BF2S Forums The bear has reawoken.

Braddock wrote:

jord wrote:

SEREVENT wrote:

Who feels sorry for them?

They started it, declared war, "shot down" jets and killed civilians.

They're standing up to a well hated a much more powerful nation. I bet they would rake in the numbers from Europe and America for people looking to take a shot at the Russkies.

I wouldn't sign up to any fight that was not my own. I support many causes around the world but on a philosophical level I would only ever kill another human in the name of defending my own family, friends or country. This is also not a clean cut 'good vs. evil' war we have here either, there are 3 parties at play: Georgia, Ossetia and Russia and who knows what the hell is actually going here at the political level.

There's a lot of people from Western Europe that fancy their crack at action and Foreign Legions have often got more on. The FFL is in the Ivory coast fighting. You can see how they'd be more appealing than the home countries military. As the Legions aren't citizens of said country they often get in the thick of it. That's the purpose why they were formed, something like "No pure French blood will be spilled fighting for our colonies".

Braddock wrote:

jord wrote:

Braddock wrote:

I wouldn't sign up to any fight that was not my own. I support many causes around the world but on a philosophical level I would only ever kill another human in the name of defending my own family, friends or country. This is also not a clean cut 'good vs. evil' war we have here either, there are 3 parties at play: Georgia, Ossetia and Russia and who knows what the hell is actually going here at the political level.

There's a lot of people from Western Europe that fancy their crack at action and Foreign Legions have often got more on. The FFL is in the Ivory coast fighting. You can see how they'd be more appealing than the home countries military. As the Legions aren't citizens of said country they often get in the thick of it. That's the purpose why they were formed, something like "No pure French blood will be spilled fighting for our colonies".

I would never fight for anyone who held the belief that my blood wasn't 'pure' and being Irish I especially disagree with imperialism of any kind.

People thinking about joining the infantry(such as myself) often want to do it for the action. This applies to about 99% of people joining. Not to train and never put it into use. So I guess it's geared at the people that want to fight and don't care what for, be it another country or imperialism.

jord wrote:

People thinking about joining the infantry(such as myself) often want to do it for the action. This applies to about 99% of people joining. Not to train and never put it into use. So I guess it's geared at the people that want to fight and don't care what for, be it another country or imperialism.

I don't.

Braddock wrote:

I don't mean to be offensive or sound judgmental towards you but it is my belief that signing up to the military for the purposes of "seeing action" instead of believing in the philosophy of what you are doing is just a way of killing people with impunity and in that sense it is the same as murder in my opinion.

Wanting to see action comes with the education too, though. I think you'd have a really hard time finding someone in the military that doesn't want to see what his job actually is all about.

signing up in the infantry for action doesn't really make that much sense to me though, I mean when the infantry see action most other military divisions do so too.

Last edited by dayarath (2008-08-09 09:59:18)

jord wrote:

It's not offensive and I totally understand. A lot of people regard the Legion as "Mercenaries". Which they clearly aren't, because it's shit pay with a strict training regime.

If anyone tells you they joined the infantry but don't want to see action it's probably because they're lying or they want to stay in for a few years to go onto private contracting.

I'd like to see action but I'm not solely going infantry for that. It isn't the most important reason either.

Infantry is alot of " action " though if that was your definition.

Last edited by dayarath (2008-08-09 10:14:08)

jord wrote:

Braddock wrote:

jord wrote:

People thinking about joining the infantry(such as myself) often want to do it for the action. This applies to about 99% of people joining. Not to train and never put it into use. So I guess it's geared at the people that want to fight and don't care what for, be it another country or imperialism.

I don't mean to be offensive or sound judgmental towards you but it is my belief that signing up to the military for the purposes of "seeing action" instead of believing in the philosophy of what you are doing is just a way of killing people with impunity and in that sense it is the same as murder in my opinion.

It's not offensive and I totally understand. A lot of people regard the Legion as "Mercenaries". Which they clearly aren't, because it's shit pay with a strict training regime.

If anyone tells you they joined the infantry but don't want to see action it's probably because they're lying or they want to stay in for a few years to go onto private contracting.

I am a realist and I understand that humans have something in them that likes to fight, and possibly even kill I suppose, it's part of the survival instinct in all of us. I personally would just never wish to kill someone unless it was for a truly worthy and necessary purpose.

That's also one of the reasons why I disagree with the Iraq war so strongly. On a political level Bush and his cronies argue that they are fighting for freedom and liberty but at the end of the day what you have is a load of people bombing, shooting and killing happy in the fact that they are getting to see "some action". In many ways that is more cold blooded than someone flying an airplane into a building because of a deep held religious belief, at least there is a philosophy to the latter.

I disagree with both by the way.

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Braddock wrote:

jord wrote:

Watch a film called "9th company", it shows Russian training.

The Russians are as tough as old boots...

I would just like to point out that a soldier is only as strong as his will to fight.  In Vietnam many of the troops were drafted and didn't believe in the war, and that is how they fought in that war.

I doubt Russia will ever be able to put together much of a volunteer Army willing to actually fight unless the homeland was invaded.  As for drafted soldiers, they have never been worth a shit in history unless your society is built on war.

It was nice to see in the video that they teach them how to get their ass kicked early on.

I'm on dial up so I can't watch the video, if I'm wrong that's my excuse.

The Russians have managed to use conscripts before and they will again. Once they've forced you into the Army and you get dropped into the action, you fight to survive. Will or no will. No?

FatherTed wrote:

People play this Georgia thing down, bear in mind WWI started for the British over Belgium and the BEF

We learned lessons, we've all advanced and grown up, etc.

Lotta_Drool wrote:

I would just like to point out that a soldier is only as strong as his will to fight.  In Vietnam many of the troops were drafted and didn't believe in the war, and that is how they fought in that war.

I doubt Russia will ever be able to put together much of a volunteer Army willing to actually fight unless the homeland was invaded.  As for drafted soldiers, they have never been worth a shit in history unless your society is built on war.

It was nice to see in the video that they teach them how to get their ass kicked early on.

The Russians appear to follow the approach of subjecting their troops to the most horrible, disheartening treatment possible during training in the hope that it will toughen them up for action in the field. The psychological equivalent of medicine ball training. I believe there is a high suicide rate in the Russian army which would suggest that only the strongest make it through. Remember that this is the same country that sent troops into battle without any weapons when the going got tough in the not too distant past.

Braddock wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

I would just like to point out that a soldier is only as strong as his will to fight.  In Vietnam many of the troops were drafted and didn't believe in the war, and that is how they fought in that war.

I doubt Russia will ever be able to put together much of a volunteer Army willing to actually fight unless the homeland was invaded.  As for drafted soldiers, they have never been worth a shit in history unless your society is built on war.

It was nice to see in the video that they teach them how to get their ass kicked early on.

The Russians appear to follow the approach of subjecting their troops to the most horrible, disheartening treatment possible during training in the hope that it will toughen them up for action in the field. The psychological equivalent of medicine ball training. I believe there is a high suicide rate in the Russian army which would suggest that only the strongest make it through. Remember that this is the same country that sent troops into battle without any weapons when the going got tough in the not too distant past.

Aye, 5 men to a rifle, each with their own clip.

Basically high command knew their men would die, so they minimised the cost in weapon production/procurement.

Braddock wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

I would just like to point out that a soldier is only as strong as his will to fight.  In Vietnam many of the troops were drafted and didn't believe in the war, and that is how they fought in that war.

I doubt Russia will ever be able to put together much of a volunteer Army willing to actually fight unless the homeland was invaded.  As for drafted soldiers, they have never been worth a shit in history unless your society is built on war.

It was nice to see in the video that they teach them how to get their ass kicked early on.

The Russians appear to follow the approach of subjecting their troops to the most horrible, disheartening treatment possible during training in the hope that it will toughen them up for action in the field. The psychological equivalent of medicine ball training. I believe there is a high suicide rate in the Russian army which would suggest that only the strongest make it through. Remember that this is the same country that sent troops into battle without any weapons when the going got tough in the not too distant past.

They actually abandoned that tactic before the end of the war because it resulted in too heavy a loss. The Russian army, as far as I'm aware also has really big corruption issues and bullying amongst recruits which is considered to be a serious problem. You've have to see though, that conscripts generally do not want to be there, and as such are more susceptible to desert given the chance. I'm not sayng that's always the case, but its more likely amongst conscripts than volunteers.

M.O.A.B wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

I would just like to point out that a soldier is only as strong as his will to fight.  In Vietnam many of the troops were drafted and didn't believe in the war, and that is how they fought in that war.

I doubt Russia will ever be able to put together much of a volunteer Army willing to actually fight unless the homeland was invaded.  As for drafted soldiers, they have never been worth a shit in history unless your society is built on war.

It was nice to see in the video that they teach them how to get their ass kicked early on.

The Russians appear to follow the approach of subjecting their troops to the most horrible, disheartening treatment possible during training in the hope that it will toughen them up for action in the field. The psychological equivalent of medicine ball training. I believe there is a high suicide rate in the Russian army which would suggest that only the strongest make it through. Remember that this is the same country that sent troops into battle without any weapons when the going got tough in the not too distant past.

They actually abandoned that tactic before the end of the war because it resulted in too heavy a loss. The Russian army, as far as I'm aware also has really big corruption issues and bullying amongst recruits which is considered to be a serious problem. You've have to see though, that conscripts generally do not want to be there, and as such are more susceptible to desert given the chance. I'm not sayng that's always the case, but its more likely amongst conscripts than volunteers.

Oh come on, the Russian military is an awesome place to serve. If you're masochistic.

jord wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

jord wrote:

I'm on dial up so I can't watch the video, if I'm wrong that's my excuse.

The Russians have managed to use conscripts before and they will again. Once they've forced you into the Army and you get dropped into the action, you fight to survive. Will or no will. No?

You shoot your commander when he tries to make you fight for anything other than survival.  That is what happens.

Trust me, being FORCED to have a shitty existence by your country makes you hate your country.  The Military is worse than prison on many levels, especially in war time.  A strong army a draft does not make.

I can see a group of pissed off soldiers shooting their commander and making a run for it. Russia probably deals out bad punishments if you go AWOL though, seeing as how pussying around isn't really that high on their agenda.

Why run? Aussies in WW1 didn't have to run away after shooting officers.........