That would be very relevent if I lived 200+ years ago, but I fear not the christians today or tommorrow because it is the muslims that cut little girls heads off.ReTox wrote:
Come on, get a clue. You think just because you say "since 2000" that it negates my argument? Christian history is just as bloody and vicious, if not more so, than other religions. How many Aboriginal Peoples have suffered over the last 100 years because of forced Christianity? How many Muslims were killed during the crusades. How about Northern Ireland? Catholic versus Protestants... kinda like Shia vs Shiite. If someone is an asshole it doesn't matter if they are Christian, Agnostic, or Martian... they are still an asshole.usmarine2 wrote:
blah blah. Show me one time since 2000 you saw a group of baptists or catholics chop off peoples heads in the streets and fire guns into the air, cheering, and at the same time yelling shit about god?
Ill wait.
evolution of a religion and its follower's is what i meant. geez retox.
Evolution of a religion is an oxymoron. Most religions operate in a very narrow acceptance of change. They are stagnant and not evolving.
Consider this scenario:
Two people believe in the same God or Deity and write down their thoughts on how life should be lived. A thousand years go by and two people read their thoughts... and start killing each other because the other one won't do it the way they the other thinks is right.
It's simple... religion is not the problem... the problem is fucked up people plain and simple.
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yes but the crusades.........Lotta_Drool wrote:
That would be very relevent if I lived 200+ years ago, but I fear not the christians today or tommorrow because it is the muslims that cut little girls heads off.
The Jews killed Jesus Christ by nailing him to a cross while the crowds cheered, we should retaliate immediately by destroying Israel today. Completely justified! lets face it, Jews are violent and want to kill christian leaders.usmarine2 wrote:
yes but the crusades.........Lotta_Drool wrote:
That would be very relevent if I lived 200+ years ago, but I fear not the christians today or tommorrow because it is the muslims that cut little girls heads off.
yes but medieval times....Lotta_Drool wrote:
The Jews killed Jesus Christ by nailing him to a cross while the crowds cheered, we should retaliate immediately by destroying Israel today. Completely justified! lets face it, Jews are violent and want to kill christian leaders.usmarine2 wrote:
yes but the crusades.........Lotta_Drool wrote:
That would be very relevent if I lived 200+ years ago, but I fear not the christians today or tommorrow because it is the muslims that cut little girls heads off.
It doesn't matter what religion or what time frame, the violence is cyclical. Anyone who is different, anyone who disagrees, anyone who incites change... welcome to the new world order. You'd think that thousands of years of bloodshed might have made more people realize it isn't the best way... but ignorance seems to be parallel with the violence.usmarine2 wrote:
yes but medieval times....Lotta_Drool wrote:
The Jews killed Jesus Christ by nailing him to a cross while the crowds cheered, we should retaliate immediately by destroying Israel today. Completely justified! lets face it, Jews are violent and want to kill christian leaders.usmarine2 wrote:
yes but the crusades.........
I fear, in a sense, the Christians of today... especially the Bible thumping ones, too much influence over government in the US. I'd say most Christians are good people who walk the middle between their religious beliefs and their own "gut" morals. Same as most Muslims. However, the extremists, on any side, are the ones that people wrongly associate with a religion. When I think Christian I don't think someone working a blue collar job and coming home to a couple of beers while watching the baseball game. I see a woman in a very proper dress with her bible and holier than thou attitude. Which is indicative of Christianity and which is the extreme?
It's context. And over-arching statements belittling a people based on the actions of a few is not the way progress is made as a race.
Agreed, and especially with the last line...but it would've carried more weight had your first reply in this thread NOT been to 'equalize' the event with that of Christian history. And by the by...cavemen gang-raped their women...it was called perpetuation of the species....today it's called criminal. I think more recent "Christian" acts of violence would be more apropos.ReTox wrote:
Come on, get a clue. You think just because you say "since 2000" that it negates my argument? Christian history is just as bloody and vicious, if not more so, than other religions. How many Aboriginal Peoples have suffered over the last 100 years because of forced Christianity? How many Muslims were killed during the crusades. How about Northern Ireland? Catholic versus Protestants... kinda like Shia vs Shiite. If someone is an asshole it doesn't matter if they are Christian, Agnostic, or Martian... they are still an asshole.usmarine2 wrote:
blah blah. Show me one time since 2000 you saw a group of baptists or catholics chop off peoples heads in the streets and fire guns into the air, cheering, and at the same time yelling shit about god?
Ill wait.
evolution of a religion and its follower's is what i meant. geez retox.
Evolution of a religion is an oxymoron. Most religions operate in a very narrow acceptance of change. They are stagnant and not evolving.
Consider this scenario:
Two people believe in the same God or Deity and write down their thoughts on how life should be lived. A thousand years go by and two people read their thoughts... and start killing each other because the other one won't do it the way they the other thinks is right.
It's simple... religion is not the problem... the problem is fucked up people plain and simple.
Last edited by 462nd NSP653 (2008-06-28 14:56:45)
The issue was brought up because of a remark about a religion. I used Christianity simply as the vehicle for my argument guesstimating most people reading this would relate for best impact.462nd NSP653 wrote:
Agreed, and especially with the last line...but it would've carried more weight had your first reply in this thread NOT been to 'equalize' the event with that of Christian history. And by the by...cavemen gang-raped their women...it was called perpetuation of the species....today it's called criminal. I think more recent "Christian" acts of violence would be more apropos.
Any religion has its problems, and most have a history of violence because of the fact that we as human beings can't help but define everything we see. And when we get attached to those definitions like in the case of religion we feel a need to create a schism. I think this is because we feel that if your view is so radically different from mine than how can you possibly contemplate and accept my view... and vice versa It is a hideous ignorance that we have to get over.
Right now, and the media is really good at stirring the pot, the issue is religion. Governments talk about acceptance but in reality they don't practice what they preach. Neither side wants to talk with the other so there never is any real progress.
As for a modern example of Christianity I call attention to what Britain did to the Ottoman Empire after WWI. They took everything west of the Jordan river of what was a very large Palestine and gave it to an Emir and this land eventually became Jordan. The remaining stuff east of the Jordan was designated the Jewish Palestinian homeland. Tensions were already very high and Britain pretty much threw everyone into a pressure cooker and cranked up the heat. How many have died since 1923 between Israel and Palestine?
I'm not saying deaths would not have occurred if this wouldn't have happened but I would guess that any dispute involving land would be intensified if that land suddenly became ridiculously smaller.
The sad part is that people forget at the time of Jesus most Jews and Palestinians accepted each other fine and even lived side by side. I know one thing... in a 1000 years the land still won't give a shit about who's on it.
Last edited by ReTox (2008-06-28 15:50:35)
Again, religion has nothing to do with it:
well, if you read the story, which I assume you did, you would see what part of the world it is in. And the pics of china and africa are not doing it for god, they are doing it for country or their tribes. there are no 77 virgins promised to them. So yes, your pictures are not about religion, mine is.
see the difference?
see the difference?
Yes I see the difference very clearly... but I couldn't help noticing that both your pics and mine depict violence... see the connection irregardless of religion?usmarine2 wrote:
well, if you read the story, which I assume you did, you would see what part of the world it is in. And the pics of china and africa are not doing it for god, they are doing it for country or their tribes. there are no 77 virgins promised to them. So yes, your pictures are not about religion, mine is.
see the difference?
This is the problem in your argument... you're on a cliff of a very tall mountain looking down at the world below thinking you know all you can see... but if you look waaaay up... I'm at the summit waving.
unfortunately, it has a lot to do with it....check this out:ReTox wrote:
Again, religion has nothing to do with it
you have wealthy muslim clerics. you have a society that is for the most part, undereducated.
so, you have a ton of people that really dont have a lot to look forward too. say, wake up, tend to the fucking garden or whatever it is, then find a way to get food in your belly and maintain the roof over your head.
so along comes rich asshole cleric, who by the way, talks about some REALLY cool shit....i mean, much cooler than the fucking garden you tend to. he talks about killing motherfuckers and being idolized for fucking eternity....ETERNITY!!!
why the fuck am i sitting here tending to this garden when MY RELIGION is promising me so much. no one will remember the garden i tended to, but they will sure as hell remember me blowing up a bunch of infidels.
why are they infidels?
cause rich, cool talking dickhead cleric said they were.
do you understand that islam as a whole needs to start educating their people?
if not, then the hopeless will continue to seek immortality the same way they have been.
oh ok thenReTox wrote:
I'm at the summit waving.
Bingo.Parker wrote:
unfortunately, it has a lot to do with it....check this out:ReTox wrote:
Again, religion has nothing to do with it
you have wealthy muslim clerics. you have a society that is for the most part, undereducated.
so, you have a ton of people that really dont have a lot to look forward too. say, wake up, tend to the fucking garden or whatever it is, then find a way to get food in your belly and maintain the roof over your head.
so along comes rich asshole cleric, who by the way, talks about some REALLY cool shit....i mean, much cooler than the fucking garden you tend to. he talks about killing motherfuckers and being idolized for fucking eternity....ETERNITY!!!
why the fuck am i sitting here tending to this garden when MY RELIGION is promising me so much. no one will remember the garden i tended to, but they will sure as hell remember me blowing up a bunch of infidels.
why are they infidels?
cause rich, cool talking dickhead cleric said they were.
do you understand that islam as a whole needs to start educating their people?
if not, then the hopeless will continue to seek immortality the same way they have been.
Even George Bush said something similair to that, George fucking Bush said something intelligent. My respect went up for him, when I remember hearing him on the TV talking about how it's not about directly defeating terrorism, it's about giving the people hope so they don't resort to it.
Education is one of the main things. Why do you think the Taliban and shit are always attacking schools
Although, even then, that's not always the case. One of the Glasgow attempted suicide bombers was a fucking DOCTOR. So, you know, maybe that religion is a disease to one's mind.
Yes education is important. But Islam is not the seed of all ignorance. Lack of education is an issue in just about all 3rd world countries. Poverty is as well and often a vehicle for inciting allegiance. They point to someone and tell the people that they are to blame for your poverty, they are to blame for all the pain you feel. This happens everywhere... that's how Hitler did it.Parker wrote:
do you understand that islam as a whole needs to start educating their people?
if not, then the hopeless will continue to seek immortality the same way they have been.
The failed terrorist was a phd student...a doc but not a proper doc. His brother was a medical dcotor who was convicted of failing to provide the authorities with information to prevent terrorism. He has since been deported to India.Mek-Stizzle wrote:
Bingo.Parker wrote:
unfortunately, it has a lot to do with it....check this out:ReTox wrote:
Again, religion has nothing to do with it
you have wealthy muslim clerics. you have a society that is for the most part, undereducated.
so, you have a ton of people that really dont have a lot to look forward too. say, wake up, tend to the fucking garden or whatever it is, then find a way to get food in your belly and maintain the roof over your head.
so along comes rich asshole cleric, who by the way, talks about some REALLY cool shit....i mean, much cooler than the fucking garden you tend to. he talks about killing motherfuckers and being idolized for fucking eternity....ETERNITY!!!
why the fuck am i sitting here tending to this garden when MY RELIGION is promising me so much. no one will remember the garden i tended to, but they will sure as hell remember me blowing up a bunch of infidels.
why are they infidels?
cause rich, cool talking dickhead cleric said they were.
do you understand that islam as a whole needs to start educating their people?
if not, then the hopeless will continue to seek immortality the same way they have been.
Even George Bush said something similair to that, George fucking Bush said something intelligent. My respect went up for him, when I remember hearing him on the TV talking about how it's not about directly defeating terrorism, it's about giving the people hope so they don't resort to it.
Education is one of the main things. Why do you think the Taliban and shit are always attacking schools
Although, even then, that's not always the case. One of the Glasgow attempted suicide bombers was a fucking DOCTOR. So, you know, maybe that religion is a disease to one's mind.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
i never said it was, but not educating their people seems to be a favored tactic.ReTox wrote:
Yes education is important. But Islam is not the seed of all ignorance.
its worked pretty well so far, regarding bodies to use as bombs at least...
i wasnt talking about third world countries. i was talking about islam...ReTox wrote:
Lack of education is an issue in just about all 3rd world countries.
wow, i didnt even need to make that comparison...ReTox wrote:
Poverty is as well and often a vehicle for inciting allegiance. They point to someone and tell the people that they are to blame for your poverty, they are to blame for all the pain you feel. This happens everywhere... that's how Hitler did it.
so, you are agreeing then that this has EVERYTHING to do with religion?
No I am certainly not agreeing. But you brought up Islam not educating its people and I think you are lumping Islam with Extremists, which is exactly what the extremists want. They are hijacking Islam, twisting it and perverting it and hoping that people out there will think about their message of Islam over those who follow true Islam. Extremists limit education, you go to moderate and progressive Muslim countries and you'll find wonderful universities and institutions for learning. It's not the religion, it's the abuse of a few people on many by using religion.Parker wrote:
i never said it was, but not educating their people seems to be a favored tactic.ReTox wrote:
Yes education is important. But Islam is not the seed of all ignorance.
its worked pretty well so far, regarding bodies to use as bombs at least...i wasnt talking about third world countries. i was talking about islam...ReTox wrote:
Lack of education is an issue in just about all 3rd world countries.wow, i didnt even need to make that comparison...ReTox wrote:
Poverty is as well and often a vehicle for inciting allegiance. They point to someone and tell the people that they are to blame for your poverty, they are to blame for all the pain you feel. This happens everywhere... that's how Hitler did it.
so, you are agreeing then that this has EVERYTHING to do with religion?
Here's an example of how fucked up religious schism can be when perverted from the original:
Arab Greeting: As-Salāmu `Alaykum
Hebrew Greeting: Shalom Aleichem.
Say them out loud and realize how close they sound. Maybe originated from one language... and one people?
Ironic isn't it.usmarine2 wrote:
religion of peace
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