BF2S Forums No ice at the North Pole

paul386 wrote:

Spark wrote:

paul386 wrote:

All that chart shows is a bunch of change that happens frequently and erratically. WITHOUT HUMAN INTERVENTION!

It goes up, it goes down.

And it also shows are current temperatures are well within standard fluctuations.

Are you looking at the same picture as us? Because I see a biiiig spike at the end.

One more thing. You seem to have not noticed that while the vast majority of sources say otherwise, you are basing your entire opinion on one source, one journalist who doesn't write about anything else at all! That strikes me as amusingly odd.

The spike is a computer model, which didn't really happen.

Many intellectuals do not agree with the commonly accepted global warming explanation. For example, Duke University published a major study that humans play a minimal effect on Earth's climate.

http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2005/09/sunwarm.html

Not agreeing with the explanations is not the same as denying the obvious long term increase in temperature. You are being extremly contradictory. First you say the warming isn't really happening. Then you follow up with an article explaining the Suns role in the warming.

Did you read your entire article? I did.

This study does not discount that human-linked greenhouse gases contribute to global warming, they stressed. "Those gases would still give a contribution, but not so strong as was thought," Scafetta said.

ever see the movie Cat's Eye or read the short story Quitters Inc. by Stephen King?

I worry that the global warming crowd might eventually become like the company Quitters Inc.  In the story, a guy wants to quit smoking so he goes to Quitters, Inc and they give him some patches, gum, etc.  He sneaks a cigarette and then spies for the company detect this.  to make a long story short, the company bullies the guy into obeying them by hurting his cat, his wife, his family, etc.  Then, to make matters worse, the company decides he needs to lose weight.  What's next, he needs to dress a certain way, think a certain way, etc?

this is an extreme example, but my point is that i'm worried about what is next.  many people on this board are already doing responsible things that have been quoted by green people to do - and they still cry its not enough.  how much is enough?  do we have to live in a hut, drive bicycles to work 40 miles away, grow our own food, change to a vegan lifestyle, etc? 

i want to help the planet as much as the rest of you all do, but when what i do is still not enough, what's next?

naightknifar wrote:

Vax wrote:

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

QFT!!

Wake the fuck up people..

Ok I'm awake.

What should I do?

I already try to conserve, I have not even run my AC yet this summer, and it is hitting 90F now.
I'd rather open the windows at night.
I drive a tincan 4 cylinder toyota and I try to make my driving count even though my car only sips the gas. 
I will turn off the tv right now since I'm not watching it

Is this a call to action? Is 2012 doom coming? Vote Obama for change? _{/sorry, that one is already worn out}

Frankly I say, if the world is going to die, enjoy it whilst it's here.
Many people like you are conserving to a stupid amount, but it is unrecognised.

Fuck it! Go turn on your AC!

I'm sorry but are you serious?! That has got to be the most ignorant argument I've ever heard...believe it or not Naight we're not the only species that inhabit this planet and what you're saying is utterly selfish.

Ever heard of sustained development?

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

I'm sorry but are you serious?! That has got to be the most ignorant argument I've ever heard...believe it or not Naight we're not the only species that inhabit this planet and what you're saying is utterly selfish.

Ever heard of sustained development?

we in the US are 300M.  china tops 1B and so does India.  What are china and India doing to contribute to reduction in greenhouse gasses?  can we role model based on their responsible behavior?

CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

I'm sorry but are you serious?! That has got to be the most ignorant argument I've ever heard...believe it or not Naight we're not the only species that inhabit this planet and what you're saying is utterly selfish.

Ever heard of sustained development?

we in the US are 300M.  china tops 1B and so does India.  What are china and India doing to contribute to reduction in greenhouse gasses?  can we role model based on their responsible behavior?

I'm sorry but are you serious?! That has got to be the most ignorant argument I've ever heard...believe it or not the US produces over 4 times the greenhouse gases per person then those living in China or India. Why should the Chinese have to remain in a subsistent lifestyle so those in America can carry on polluting the world at their excessive rate, what you're saying is utterly selfish.

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:

can we role model based on their responsible behavior?

Maybe not but as a superpower whose influence is great you should be doing even more to cut your emissions..China and India are criminals with what they're doing to the environment and I'm sure the long term effect of their pollution will prove to be the exact opposite of sustained development. I wouldn't know how to persuade them to change their wicked ways as it seems they're too unwilling to change their production methods..which is sad!

true, very true.  what's interesting is that both china and india ratified the kyoto protocol which was supposed to require govts to reduce greenhouse emmisions.  i truly wonder if they are living up to those standards today. 

source:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ky … ignatories. 

Yes, US signed but did not ratify the treaty

source:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Prot … ted_States. 

what i found interesting is that Bush is beaten down for not ratifying this yet Clinton did not do it either (he didn't push it for vote in senate).  Further, perhaps Bush has a point in that China is granted a significant exemption - why not other countries - or why is china special?  The other concern is how much impact this has on the GDP of the country.  Going green is not going to be cheap i'm afraid.

naightknifar wrote:

Everybody argues, nobody is right, and yet everyone still seems to think they can change the world.

1.) Debating and arguing= two different things.
2.) Nobody is right? With that assertion you're sure as hell not right.
3.)Can we change the world through bf2s? Probably not..are, however, our attitudes better than this?->

Frankly I say, if the world is going to die, enjoy it whilst it's here..Fuck it! Go turn on your AC!

Fucking eh they are

I'll say it again...wake the fuck up

Last edited by ..teddy..jimmy (2008-06-28 02:52:15)

PureFodder wrote:

CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:

in 2006, the US produced 2100 Million metric tons of CO2, whereas China actually produced 4800 Million metric tons of CO2.  so this is actually saying China is 2x as much greenhouse gas production as US.  India is indeed lagging as they only have 850M metric tons.

But as China supports over 4 times as many people at the US, the per capita CO2 production of china is half that of the US.

ok - point taken.  sure is different than the 4x number i got earlier from someone else.

what alarms me however is the 'rate' i was talking about in my earlier post.  if they sustain that 45% increase rate over the next decade, what kind of damage will that do?  i wonder if it can be sustained by them to even surpass the US?

M.O.A.B wrote:

Burwhale the Avenger wrote:

Climate change is real, partially its caused by humans, and its gonna bite us on the ass.

End the excuses and help to do something about it.

There's two kinds of Global Warming,

Global Warming - Naturalyl influenced, but strangely the only title thrown around.
Enhanced Global Warming - Human influenced.

The extra word eats up airtime.

Only explanation I can think of (I think leaving out the 'enhanced' is rather obtuse as well)

ok - point taken.  sure is different than the 4x number i got earlier from someone else.

what alarms me however is the 'rate' i was talking about in my earlier post.  if they sustain that 45% increase rate over the next decade, what kind of damage will that do?  i wonder if it can be sustained by them to even surpass the US?

Well that's exactly the issue - but if we don't change our patterns, habits etc somewhat, do you think it's possible they will?

CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

I'm sorry but are you serious?! That has got to be the most ignorant argument I've ever heard...believe it or not the US produces over 4 times the greenhouse gases per person then those living in China or India. Why should the Chinese have to remain in a subsistent lifestyle so those in America can carry on polluting the world at their excessive rate, what you're saying is utterly selfish.

there's no need to use derogatory terms like 'ignorant'.  what i would have hoped for in your enlightening post is some references that prove your assertion.  can you help point out where you get the 4x number?  oh...and i'm being sincere here - not smartazzed.

by the way, i just did some searching and came up with world carbon dioxide emissions in an excel file here:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/internation … oxide.html

in 2006, the US produced 2100 Million metric tons of CO2, whereas China actually produced 4800 Million metric tons of CO2.  so this is actually saying China is 2x as much greenhouse gas production as US.  India is indeed lagging as they only have 850M metric tons.

another interesting thing i noticed is looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Prot … since_1990, i found that the RATE at which greenhouse gasses were being produced by China and India between 1990 and today is about 45% each whereas the US was increasing at only 16%.  So this is 3x greater for China. 

if you worry about large amounts of greenhouse gasses polluting the world, i'd look harder at China.  maybe i read those numbers wrong though.

That doesn't sound right.

The Guardian wrote:

But according to the Netherlands Environmental Assessment Agency, soaring demand for coal to generate electricity and a surge in cement production have helped to push China's recorded emissions for 2006 beyond those from the US already. It says China produced 6,200m tonnes of CO2 last year, compared with 5,800m tonnes from the US. Britain produced about 600m tonnes.

Jos Olivier, a senior scientist at the government agency who compiled the figures, said: "There will still be some uncertainty about the exact numbers, but this is the best and most up to date estimate available. China relies very heavily on coal and all of the recent trends show their emissions going up very quickly." China's emissions were 2% below those of the US in 2005. Per head of population, China's pollution remains relatively low - about a quarter of that in the US

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 … ina.usnews

do the carbon neutral products cost more or less to produce?

If smoking pot was bad for the environment the Global Warming crowd would disban instantly.

I am for not polluting, I am for clean air, water, healthy fisheries, healthy forests, NOT OVER POPULATING......  but everytime I hear some fucking hippy telling me the world is coming to the end because a cow farted I am forced to release CFC laced hairspray imported from China.

The Ice age is coming to an end, it is supposed to so get the fuck over it.  If you want to save the world go to China and India and start killing women because it does more good than using both sides of your toilet paper and standing around waving signs on the weekend.

Lotta_Drool wrote:

If smoking pot was bad for the environment the Global Warming crowd would disban instantly.

lol....

add making movies and flying private jets to that list.  Also include being friends with celebs who some of which use almost triple the water a normal person uses.