Pages: 1

 

2008-06-28 11:49:31
Bell
Frosties > Cornflakes
+362|6819|UK

Source: http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7897.html


One point four billion. That's how many transistors the NVIDIA G200 core consists of. If you take that many transistors and try to make a chip out of them with a manufacturing process limited to 65nm lanes, you're going to get a lot of faulty of chips per wafer. Yields were suggested to be low 40% before the launch and that the chip would become extremely expensive, $100-110. Even though this sounded a bit extreme, it might actually have been even better than reality.

The fact is that many NVIDIA partners have been left out after G200, simply because of a lack of chips. And the partners that do get cards are not happy with the margins. NVIDIA is trying hard to get the 55nm "G200b" out as soon as possible, but it doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon. G200 at 55nm should be about 470mm2, which should make room for about 120 dies on a 300mm wafer. Hopefully this will push yields closer to 50%, but NVIDIA is probably going to be satisfied with above 40%.

On top of that, NVIDIA's new Unilateral Minimum Advertised Price Policy (UMAP) has limited partners' playing field and minimizes competition between them. When NVIDIA at the same time decides to launch new cards based on existing cores, at lower prices, partners get upset over diminishing earnings. Add to that AMD's new RV770 chip is looking very tempting to some of these partners...
No wonder they cost so damn much, there costing a fortune to make and half of them dont make it!  On that card retailing at $700 just think how much of that is mark up from losses let alone Nvidia making any profit.  It would also appear that even if they managed 55nm tommorow, that isnt going to solve the problem there in.

Side note:  Fuck you sup I beat you to this one <3

Martyn
2008-06-28 11:52:11
.Sup
be nice
+2,646|6723|The Twilight Zone
Ye i read this today, didn't thought worth posting. Only read this quote though
The fact is that many NVIDIA partners have been left out after G200, simply because of a lack of chips. And the partners that do get cards are not happy with the margins. NVIDIA is trying hard to get the 55nm "G200b" out as soon as possible, but it doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon. G200 at 55nm should be about 470mm2, which should make room for about 120 dies on a 300mm wafer. Hopefully this will push yields closer to 50%, but NVIDIA is probably going to be satisfied with above 40%.
https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png
2008-06-28 11:54:29
Bell
Frosties > Cornflakes
+362|6819|UK

.Sup wrote:

Ye i read this today, didn't thought worth posting. Only read this quote though
The fact is that many NVIDIA partners have been left out after G200, simply because of a lack of chips. And the partners that do get cards are not happy with the margins. NVIDIA is trying hard to get the 55nm "G200b" out as soon as possible, but it doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon. G200 at 55nm should be about 470mm2, which should make room for about 120 dies on a 300mm wafer. Hopefully this will push yields closer to 50%, but NVIDIA is probably going to be satisfied with above 40%.
Am more ''excited'' (damn that just doesnt suit my persona) about these partners going over and releasing cards with ATi.  I mean an Evga/XFX 4870X2 would be awsome!

Martyn
2008-06-28 11:58:37
.Sup
be nice
+2,646|6723|The Twilight Zone

Bell wrote:

.Sup wrote:

Ye i read this today, didn't thought worth posting. Only read this quote though
The fact is that many NVIDIA partners have been left out after G200, simply because of a lack of chips. And the partners that do get cards are not happy with the margins. NVIDIA is trying hard to get the 55nm "G200b" out as soon as possible, but it doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon. G200 at 55nm should be about 470mm2, which should make room for about 120 dies on a 300mm wafer. Hopefully this will push yields closer to 50%, but NVIDIA is probably going to be satisfied with above 40%.
Am more ''excited'' (damn that just doesnt suit my persona) about these partners going over and releasing cards with ATi.  I mean an Evga/XFX 4870X2 would be awsome!

Martyn
Dunno why EVGA doesn't go with ATI. ON another note (since you mentioned EVGA): EVGA has released four 260GTX version, three of them are OCed and the most expensive one is 50$ more expensive than stock 260GTX (400$) thats 450$. Very expensive. But ask yourself this: why pay 50$ more for an OCed card if you can OC it yourself and they are offering three OCed versions! I say madness!
https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png
2008-06-28 12:04:50
Brasso
member
+1,549|6900

.Sup wrote:

Bell wrote:

.Sup wrote:

Ye i read this today, didn't thought worth posting. Only read this quote though
Am more ''excited'' (damn that just doesnt suit my persona) about these partners going over and releasing cards with ATi.  I mean an Evga/XFX 4870X2 would be awsome!

Martyn
Dunno why EVGA doesn't go with ATI. ON another note (since you mentioned EVGA): EVGA has released four 260GTX version, three of them are OCed and the most expensive one is 50$ more expensive than stock 260GTX (400$) thats 450$. Very expensive. But ask yourself this: why pay 50$ more for an OCed card if you can OC it yourself and they are offering three OCed versions! I say madness!
Yeah but the price premium you pay for XFX and eVGA is due to:

1) their support
2) double lifetime warranties
3) overclocking coverage (go as crazy as you want provided you can wait for the RMA!)
4) just being plain sexy

"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"
2008-06-28 12:09:11
Bell
Frosties > Cornflakes
+362|6819|UK

.Sup wrote:

Bell wrote:

.Sup wrote:

Ye i read this today, didn't thought worth posting. Only read this quote though
Am more ''excited'' (damn that just doesnt suit my persona) about these partners going over and releasing cards with ATi.  I mean an Evga/XFX 4870X2 would be awsome!

Martyn
Dunno why EVGA doesn't go with ATI. ON another note (since you mentioned EVGA): EVGA has released four 260GTX version, three of them are OCed and the most expensive one is 50$ more expensive than stock 260GTX (400$) thats 450$. Very expensive. But ask yourself this: why pay 50$ more for an OCed card if you can OC it yourself and they are offering three OCed versions! I say madness!
It could have something to do with these yields.  Or even, the profits on GT200 are so slim (even at these prices) that they need to essentially rip you off with these factory OC versions in order to make any meaningful profit out of them.  If they are charging $50 (on a $500 card) to overclock it for you, and people buy it, thats an additional 10% of much needed, MUNIEZ.  It's good buisiness, many customers will gladly pay more if they THINK there getting something better.  And for all intents and purposes they are getting a ''better'' product.  Us lot being able to tweak our way round it doesnt make much difference.

Martyn
2008-06-28 12:10:27
.Sup
be nice
+2,646|6723|The Twilight Zone

haffeysucks wrote:

.Sup wrote:

Bell wrote:


Am more ''excited'' (damn that just doesnt suit my persona) about these partners going over and releasing cards with ATi.  I mean an Evga/XFX 4870X2 would be awsome!

Martyn
Dunno why EVGA doesn't go with ATI. ON another note (since you mentioned EVGA): EVGA has released four 260GTX version, three of them are OCed and the most expensive one is 50$ more expensive than stock 260GTX (400$) thats 450$. Very expensive. But ask yourself this: why pay 50$ more for an OCed card if you can OC it yourself and they are offering three OCed versions! I say madness!
Yeah but the price premium you pay for XFX and eVGA is due to:

1) their support
2) double lifetime warranties
3) overclocking coverage (go as crazy as you want provided you can wait for the RMA!)
4) just being plain sexy

I wouldn't pay that much for a lifetime warranty and blowjobs twice a day till the rest of my life!
https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png
2008-06-28 12:45:07
Jenspm
penis
+1,716|7001|St. Andrews / Oslo

.Sup wrote:

haffeysucks wrote:

.Sup wrote:


Dunno why EVGA doesn't go with ATI. ON another note (since you mentioned EVGA): EVGA has released four 260GTX version, three of them are OCed and the most expensive one is 50$ more expensive than stock 260GTX (400$) thats 450$. Very expensive. But ask yourself this: why pay 50$ more for an OCed card if you can OC it yourself and they are offering three OCed versions! I say madness!
Yeah but the price premium you pay for XFX and eVGA is due to:

1) their support
2) double lifetime warranties
3) overclocking coverage (go as crazy as you want provided you can wait for the RMA!)
4) just being plain sexy

I wouldn't pay that much for a lifetime warranty and blowjobs twice a day till the rest of my life!
lies.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png https://twitter.com/phoenix/favicon.ico
2008-06-28 12:46:39
Brasso
member
+1,549|6900

Jenspm wrote:

.Sup wrote:

haffeysucks wrote:


Yeah but the price premium you pay for XFX and eVGA is due to:

1) their support
2) double lifetime warranties
3) overclocking coverage (go as crazy as you want provided you can wait for the RMA!)
4) just being plain sexy

I wouldn't pay that much for a lifetime warranty and blowjobs twice a day till the rest of my life!
lies.
oh, i'm not talking about the GTX series.  i'm talking about price differences between their 8 series cards and companies like MSI, ASUS, etc.  the price difference is something small like $10, and i would definitely pay that much more for that much more.
"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"
2008-06-29 02:56:04
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6851|SE London

.Sup wrote:

Bell wrote:

.Sup wrote:

Ye i read this today, didn't thought worth posting. Only read this quote though
Am more ''excited'' (damn that just doesnt suit my persona) about these partners going over and releasing cards with ATi.  I mean an Evga/XFX 4870X2 would be awsome!

Martyn
Dunno why EVGA doesn't go with ATI. ON another note (since you mentioned EVGA): EVGA has released four 260GTX version, three of them are OCed and the most expensive one is 50$ more expensive than stock 260GTX (400$) thats 450$. Very expensive. But ask yourself this: why pay 50$ more for an OCed card if you can OC it yourself and they are offering three OCed versions! I say madness!
If there are that many transistors crammed onto the die then OCing is probably risky with a lot of the GPUs, because higher transistor density makes OCing way harder to do well. By getting a factory OC'd one you know it'll perform safely and have more headroom to push it a bit further.

It might not be the best investment for consumers, but I can see why the OC'd versions cost what they do for these cards.
2008-06-29 03:28:19
.Sup
be nice
+2,646|6723|The Twilight Zone

Bertster7 wrote:

.Sup wrote:

Bell wrote:


Am more ''excited'' (damn that just doesnt suit my persona) about these partners going over and releasing cards with ATi.  I mean an Evga/XFX 4870X2 would be awsome!

Martyn
Dunno why EVGA doesn't go with ATI. ON another note (since you mentioned EVGA): EVGA has released four 260GTX version, three of them are OCed and the most expensive one is 50$ more expensive than stock 260GTX (400$) thats 450$. Very expensive. But ask yourself this: why pay 50$ more for an OCed card if you can OC it yourself and they are offering three OCed versions! I say madness!
If there are that many transistors crammed onto the die then OCing is probably risky with a lot of the GPUs, because higher transistor density makes OCing way harder to do well. By getting a factory OC'd one you know it'll perform safely and have more headroom to push it a bit further.

It might not be the best investment for consumers, but I can see why the OC'd versions cost what they do for these cards.
I'm not saying 50$ more is not justified, I'm merely saying its not worth it imo, the card is expensive as it is, 50$ more makes it not a good buy imo.
https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png

 

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