Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7128|67.222.138.85
India's population is growing out of control. It is looking to surpass China in population by 2030, while its land mass is a little under a third that of China. They do not have enough food to feed their populace now, and do not have the land or means of developing the land to increase food production in the foreseeable future. Their government is incompetent and corrupt, and therefore they have no way of developing population control measures as the Chinese have, even if it was viable socially. They have no unique services or products to sell to the rest of the world save for unintelligible amounts of unskilled labor.

It is inevitable, India is going to implode. Whose responsibility is it to pick up the pieces? Is it the responsibility of Western nations to enable India when the only alternative is to let people die of starvation by the thousands, or tens of thousands? Do all nations have a responsibility to do as much as reasonably possible to prevent the complete economic breakdown of other nations, and to stamp out anarchy and widespread hunger? Or on the other hand is the survival of successful ways of life more important, to develop more successful societies with posterity in mind at the expense of the stragglers?
chittydog
less busy
+586|7256|Kubra, Damn it!

I think India is already exploding rather than imploding. India's biggest export seems to be its own people. Their population growth may be the result of their majority religion having produced the Kama Sutra.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6963|Texas - Bigger than France
We better make shittier products that require more tech support to keep them employed...
mtb0minime
minimember
+2,418|7075

You just know that our country is going to waste all our tax dollars on trying to feed the starving population of India, just like we do with Africa. We all need to accept Darwinism and realize that it's dog-eat-dog and only the best survive. The starving people is nature's way of killing off the people its land can't sustain.

Too many times people or governments try to play God, and it's not a good idea.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7042|London, England
while its land mass is a little under a third that of China
When you take away the uninhabited/mountainous/sparsely populated regions of western china, you realise that the countries are more or less the same in terms of population/land.

This map will easily show what I'm talking about

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bc/Population_density.png

As for the population, something will eventually give. Unless big things happen in the next few decades. India/China need to look at Japan and see how they've solved density/food problems. The Japanese have multi-storey farms and can grow Cabbages in 24 hours (I remember reading that somewhere in a textbook), they need to start doing shit like that afterwards. If not start doing it now.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7128|67.222.138.85

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

while its land mass is a little under a third that of China
When you take away the uninhabited/mountainous/sparsely populated regions of western china, you realise that the countries are more or less the same in terms of population/land.

This map will easily show what I'm talking about

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … ensity.png

As for the population, something will eventually give. Unless big things happen in the next few decades. India/China need to look at Japan and see how they've solved density/food problems. The Japanese have multi-storey farms and can grow Cabbages in 24 hours (I remember reading that somewhere in a textbook), they need to start doing shit like that afterwards. If not start doing it now.
The lands currently uninhabited by China can be moved into though, India just plain flat doesn't have anywhere else to expand to, and they border some seriously hostile countries. The fact is China has more land, booming industry, and population control measures that will keep their population at least reasonably near current levels. India has more arable land, but no resources to make really effectively use of it, not to mention it's being encroached upon by urban expansion, little industry to speak of, and the only limiting factor to the population in site is food.

China is doing okay.

Japan's population is declining, and fewer and fewer children are being born due to social tendencies. They have a strong economy and their main reasons for all the innovations in efficient urban planning is just to pack more people into the major cities because they can make money off of it. It is not borne out of necessity, and their society is just about the exact opposite to that of India.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7042|London, England
That's why I said they need to start copying the Japanese more... also China can't simply expand into the west as it's mostly wasteland/mountains/Tibetan plateau

The only way this world will sort itself out is by destroying itself and starting over. Then again, maybe that's just me being pessimistic. There might be some breakthroughs in the future that will solve alot of the problems. Who knows

World population will hit 7billion near 2012, infact there are quite alot of milestones happening during that year. Sometimes I believe that crazy Mayan shit, 2012 might be the year to watch, and that's not me shamelessly plugging the London Olympics
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6963|Texas - Bigger than France

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

China is doing okay.
Just a point:
China's running out of water.  China & India recently left the G8 talks re: environmental issues...why?

Because the stipulations being proposed would hamper their economic growth. 

Imagine a few millions of people unemployed...or imagine the pollution.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/ … -text.html
CaptainSpaulding71
Member
+119|6778|CA, USA
i think that the main reason we have alot of problems in this world today is due to overpopulation.  with more and more people in a given area, the chances of infectious diseases running rampant ar higher.  all we need is another flu pandemic and many people will die due to lack of access to proper medicinces.  wars are more prevalent due to scarcity of resources (water rights, oil, food, etc). 

it seems alot of people are focusing on feeding, clothing, housing these extra people.  to me this is somewhat backwards.  why do we not focus on preventing these people from having more and more kids that they cannot properly care for?  where are the abstinence and prophyllactic education programs? 

in short, quit fucking fucking or pull out when it tickles!
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7128|67.222.138.85

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

That's why I said they need to start copying the Japanese more... also China can't simply expand into the west as it's mostly wasteland/mountains/Tibetan plateau
You can't copy a society that is in direct opposition to your own. It just does not work, like a transfusion of blood not of your own type.

People can't live in the mountains? Just because most of the easy land is occupied in China doesn't mean they don't have anywhere else to expand to. Look where India has expanded onto the Deccan plateau, or at America's westward expansion. Humans are an ingenious species that can eek out an existence in a lot of places, especially with enough incentive.

Pug wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

China is doing okay.
Just a point:
China's running out of water.  China & India recently left the G8 talks re: environmental issues...why?

Because the stipulations being proposed would hamper their economic growth. 

Imagine a few millions of people unemployed...or imagine the pollution.

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/ … -text.html
Oh China has its fair share of problems. I didn't say they were doing great, just okay. I mean look at Europe and America, we have quite a number of problems as well, but the U.S. and Europe and China doesn't have to worry about how a quarter of their population is going to be fed.
paul386
Member
+22|6666
I Don't Believe You That The Indian Government Is Corrupt. This Is Impossible. I Have Never Heard Of A Corrupt Government. When Pigs Fly.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6963|Texas - Bigger than France

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Oh China has its fair share of problems. I didn't say they were doing great, just okay. I mean look at Europe and America, we have quite a number of problems as well, but the U.S. and Europe and China doesn't have to worry about how a quarter of their population is going to be fed.
And, just to clarify:
The Americans telling the Chinese that they have a pollution problem is a lot like a crack addict blaming his dealer.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6976
Darwin must be allowed to work. We threw tons of aid at Ethiopia in the eighties when they had a famine and now their population has jumped from 33 million to an unsustainable 75 million. That is not what the aid was supposed to drive. Throw the fuckers to the wolves they created themselves with their own irresponsibility - whether that nation be in Africa, Asia or wherever. The laws of nature have to kick in at some point: the planet has limited resources and if people have to die because the planet can't sustain them then so be it.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7042|London, England

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

That's why I said they need to start copying the Japanese more... also China can't simply expand into the west as it's mostly wasteland/mountains/Tibetan plateau
You can't copy a society that is in direct opposition to your own. It just does not work, like a transfusion of blood not of your own type.
I don't see how looking at how a country has dealt with population density is directly copying their society and culture, those are two different things. It's a simple matter of urban and rural planning. All I started talking about was how the Japanese dealt with their population density and agriculture, and you started talking about how it would never work in other countries because it's a different culture. Doesn't make sense.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7128|67.222.138.85

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

That's why I said they need to start copying the Japanese more... also China can't simply expand into the west as it's mostly wasteland/mountains/Tibetan plateau
You can't copy a society that is in direct opposition to your own. It just does not work, like a transfusion of blood not of your own type.
I don't see how looking at how a country has dealt with population density is directly copying their society and culture, those are two different things. It's a simple matter of urban and rural planning. All I started talking about was how the Japanese dealt with their population density and agriculture, and you started talking about how it would never work in other countries because it's a different culture. Doesn't make sense.
Urban and rural planning are not simple matters, and one area can't be the carbon copy of another.

Japan is physically limited in space because it is on a relatively small island. India has filled up a comparatively massive land area. Japan has oodles of money coming in from its high tech sector. India doesn't have enough money to put up high rise buildings if they wanted to. Japan already has a highly trained workforce that can be put to work on making high tech solutions to urban planning problems. India is working hard to train people to take our tech support calls. Japan has some of the best infrastructure in the world, notably internet speeds. India is lucky to have running water and power most of the day. Japan has a problem with not having a very large younger generation due to the interesting social and sexual climate in the area. India has young people popping out every day with little opportunity to raise themselves out of poverty.

You can't use cookie-cutter solutions because each situation is different.
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|7141|California

Move underground tbh.

I could see killings over real estate in the future, for sure.
BVC
Member
+325|7116
They'll have to figure something out, or a bunch will die out.  Simple.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7128|67.222.138.85

Pubic wrote:

They'll have to figure something out, or a bunch will die out.  Simple.
The question is do we help them figure something out, or leave them to flounder while people die?

The thread is not about the population growing out of control in India - that much is fact. It's about whether the nations with the means to aid them have the responsibility to do so or not.
pyscofrawg
AKA Selkies ftw
+55|6826|Earth
I sure am glad I live in America where I can buy enough food to feed a family for a few dollars, then throw away half of it and not even care about starving and less fortunate people.
Signature
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6527|eXtreme to the maX
Eventually we will run out of space, like bacteria in a tube.
Fuck Israel
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6867|Chicago, IL

pyscofrawg wrote:

I sure am glad I live in America where I can buy enough food to feed a family for a few dollars, then throw away half of it and not even care about starving and less fortunate people.
That's because you had a family you were sure you could support.  In other nations, especially those in question, people who cannot support themselves alone often have some of the world's largest families.  This is irresponsibility on their part, and the results are expected.
SFCCDailey
Banned
+106|7136|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

Darwin must be allowed to work. We threw tons of aid at Ethiopia in the eighties when they had a famine and now their population has jumped from 33 million to an unsustainable 75 million. That is not what the aid was supposed to drive. Throw the fuckers to the wolves they created themselves with their own irresponsibility - whether that nation be in Africa, Asia or wherever. The laws of nature have to kick in at some point: the planet has limited resources and if people have to die because the planet can't sustain them then so be it.
DAMN RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7042|London, England

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Pubic wrote:

They'll have to figure something out, or a bunch will die out.  Simple.
The question is do we help them figure something out, or leave them to flounder while people die?

The thread is not about the population growing out of control in India - that much is fact. It's about whether the nations with the means to aid them have the responsibility to do so or not.
Leave them to it. They're not even asking for help tbh. They'll sort it out themselves. No need to start crying over other countries going "look at those poor people" with a sense of superiority and smugness, let them do what they gotta do. Both China and India are growing at crazy rates. They'll come up with their own solution when (if) the time comes. They'll be significantly richer too. And by if I mean if we even get to that stage and Nuclear War doesn't do the world a favour and get rid of 80% of the world population.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7128|67.222.138.85

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Pubic wrote:

They'll have to figure something out, or a bunch will die out.  Simple.
The question is do we help them figure something out, or leave them to flounder while people die?

The thread is not about the population growing out of control in India - that much is fact. It's about whether the nations with the means to aid them have the responsibility to do so or not.
Leave them to it. They're not even asking for help tbh. They'll sort it out themselves. No need to start crying over other countries going "look at those poor people" with a sense of superiority and smugness, let them do what they gotta do. Both China and India are growing at crazy rates. They'll come up with their own solution when (if) the time comes. They'll be significantly richer too. And by if I mean if we even get to that stage and Nuclear War doesn't do the world a favour and get rid of 80% of the world population.
China's population growth rate is dropping dramatically. As that graph shows, there is a good chance the population will begin declining within the next couple decades thanks to strict population control measures put in place by the Chinese government.

I don't think India will just "come up with a solution", that's the whole point here. There is nothing in history remotely like their situation to look at, and they don't have a lot going for them. Richer? Where is that money coming from? More people does not mean more money.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6963|Texas - Bigger than France

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

China's population growth rate is dropping dramatically. As that graph shows, there is a good chance the population will begin declining within the next couple decades thanks to strict population control measures put in place by the Chinese government.

I don't think India will just "come up with a solution", that's the whole point here. There is nothing in history remotely like their situation to look at, and they don't have a lot going for them. Richer? Where is that money coming from? More people does not mean more money.
You know what's going to be interesting?

re: The one child policy in China...

...once the parents are elderly, one child will need to take care of their parents.  Think about what happens when you're 40 and you are unable to save for your own retirement because your salary is paying for your daily routine and that of your parents.

My guess is you'll have four grandparents, two parents and one child all under one roof.

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