BF2S Forums Democrats calling for a second economic stimulus package

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Not Ron Paul, but you could hammer him with reality.

That's part of the deal buddy. Anyone can come up with a grand scheme to fix problems. Getting them based in reality is the tricky part.

The way I see it, Paul's got the right general idea.  He just needs to be a little more realistic about certain things.

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

I will not veto the Senator from Massachusetts Porked out Budget Plan if he includes my plan to increase defense spending by 70 billion dollars*.

* Note this was back when 30 billion dollars was a lot of money.

Isn't compromise what checks and balances are all about? It seems to me it was Mr.Senator from Massachusetts that needed lynching. We also spend ten times that amount of money on national defense now. We were fighting a cold war. There was an urgency to pass the budget. Monday morning quarterbacking to the extreme.

I just said he made a deal with the Devil.  I never said I supported the Devil.

I think Regan was the last Great President and one of the Top 5 of all time.  I only really fault him for giving Amnesty to illegals.

The Failure Trifecta

Track the subprime and credit card mess back, and you will find its origins in free market policies since Reagan that deregulated banking and much of the oversight that managed for years to keep the greed-meisters on Wall Street in check. The failure of media-lionized Alan Greenspan’s Federal Reserve Bank to pay attention to predatory lenders and sub-prime schemers allowed them to prosper.

Add to these failures a complicit Congress, with Democrats and Republicans alike dependent on donations from the three leaders of the FIRE economy. To assure their freedom to run their businesses their own damn way, the banks in the 1990s persuaded Congress to deregulate the practices of financial service companies. Pro-business Court decisions have allowed them to base their operations in low-tax states like South Dakota and Delaware and to end consumer protections against usury.

This decade, Bush’s tax cuts and his bankruptcy “reform” bill strengthening the power of credit card companies were passed with bipartisan support, including that of Senator Dianne Feinstein.

Most of Bush's so called ' Stimulus checks' will be spent  on credit card payments which will be the next huge financial bubble to burst ~ and it has the potential of bringing down the entire financial system and global economy: Allen L Roland
Many Americans are living off their credit cards but be forewarned ~ that bubble is about to burst as more Americans are using high-interest credit card cash to pay at least part of their mortgages. Overall U.S. credit card debt grew by 435% from $211 billion in 2002 to approximately $915 billion year-end 2007.

Last edited by ATG (2008-07-31 19:30:00)

Kmarion wrote:

ATG wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

I just said he made a deal with the Devil.  I never said I supported the Devil.

I think Regan was the last Great President and one of the Top 5 of all time.  I only really fault him for giving Amnesty to illegals.

That's because you are a sheep like the rest of us.
I too followed along with the myth that the Reagan years and deregulation were a boon to us all.

That sad fact is that republicans are all about big business and that under their rein the consumers get screwed as hard as they can, CEOs skate with 100's of millions in cash and pensions while their stocks are rendered worthless.

You do realize that the rich are paying more now than ever under Bush.

Last edited by ATG (2008-07-31 19:38:03)

Kmarion wrote:

ATG wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

You do realize that the rich are paying more now than ever under Bush.

I believe that when you factor state, federal, property, gas and other assorted taxes, fees and levies we are taxed more than the socialists in Europe.

We just don't get the benefits because we have become a country of thieves.

I absolutely agree with that. Simply put it is no longer a government for the people.

Real gross domestic product — the output of goods and services produced by labor and property located in the United States — increased at an annual rate of 1.9 percent in the second quarter of 2008 (that is, from the first quarter to the second quarter), according to advance estimates released by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. In the first quarter, real GDP increased 0.9 percent. ….

    The increase in real GDP in the second quarter primarily reflected positive contributions from
    exports, personal consumption expenditures (PCE), nonresidential structures, federal government spending, and state and local government spending that were partly offset by negative contributions from private inventory investment, residential fixed investment, and equipment and software. Imports, which are a subtraction in the calculation of GDP, decreased.

    The acceleration in real GDP growth in the second quarter primarily reflected a larger decrease in
    imports, an acceleration in exports, a smaller decrease in residential fixed investment, and an
    acceleration in PCE that were partly offset by a larger decrease in inventory investment.

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

ATG wrote:

That's because you are a sheep like the rest of us.
I too followed along with the myth that the Reagan years and deregulation were a boon to us all.

That sad fact is that republicans are all about big business and that under their rein the consumers get screwed as hard as they can, CEOs skate with 100's of millions in cash and pensions while their stocks are rendered worthless.

You do realize that the rich are paying more now than ever under Bush.

If you only look at federal income tax you might think that but I am sure that if you figure out ALL taxes: social security, medicare, state, local, property tax, sin taxes, gas taxes......  that the poor pay a much higher percent of their income in taxes.  Then they have higher interest rates and more of them because they can't buy cars and houses outright.  Also figure out how much health insurance, food, clothing, meds..... eat up their money as a percentage of their income vs a rich person.  They spend nearly 100% of thier money on things that are taxed because they have to spend all of their money to survive, essentially being taxed over and over on every dollar earned.  $1 spent on gas may be taxed by Medicare, Social Security, Federal Income Tax, State Income Tax, state gas tax, federal gas tax, and local gas tax.  $1 put in tax shelter may avoid virtually all of these taxes.

It is a real BS line to just quote income tax rates.

One explanation is that the Bush tax cuts reduced the income tax liability of middle and lower income households by more proportionately than the rich. The average family of four with an income of $40,000 saw its income tax liability fall by about $2,052 a year from the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts.

Kmarion wrote:

ATG wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

I absolutely agree with that. Simply put it is no longer a government for the people.

So, why is it that when people start to suggest a domestic military type solution we get dismissed as crackpots?

How bad's it have to get before the average Joe see's that there may in fact be no other way?

Because we haven't reached the point of total abandonment. Americans (on the whole) have no idea of what real tough is. I blame the lack of historical education for the complacency. When/if we reach that point it will be clear... and there is no way to stop it.