I should be the one saying wtf here O_ooug wrote:
im not? wtfdayarath wrote:
then why continue on itoug wrote:
I never claimed otherwise.
ugh nvm anyway.
inane little opines
ugh nvm anyway.
Like them or not, Russia have every right to protect their interest in that region..
They have been helping S. Ossetia since early 90' economically.. most people in S. Ossetia are friendly to Russia and most of them want to be part of Russia.
A military response was needed to show the Georgians government to not mess around with their own people. But Russia only have to kick Georgia out of S. Ossetia and stop the bombing of civilians and military infrastructure in retaliation.
Let's hope that Russia is more civilized than Israel.
They have been helping S. Ossetia since early 90' economically.. most people in S. Ossetia are friendly to Russia and most of them want to be part of Russia.
A military response was needed to show the Georgians government to not mess around with their own people. But Russia only have to kick Georgia out of S. Ossetia and stop the bombing of civilians and military infrastructure in retaliation.
Let's hope that Russia is more civilized than Israel.
Dude. It's RUSSIA.AutralianChainsaw wrote:
Like them or not, Russia have every right to protect their interest in that region..
They have been helping S. Ossetia since early 90' economically.. most people in S. Ossetia are friendly to Russia and most of them want to be part of Russia.
A military response was needed to show the Georgians government to not mess around with their own people. But Russia only have to kick Georgia out of S. Ossetia and stop the bombing of civilians and military infrastructure in retaliation.
Let's hope that Russia is more civilized than Israel.
Russia's concept of collateral damage is zero, they may do less bad shit than the US these days but when they do end up doing something, it's really bad.
You haven't seen Grozny have you?AutralianChainsaw wrote:
Like them or not, Russia have every right to protect their interest in that region..
They have been helping S. Ossetia since early 90' economically.. most people in S. Ossetia are friendly to Russia and most of them want to be part of Russia.
A military response was needed to show the Georgians government to not mess around with their own people. But Russia only have to kick Georgia out of S. Ossetia and stop the bombing of civilians and military infrastructure in retaliation.
Let's hope that Russia is more civilized than Israel.
if it wasn't for the resources and possibilities russia wouldn't give a flying fuck about the whole region, russian inhabitants or not. They're just doing that under a cover of "protecting their citizens" bullshit.AutralianChainsaw wrote:
Like them or not, Russia have every right to protect their interest in that region..
They have been helping S. Ossetia since early 90' economically.. most people in S. Ossetia are friendly to Russia and most of them want to be part of Russia.
A military response was needed to show the Georgians government to not mess around with their own people. But Russia only have to kick Georgia out of S. Ossetia and stop the bombing of civilians and military infrastructure in retaliation.
Let's hope that Russia is more civilized than Israel.
And as far as I know russia doesn't give a damn about who dies when they hit their target as long as they hit it.
inane little opines
So we role over each time a country that isnt a weak POS does something? I mean hell, I dont want, war, we dont need war, and this can be solved without war. But you can just go fucking appeasing everyone. Look at what you just said, then reread my post on WWII that you quoted.jord wrote:
No we shouldn't. Unlike saving Iraq or Afghanistan Russia is actually a proper force that would do some serious damage.Commie Killer wrote:
Europe should do it, as it is their back yard, even if Georgia aint part of the EU. But someone has got to do something, not militarily, least hopefully not, but something that strikes home on the Russians.
First came the Rhineland, then came the Sudetenland, then came Czechoslovakia, and then came Poland and WWII.
I'll pass on saving Georgia for now thanks.
People said the same shit about Germany back in the day. This is like an exact replica. A small piece of Georgia, South Ossetia first, sounds like a small piece of Czechoslovakia called teh Sudetenland.
Now ask yourself is it really ok to just write away a country? What kind of a message is that sending the world?
Dunno. What kind of message was being sent when NATO did the same thing in Serbia? We started this shit by doing that. As for the whole WW2 thing, give it a rest, the UK alone can destroy Russia outright using Trident SLBM's.Commie Killer wrote:
So we role over each time a country that isnt a weak POS does something? I mean hell, I dont want, war, we dont need war, and this can be solved without war. But you can just go fucking appeasing everyone. Look at what you just said, then reread my post on WWII that you quoted.jord wrote:
No we shouldn't. Unlike saving Iraq or Afghanistan Russia is actually a proper force that would do some serious damage.Commie Killer wrote:
Europe should do it, as it is their back yard, even if Georgia aint part of the EU. But someone has got to do something, not militarily, least hopefully not, but something that strikes home on the Russians.
First came the Rhineland, then came the Sudetenland, then came Czechoslovakia, and then came Poland and WWII.
I'll pass on saving Georgia for now thanks.
People said the same shit about Germany back in the day. This is like an exact replica. A small piece of Georgia, South Ossetia first, sounds like a small piece of Czechoslovakia called teh Sudetenland.
Now ask yourself is it really ok to just write away a country? What kind of a message is that sending the world?
Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-08-10 11:33:10)
When they start coming into the proper EU then it's time. But as for policing the world I'll pass. It was okay in the Middle East in terms of budget and lives because it's a fraction of those lost if we went to war with Russia.Commie Killer wrote:
So we role over each time a country that isnt a weak POS does something? I mean hell, I dont want, war, we dont need war, and this can be solved without war. But you can just go fucking appeasing everyone. Look at what you just said, then reread my post on WWII that you quoted.jord wrote:
No we shouldn't. Unlike saving Iraq or Afghanistan Russia is actually a proper force that would do some serious damage.Commie Killer wrote:
Europe should do it, as it is their back yard, even if Georgia aint part of the EU. But someone has got to do something, not militarily, least hopefully not, but something that strikes home on the Russians.
First came the Rhineland, then came the Sudetenland, then came Czechoslovakia, and then came Poland and WWII.
I'll pass on saving Georgia for now thanks.
People said the same shit about Germany back in the day. This is like an exact replica. A small piece of Georgia, South Ossetia first, sounds like a small piece of Czechoslovakia called teh Sudetenland.
Now ask yourself is it really ok to just write away a country? What kind of a message is that sending the world?
How is not going to war with Russia fucking appeasing them? It's called not getting involved in something that the EU has no right to. Appeasing would be if we let Russia come across all the borders and made them welcome. You need to learnt what the word means.
What do you mean what message is that sending the world? What message is it sending the world if we go in guns blazing to rescue Georgia but we ignore the other atrocities in the world? We can't just pick and choose when we canna help of who.
Im not saying its right, Im calling it how I see it. And when I see a country get fucked by its enemies and by its allies, that isnt right. Now when I also see things like this:Mek-Stizzle wrote:
Dunno. What kind of message was being sent when NATO did the same thing in Serbia? We started this shit by doing that. As for the whole WW2 thing, give it a rest, the UK alone can destroy Russia outright using Trident SLBM's.Commie Killer wrote:
So we role over each time a country that isnt a weak POS does something? I mean hell, I dont want, war, we dont need war, and this can be solved without war. But you can just go fucking appeasing everyone. Look at what you just said, then reread my post on WWII that you quoted.jord wrote:
No we shouldn't. Unlike saving Iraq or Afghanistan Russia is actually a proper force that would do some serious damage.
I'll pass on saving Georgia for now thanks.
People said the same shit about Germany back in the day. This is like an exact replica. A small piece of Georgia, South Ossetia first, sounds like a small piece of Czechoslovakia called teh Sudetenland.
Now ask yourself is it really ok to just write away a country? What kind of a message is that sending the world?
TBILISI, Georgia (AP) — Georgia called a cease-fire and said its troops were retreating Sunday from the disputed province of South Ossetia in the face of Russia's far superior firepower. Russia said the soldiers were "not withdrawing but regrouping" and refused to recognize a truce.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080810/ap_ … th_ossetia
Im not gonna even comment on Serbia cause I admit it, I dont know jack shit. Virtually nothing about the whole conflict. Im just some 17 year old whose posting on the internet, which is exactly what you are doing(16 right?). Maybe that nullifiys my opinion as people may consider me ignorant as to the way the world works, but thats their opinion.
All Im gonna say is I dont like the way the Russians are acting, or the lack of response from NATO. Not even a diplomatic attempt of putting pressure on the Russians. I wont speak of WWII again, maybe its to far a stretch, maybe Im just crazy, but then again. Im calling it as I see it.
I'm 19. I know a fair bit about the whole Serbia (Yugoslavia)/Kosovo thing. It's quite similar to this situation. To put it simple.
Kosovo declares independence, Serbia rejects it. Serbia invades Kosovo. NATO comes in and saves Kosovo.
It's almost exactly the same as this shit with Georgia/Russia
S.Ossetia declares independence, after a civil war in Georgia. Georgia rejects it, invades S.Ossetia. Russia comes in and saves S.Ossetia. Except this time, it makes more sense than NATO involvement in Kosovo. Because S.Ossetia is full of Russian citizens, people who want to be apart of Russia than Georgia and the fact that Russia actually borders the country in question, so it matters more to them than some multinational force.
Why the fuck do most people here think I'm sort of 16 year old. Fuck that man. You barely post here. Who the fuck are you.
Kosovo declares independence, Serbia rejects it. Serbia invades Kosovo. NATO comes in and saves Kosovo.
It's almost exactly the same as this shit with Georgia/Russia
S.Ossetia declares independence, after a civil war in Georgia. Georgia rejects it, invades S.Ossetia. Russia comes in and saves S.Ossetia. Except this time, it makes more sense than NATO involvement in Kosovo. Because S.Ossetia is full of Russian citizens, people who want to be apart of Russia than Georgia and the fact that Russia actually borders the country in question, so it matters more to them than some multinational force.
Why the fuck do most people here think I'm sort of 16 year old. Fuck that man. You barely post here. Who the fuck are you.
Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-08-10 11:51:13)
Who the fuck said anything about guns blazing, if you got that from my posts, Im sorry, I dont mean that. But when your with your friend, and hes getting beaten up, do you do anything, or just sit there? Now if your gonna tell me just because Georgia isnt part of the EU is not your buisness, thats BS. Thats like saying because your friend doesnt live next door its not your problem.jord wrote:
When they start coming into the proper EU then it's time. But as for policing the world I'll pass. It was okay in the Middle East in terms of budget and lives because it's a fraction of those lost if we went to war with Russia.Commie Killer wrote:
So we role over each time a country that isnt a weak POS does something? I mean hell, I dont want, war, we dont need war, and this can be solved without war. But you can just go fucking appeasing everyone. Look at what you just said, then reread my post on WWII that you quoted.jord wrote:
No we shouldn't. Unlike saving Iraq or Afghanistan Russia is actually a proper force that would do some serious damage.
I'll pass on saving Georgia for now thanks.
People said the same shit about Germany back in the day. This is like an exact replica. A small piece of Georgia, South Ossetia first, sounds like a small piece of Czechoslovakia called teh Sudetenland.
Now ask yourself is it really ok to just write away a country? What kind of a message is that sending the world?
How is not going to war with Russia fucking appeasing them? It's called not getting involved in something that the EU has no right to. Appeasing would be if we let Russia come across all the borders and made them welcome. You need to learnt what the word means.
What do you mean what message is that sending the world? What message is it sending the world if we go in guns blazing to rescue Georgia but we ignore the other atrocities in the world? We can't just pick and choose when we canna help of who.
It's nothing like that, if he doesn't belong to the EU then he's not my "friend" anyway. He's just some random, who if I help I'm not only gonna get beaten up I'm gonna die. Any my friends will die. And the attackers will die.Commie Killer wrote:
Who the fuck said anything about guns blazing, if you got that from my posts, Im sorry, I dont mean that. But when your with your friend, and hes getting beaten up, do you do anything, or just sit there? Now if your gonna tell me just because Georgia isnt part of the EU is not your buisness, thats BS. Thats like saying because your friend doesnt live next door its not your problem.jord wrote:
When they start coming into the proper EU then it's time. But as for policing the world I'll pass. It was okay in the Middle East in terms of budget and lives because it's a fraction of those lost if we went to war with Russia.Commie Killer wrote:
So we role over each time a country that isnt a weak POS does something? I mean hell, I dont want, war, we dont need war, and this can be solved without war. But you can just go fucking appeasing everyone. Look at what you just said, then reread my post on WWII that you quoted.
People said the same shit about Germany back in the day. This is like an exact replica. A small piece of Georgia, South Ossetia first, sounds like a small piece of Czechoslovakia called teh Sudetenland.
Now ask yourself is it really ok to just write away a country? What kind of a message is that sending the world?
How is not going to war with Russia fucking appeasing them? It's called not getting involved in something that the EU has no right to. Appeasing would be if we let Russia come across all the borders and made them welcome. You need to learnt what the word means.
What do you mean what message is that sending the world? What message is it sending the world if we go in guns blazing to rescue Georgia but we ignore the other atrocities in the world? We can't just pick and choose when we canna help of who.
It isn't bullshit. You protect your allies like you do your close friends. Or we'd be in half of Africa, Baltic countries, the far East and probably a whole lot more places.
I read a post where I remembered seeing that. Calm the fuck down, just because you dont remember seeing my name means I dont know shit? Lets try to keep this from getting personal, Id hate to get in a pissing match with someone on the internet, heh. But first, I must tell you too fuck off on a matter of principle. Now that we've both made dumbass insulting statements to each other that are pointless. Lets debate the topic at hand. Now we cool?Mek-Stizzle wrote:
I'm 19. I know a fair bit about the whole Serbia (Yugoslavia)/Kosovo thing. It's quite similar to this situation. To put it simple.
Kosovo declares independence, Serbia rejects it. Serbia invades Kosovo. NATO comes in and saves Kosovo.
It's almost exactly the same as this shit with Georgia/Russia
S.Ossetia declares independence, after a civil war in Georgia. Georgia rejects it, invades S.Ossetia. Russia comes in and saves S.Ossetia. Except this time, it makes more sense than NATO involvement in Kosovo. Because S.Ossetia is full of Russian citizens, people who want to be apart of Russia than Georgia and the fact that Russia actually borders the country in question, so it matters more to them than some multinational force.
Why the fuck do most people here think I'm sort of 16 year old. Fuck that man. You barely post here. Who the fuck are you.
That said, South Ossetia is only full of Russian citizens because Russia's giving out citizenship to anyone who will take it there. But, if you want to ignore that, then if they want to be part of Russia, they can do like Jord says and go live in Russia. Now, compared to when the Serbs invaded, the Georgians are NOT committing war crimes, which was a main reason NATO invaded Serbia, ironically, its the Russians that are committing the war crimes. Also, your comparison between Russia-Georgia and Yugoslavia-NATO doesnt work out. Russia boarders Georgia, but Yugoslavia also boarders NATO members.
What if a part of your country like Scotland wanted to break off and join another country, how would you feel? Putting all the joking racism that you guys have aside, how would you feel?
..well, there was a bit more to it than that. You left out all of Croatia and Bosnia, the ethnic cleansing of villiages, the complete ineffectiveness of the UN peacekeepers, and that Bill Clinton wanted a leagacy of peace.Mek-Stizzle wrote:
I'm 19. I know a fair bit about the whole Serbia (Yugoslavia)/Kosovo thing. It's quite similar to this situation. To put it simple.
Kosovo declares independence, Serbia rejects it. Serbia invades Kosovo. NATO comes in and saves Kosovo.
It's almost exactly the same as this shit with Georgia/Russia
Grozny was once again the epicenter of fighting after the outbreak of the Second Chechen War, which further caused thousands of fatalities. During the early phase of the Russian siege on Grozny in October 25, 1999, Russian forces launched five SS-21 ballistic missiles at the crowded central bazaar and a maternity ward, killing more than 140 people and injuring hundreds. During the massive shelling of the city that followed, most of the Russian artillery were directed toward the upper floors of the buildings; although this caused massive destruction of infrastructure, civilian casualties were much less than in the first battles. The enormous scale of the devastation prompted numerous comparisons with Hiroshima [2] and other cities leveled during World War II.M.O.A.B wrote:
You haven't seen Grozny have you?AutralianChainsaw wrote:
Like them or not, Russia have every right to protect their interest in that region..
They have been helping S. Ossetia since early 90' economically.. most people in S. Ossetia are friendly to Russia and most of them want to be part of Russia.
A military response was needed to show the Georgians government to not mess around with their own people. But Russia only have to kick Georgia out of S. Ossetia and stop the bombing of civilians and military infrastructure in retaliation.
Let's hope that Russia is more civilized than Israel.
The final seizure of the city was set in early February 2000, when the Russian military lured the besieged militants to a promised safe passage. Seeing that there was no build-up of forces outside, the militants agreed. During one day prior to the planned evacuation, the Russian Army mined the path between the city and the open the village of Alkhan-Kala and concentrated most firepower on that point. As the result, both the city mayor and military commander were killed; a number of other prominent separatist leaders were also killed or wounded, including Shamil Basayev and several hundred rank-and-file militants. Afterwards, the Russians slowly entered the empty city and on February 6 raised the Russian flag in the centre. Many buildings and even whole areas of the city were systematically dynamited. A month later, it was declared safe to allow the residents to return to their homes, although demolishing continued for some time. In 2003 the United Nations called Grozny the most destroyed city on earth.[3]
So he doesn't have to look it up.
No one is going to war here, so that means no nukes falling on cities. Now Georgia wishes to be part of NATO, if it still exisits, it probably will be part of NATO by December 2009, generally, you can get much closer to allies then that. The point is, even if you dont consider them close friends, they consider NATO close friends. They have troops, or more accuratelly, had troops in Iraq, now I know not everyone here agrees with that and theres not reason to debate that in this thread. But the point is, they are giving out for the countries they consider their allies, NATO, and we are proceeding to fuck them in the ass when they need a voice of reason over there.jord wrote:
It's nothing like that, if he doesn't belong to the EU then he's not my "friend" anyway. He's just some random, who if I help I'm not only gonna get beaten up I'm gonna die. Any my friends will die. And the attackers will die.
It isn't bullshit. You protect your allies like you do your close friends. Or we'd be in half of Africa, Baltic countries, the far East and probably a whole lot more places.
They declared war, and now THEY want help. Don't declare war unless you think you can win.Commie Killer wrote:
No one is going to war here, so that means no nukes falling on cities. Now Georgia wishes to be part of NATO, if it still exisits, it probably will be part of NATO by December 2009, generally, you can get much closer to allies then that. The point is, even if you dont consider them close friends, they consider NATO close friends. They have troops, or more accuratelly, had troops in Iraq, now I know not everyone here agrees with that and theres not reason to debate that in this thread. But the point is, they are giving out for the countries they consider their allies, NATO, and we are proceeding to fuck them in the ass when they need a voice of reason over there.jord wrote:
It's nothing like that, if he doesn't belong to the EU then he's not my "friend" anyway. He's just some random, who if I help I'm not only gonna get beaten up I'm gonna die. Any my friends will die. And the attackers will die.
It isn't bullshit. You protect your allies like you do your close friends. Or we'd be in half of Africa, Baltic countries, the far East and probably a whole lot more places.
And, weren't there people protesting outside 10 DS in UK?
Why don't they go join the Georgian Army? Its not our war, and it never will be. Let Georgia sort their own mess out.
I imagine they declared war because they thought people would come to their aid.SEREVENT wrote:
They declared war, and now THEY want help. Don't declare war unless you think you can win.Commie Killer wrote:
No one is going to war here, so that means no nukes falling on cities. Now Georgia wishes to be part of NATO, if it still exisits, it probably will be part of NATO by December 2009, generally, you can get much closer to allies then that. The point is, even if you dont consider them close friends, they consider NATO close friends. They have troops, or more accuratelly, had troops in Iraq, now I know not everyone here agrees with that and theres not reason to debate that in this thread. But the point is, they are giving out for the countries they consider their allies, NATO, and we are proceeding to fuck them in the ass when they need a voice of reason over there.jord wrote:
It's nothing like that, if he doesn't belong to the EU then he's not my "friend" anyway. He's just some random, who if I help I'm not only gonna get beaten up I'm gonna die. Any my friends will die. And the attackers will die.
It isn't bullshit. You protect your allies like you do your close friends. Or we'd be in half of Africa, Baltic countries, the far East and probably a whole lot more places.
And, weren't there people protesting outside 10 DS in UK?
Why don't they go join the Georgian Army? Its not our war, and it never will be. Let Georgia sort their own mess out.
Reuters
Btw...weren't the Georgians allowing the Chechens to use the Pankisi Gorge to resupply, rearm, and train for operations against the Russians a few years back?
I knew the whole regime change/GWoT rhetoric would come back to bite the US in the ass. I didn't suspect it would happen so soon.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLUS suggests Russia wants "regime change" in Georgia
10 Aug 2008 18:26:29 GMT
Source: Reuters
(Recasts with U.S., Russian and Georgian envoys)
By Louis Charbonneau
UNITED NATIONS, Aug 10 (Reuters) - The United States suggested on Sunday that Russia was interested in "regime change" in Georgia after Moscow rejected Tbilisi's offer of a cease-fire in the separatist region of South Ossetia.
Btw...weren't the Georgians allowing the Chechens to use the Pankisi Gorge to resupply, rearm, and train for operations against the Russians a few years back?
I knew the whole regime change/GWoT rhetoric would come back to bite the US in the ass. I didn't suspect it would happen so soon.
Actually mate, that's not exactly how things happened. I mean Kosovo did not up and declare independence just like that. There's history behind it. There's the involvement of the Albanians. There's ethnic albanian minorities in Kosovo causing all kinds of trouble. There's the CIA helping the UCK. There are major western powers seeking to destroy Yugoslavia to begin with and later Serbia. The Balkans (and the ME) are the most complex area in the world in terms of the relations between nations, the various conflicts that have taken place, and the intervention by the world's powerful nations.Mek-Stizzle wrote:
I'm 19. I know a fair bit about the whole Serbia (Yugoslavia)/Kosovo thing. It's quite similar to this situation. To put it simple.
Kosovo declares independence, Serbia rejects it. Serbia invades Kosovo. NATO comes in and saves Kosovo.
It's almost exactly the same as this shit with Georgia/Russia
There is no bad Serbia, good Albania etc. Things are never so simple and clear.
ƒ³
I know its Russia and they are pretty fucked up but tiny Georgia decided to start shooting and now that they are getting their asses handed to them, they are crying for help and want the war to stop. Should have think of that before bombing S. Ossetia.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
Dude. It's RUSSIA.AutralianChainsaw wrote:
Like them or not, Russia have every right to protect their interest in that region..
They have been helping S. Ossetia since early 90' economically.. most people in S. Ossetia are friendly to Russia and most of them want to be part of Russia.
A military response was needed to show the Georgians government to not mess around with their own people. But Russia only have to kick Georgia out of S. Ossetia and stop the bombing of civilians and military infrastructure in retaliation.
Let's hope that Russia is more civilized than Israel.
I cant believe im supporting the big power against the underdog.
Why would we come to their aid though?jord wrote:
I imagine they declared war because they thought people would come to their aid.SEREVENT wrote:
They declared war, and now THEY want help. Don't declare war unless you think you can win.Commie Killer wrote:
No one is going to war here, so that means no nukes falling on cities. Now Georgia wishes to be part of NATO, if it still exisits, it probably will be part of NATO by December 2009, generally, you can get much closer to allies then that. The point is, even if you dont consider them close friends, they consider NATO close friends. They have troops, or more accuratelly, had troops in Iraq, now I know not everyone here agrees with that and theres not reason to debate that in this thread. But the point is, they are giving out for the countries they consider their allies, NATO, and we are proceeding to fuck them in the ass when they need a voice of reason over there.
And, weren't there people protesting outside 10 DS in UK?
Why don't they go join the Georgian Army? Its not our war, and it never will be. Let Georgia sort their own mess out.
Thats my point. They started it.
how does it bite us in the ass? we aint the ones dying. wth are you talking about?Masques wrote:
I knew the whole regime change/GWoT rhetoric would come back to bite the US in the ass. I didn't suspect it would happen so soon.
They didn't start it, they just declared war. After days of getting bombed...SEREVENT wrote:
Why would we come to their aid though?jord wrote:
I imagine they declared war because they thought people would come to their aid.SEREVENT wrote:
They declared war, and now THEY want help. Don't declare war unless you think you can win.
And, weren't there people protesting outside 10 DS in UK?
Why don't they go join the Georgian Army? Its not our war, and it never will be. Let Georgia sort their own mess out.
Thats my point. They started it.