BF2S Forums England and Islam (again)

Thorax wrote:

I prefer prejudice.  But whatever you prefer.

If I am racist, what of it?  Do you win a medal or a cookie or are you just quoting what I've already said myself.  I've said on numerous occasions that when I say something, I think about it first, then say it for a reason and I always stand by my word and my point of view unless blatantly shown evidence contrary and contradicting to my previously conceived notions.

So are you hoping I'm going to break down, cry and beg for forgiveness or are you simply trying to place yourself on top of the political correctness pedestal of champions?

I'd be worried if you broke down crying Thorax and you certainly don't need to beg my forgiveness. At least you somewhat admit that aspect of your personality, you are braver than some other people here and I actually respect you a little more for that in a weird sort of way. Maybe one day you might experience similar 'prejudice' and have your eyes opened a little...maybe someone will turn you down for a job because of your impoverished background or something, who knows. I won't hold my breath though.

Thorax wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Thorax wrote:

I prefer prejudice.  But whatever you prefer.

If I am racist, what of it?  Do you win a medal or a cookie or are you just quoting what I've already said myself.  I've said on numerous occasions that when I say something, I think about it first, then say it for a reason and I always stand by my word and my point of view unless blatantly shown evidence contrary and contradicting to my previously conceived notions.

So are you hoping I'm going to break down, cry and beg for forgiveness or are you simply trying to place yourself on top of the political correctness pedestal of champions?

I'd be worried if you broke down crying Thorax and you certainly don't need to beg my forgiveness. At least you somewhat admit that aspect of your personality, you are braver than some other people here and I actually respect you a little more for that in a weird sort of way. Maybe one day you might experience similar 'prejudice' and have your eyes opened a little...maybe someone will turn you down for a job because of your impoverished background or something, who knows. I won't hold my breath though.

Who says I haven't already experienced a similar prejudice?  I guess you missed that thread on the night I came home and found someone breaking into someones car?  Also, I didn't expect you to know that most companies I've worked at have a higher percentage of minority workers than whites, so believe me when I say I've witnessed it, but at the same time I understand why they feel the way they do.  What I don't understand however is how some of these people (read:some) use these pre-existing "excuses" to manipulate people into feeling sorry for them or helping them in some way.

If you've experienced prejudices in the past how can you do the same to other people?

Thorax wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Thorax wrote:

Who says I haven't already experienced a similar prejudice?  I guess you missed that thread on the night I came home and found someone breaking into someones car?  Also, I didn't expect you to know that most companies I've worked at have a higher percentage of minority workers than whites, so believe me when I say I've witnessed it, but at the same time I understand why they feel the way they do.  What I don't understand however is how some of these people (read:some) use these pre-existing "excuses" to manipulate people into feeling sorry for them or helping them in some way.

If you've experienced prejudices in the past how can you do the same to other people?

Because it's human nature, not choice.  I respect no one until they give me a reason too.  I trust no one, period.

And there was me thinking humans possessed the ability to use clear, rational thought processes to question primitive fears and innate tendencies in a way that the animal kingdom couldn't...oh well, guess not.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Pretty good summation of intellect in this thread for the people that can't read the article and realize it's some idiot teacher, not a reflection of England's policy.

Then again, people here rarely read the article posted before spouting out nonsense, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

If you had read either the Mail or Telegraph articles, you would realize there isn't any inference that it was just the teacher or whether it was school policy.

But, like you said:

people here rarely read the article posted before spouting out nonsense

Thorax wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Thorax wrote:

Who says I haven't already experienced a similar prejudice?  I guess you missed that thread on the night I came home and found someone breaking into someones car?  Also, I didn't expect you to know that most companies I've worked at have a higher percentage of minority workers than whites, so believe me when I say I've witnessed it, but at the same time I understand why they feel the way they do.  What I don't understand however is how some of these people (read:some) use these pre-existing "excuses" to manipulate people into feeling sorry for them or helping them in some way.

If you've experienced prejudices in the past how can you do the same to other people?

Because it's human nature, not choice.  I respect no one until they give me a reason too.  I trust no one, period.

come on. You're a human being capable of rational thought ( at least I would hope so ). If you disrespect someone, or have prejudices towards that person, then it's because you have made a conscious decision to do so, not because it's human nature. If you're smart enough to reckognize prejudice in yourself, then you should also be smart enough to know why you feel that way.
You could blame your education, upbringing, social influences, even personal experiences, but never can you blame human nature.
Blaming human nature is the easy way out.

Also, define "respect" for me, please. Because as it seems, our definitions seem to differ.
I choose to respect everyone until they give me a reason not to. And by "respect" I mean the basic respect every living thing on this planet deserves simply because it exists. You know, acknowledging its right to exist, live, procreate, and be happy. Human rights. Basic respect for life, if you will.

That is the sort of respect I would bestow on anyone, regardless of my prejudices. I am not saying I succeed at that every time, mind you. Sometimes, it's hard. But I try.

B.Schuss wrote:

Thorax wrote:

Braddock wrote:

If you've experienced prejudices in the past how can you do the same to other people?

Because it's human nature, not choice.  I respect no one until they give me a reason too.  I trust no one, period.

come on. You're a human being capable of rational thought ( at least I would hope so ). If you disrespect someone, or have prejudices towards that person, then it's because you have made a conscious decision to do so, not because it's human nature. If you're smart enough to reckognize prejudice in yourself, then you should also be smart enough to know why you feel that way.
You could blame your education, upbringing, social influences, even personal experiences, but never can you blame human nature.
Blaming human nature is the easy way out.

Also, define "respect" for me, please. Because as it seems, our definitions seem to differ.
I choose to respect everyone until they give me a reason not to. And by "respect" I mean the basic respect every living thing on this planet deserves simply because it exists. You know, acknowledging its right to exist, live, procreate, and be happy. Human rights. Basic respect for life, if you will.

That is the sort of respect I would bestow on anyone, regardless of my prejudices. I am not saying I succeed at that every time, mind you. Sometimes, it's hard. But I try.

I would have thought the same but apparently the human species haven't developed sufficiently to enable us to judge each individual on their own merits. Everyone has prejudices apparently, which are instinctive and natural, and paying heed to these instincts when meeting people for the first time, even when these people haven't done anything themselves to contribute either way to your prejudices, is not actually racism.

That's what I'm told anyway.

B.Schuss wrote:

Braddock wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

come on. You're a human being capable of rational thought ( at least I would hope so ). If you disrespect someone, or have prejudices towards that person, then it's because you have made a conscious decision to do so, not because it's human nature. If you're smart enough to reckognize prejudice in yourself, then you should also be smart enough to know why you feel that way.
You could blame your education, upbringing, social influences, even personal experiences, but never can you blame human nature.
Blaming human nature is the easy way out.

Also, define "respect" for me, please. Because as it seems, our definitions seem to differ.
I choose to respect everyone until they give me a reason not to. And by "respect" I mean the basic respect every living thing on this planet deserves simply because it exists. You know, acknowledging its right to exist, live, procreate, and be happy. Human rights. Basic respect for life, if you will.

That is the sort of respect I would bestow on anyone, regardless of my prejudices. I am not saying I succeed at that every time, mind you. Sometimes, it's hard. But I try.

I would have thought the same but apparently the human species haven't developed sufficiently to enable us to judge each individual on their own merits. Everyone has prejudices apparently, which are instinctive and natural, and paying heed to these instincts when meeting people for the first time, even when these people haven't done anything themselves to contribute either way to your prejudices, is not actually racism.

That's what I'm told anyway.

well, strictly speaking, it's probably stereotyping, not racism. I must admit though, I am not familiar with the exact definition. If you have prejudices against people of a specific faith, for example, is that also racism ?

Prejudices in general can apply to anything. Prejudices that apply to race is racism.

ZombieVampire! wrote:

Uh.........dude.........racism.

This is my dictionary's definition of racism...

rac·ism  (rszm)
n.
1. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

FEOS wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

well, strictly speaking, it's probably stereotyping, not racism. I must admit though, I am not familiar with the exact definition. If you have prejudices against people of a specific faith, for example, is that also racism ?

Unfortunately, many people apply the "racism" label to prejudices that do not involve race.

Unless the issue is race i.e ethnicity or skin colour then it's not racism, simple as that.

FEOS wrote:

Braddock wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Unfortunately, many people apply the "racism" label to prejudices that do not involve race.

Unless the issue is race i.e ethnicity or skin colour then it's not racism, simple as that.

If that were the case, then the label wouldn't have been applied to a prejudice that does not involve race, now would it?

Some cases pertaining to religious prejudice involve blurry boundaries between the faith in question and the ethnicity generally associated with it. For example it is often debated whether being Jewish is a matter of ethnicity or of faith, likewise many people blur the boundaries between Islam and the many types of Arabs that follow the faith. In that case it could be considered a combination of religious prejudice and racism.

Last edited by Braddock (2008-07-08 02:56:39)

Braddock wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Unless the issue is race i.e ethnicity or skin colour then it's not racism, simple as that.

If that were the case, then the label wouldn't have been applied to a prejudice that does not involve race, now would it?

Some cases pertaining to religious prejudice involve blurry boundaries between the faith in question and the ethnicity generally associated with it. For example it is often debated whether being Jewish is a matter of ethnicity or of faith, likewise many people blur the boundaries between Islam and the many types of Arabs that follow the faith. In that case it could be considered a combination of religious prejudice and racism.

So basically, it's an issue of ignorance on the part of the one with prejudice in those cases...as is the case with most prejudices.