culture i have already stated that I think the ideals espoused in rap culture are ultimately bad for society (and not just black culture as more and more rich white kids are getting into it).
As for the whole Uncle Tom thing, i actually think you misunderstand that term. We have a similar term here in Ireland called West Brit meaning any Irishman who attempts to take the cultural appearance of a Brit or attempts to ingratiate themselves with British high society...it's not about success in general terms.
lolThorax wrote:
Because white people are the only race smart enough to commit a crime and get away with it multiple times. When we go out, we go ALL OUT, none of this petty liquor store bullshit.
Did this turn into a raciest not raciest thread???? because why most serial killers are in the US and most or white because of the interpretation of the meaning Serial Killer..
"A serial killer is a person who murders three or more people with a "cooling off" period between each murder and whose motivation for killing is largely based on psychological gratification.[1] One hypothesis is that all serial killers suffer from some form of Antisocial Personality Disorder.[2] They are usually not psychotic, and thus may appear to be quite normal and often even charming, a state of adaptation which Hervey Cleckley calls the "mask of sanity." There is sometimes a sexual element to the murders. The murders may have been completed/attempted in a similar fashion and the victims may have had something in common, for example occupation, race, or sex."
A serial killer is someone who kills for the Psychological gratification of it, were in most other countries and in the poorer regions it is done for money and/or power.. Basically a serial killer is someone who murders for the Sole Purpose of Murder and that's it..
"A serial killer is a person who murders three or more people with a "cooling off" period between each murder and whose motivation for killing is largely based on psychological gratification.[1] One hypothesis is that all serial killers suffer from some form of Antisocial Personality Disorder.[2] They are usually not psychotic, and thus may appear to be quite normal and often even charming, a state of adaptation which Hervey Cleckley calls the "mask of sanity." There is sometimes a sexual element to the murders. The murders may have been completed/attempted in a similar fashion and the victims may have had something in common, for example occupation, race, or sex."
A serial killer is someone who kills for the Psychological gratification of it, were in most other countries and in the poorer regions it is done for money and/or power.. Basically a serial killer is someone who murders for the Sole Purpose of Murder and that's it..
1. I am a working class individual and I do not live in a poor nieghborhood, MOST of American middle class does not live in poor nieghborhoods, they live in ...........well............middle class nieghborhoods......Braddock wrote:
So all working class people living in poor neighbourhoods are only there because they are lazy and couldn't be bothered to better themselves? Inherited situations of poverty and other social factors don't play a part in their situation? They simply lack the desire and effort needed to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps? Okay, I think I have it now.lowing wrote:
There is a black middle class, and there is a white middle class. For either to exist there needs to be an upper and a lower class for each.
Never in a 1000 years will ether race see an entirity of that race in the middle class bracket or above...........never. For either race, the only thing that is left are those with the willingness NOT to allow themselves to be in a lower class and those that are not as motivated..slavery has nothing to with it, IF it did there would be NO black middle class now. The only difference between the 2 lower classes is, you allow blacks to have a "social reason" for failure as to where whites do not.........The way I see it, neither has an excuse for failure when you are able bodied and you do not even remember the civil rights movement, if you were even fucking alive.
Now, after saying this. Lets move back to the beginning and simply deny that rap does not glamourize crime and gangsta life. Deny that successful black people are NOT viewed as sellouts by those that have not tried to succeed. Denuy that gang life is NOT worshipped as fashionable.. These are the things that I have said........SO simply deny it, even after Cosby and others have said the exact same things......
Getting back to hip hop culture i have already stated that I think the ideals espoused in rap culture are ultimately bad for society (and not just black culture as more and more rich white kids are getting into it).
As for the whole Uncle Tom thing, i actually think you misunderstand that term. We have a similar term here in Ireland called West Brit meaning any Irishman who attempts to take the cultural appearance of a Brit or attempts to ingratiate themselves with British high society...it's not about success in general terms.
2. agreed...........that is to say, you agree with me
3.I do not misunderstand the term Uncle Tom....and niether do you. You just refuse to admit that I was right about it.
I'm being a realist on this issue lowing. I believe that some people have something inside them that enables them to rise out of the shitty circumstances they find themselves in, it could be a combination of societal factors and life defining moments or it could be something more innate in their psychological make-up that gives them this ability. However, I also believe that some people need to be pushed and shoved continually in the right direction through life i.e. they are lazy and/or stupid. If you are the latter and also happen to be on the wrong side of the rich-poor divide then quite frankly you are fucked, if on the other hand you are on the right side of the rich-poor divide you may end up being President, just look at George Bush...he's lazy and stupid and he's just finishing his second term in the White House.lowing wrote:
1. I am a working class individual and I do not live in a poor nieghborhood, MOST of American middle class does not live in poor nieghborhoods, they live in ...........well............middle class nieghborhoods......
No, you agree with me!lowing wrote:
2. agreed...........that is to say, you agree with me
No, my point was that you can be a rich, successful Irishman without being a West Brit i.e. still proud of your Irish culture, heritage, accent etc. and likewise you can be a rich, successful black man without being an uncle Tom i.e. proud of your black heritage, culture, accent etc.lowing wrote:
3.I do not misunderstand the term Uncle Tom....and niether do you. You just refuse to admit that I was right about it.
Last edited by Braddock (2008-06-25 04:27:39)
Is the fact surprising when 9/10 people in the UK are white?m3thod wrote:
Well the stats don't lie.
Approximately 9/10 serial killers are white males between the ages of 20 and 35, and cultural clichés present him as figures with a history of child abuse (possibly an over-possessive mother), petty crime, and a sexual motivation that underlies their murders. Far from being the manifestations of insanity, or irrational thought, serial killings are often patterned according to specific characteristics or conventions that grant the crimes a distinctive inherent logic.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/collective/A4526129
Percentages ppl. Use em!