SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6907|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
OK first off, I have noticed A LOT of Israel = Bad going on here. I feel that both sides should be shown here.

May 22, 1970 - Avivim, Israel
Terrorists attack schoolbus, killing 12 (9 of whom were children), and wounding 24.

May 30, 1972 - Lod airport
26 killed and 78 wounded after PFLP and Japanese Red Army terrorists open fire in the passenger terminal.

Apr 11, 1974 - Kiryat Shemona, Israel | 18 killed, 8 of whom were children, by PFLP terrorists who detonated their explosives during a failed rescue attempt by Israeli authorities.


May 15, 1974 - Maalot, Israel
27 killed, 21 of whom were children, and 78 wounded by PFLP terrorists in a school, after an unsuccessful rescue attempt.{/color]

Jul 4, 1975 - Jerusalem, Israel
14 killed and 80 injured in Zion Square bombing attack, in which the bomb was hidden in a refrigerator.

Mar 11, 1978 - Glilot junction
36 killed, and over 100 injured, in a bus hijacking by a female-led Palestinian terrorist gang.

Sep 6, 1986 - Istanbul, Turkey
Abu Nidal organization attacks the Neveh Shalom synagogue, killing 22 people.


Aug 21, 1988 - Haifa
25 wounded in a grenade attack at the Haifa mall.

Jul 6, 1989 - Tel Aviv
14 killed when a terrorist steered a bus into a ravine off the Jerusalem-Tel Aviv highway.


Jump forward a few years, let's see if they stopped.....

Oct 4, 2001 - Sgt. Tali Ben-Armon, 19, an off-duty woman soldier from Pardesia, Haim Ben-Ezra, 76, of Givat Hamoreh, and Sergei Freidin, 20, of Afula were killed when a Palestinian terrorist, dressed as an Israeli paratrooper, opened fire on Israeli civilians waiting at the central bus station in Afula. 13 other Israelis were wounded in the attack. Fatah claimed responsibility for the attack.

Oct 28, 2001 - Ayala Levy, 39, of Elyachin; Smadar Levy, 23, of Hadera; Lydia Marko, 63, of Givat Ada; and Sima Menahem, 30, of Zichron Yaakov were killed when two Palestinian terrorists, members of the Palestinian police, armed with assault rifles and expanding bullets, opened fire from a vehicle on Israeli pedestrians at a crowded bus-stop in downtown Hadera. About 40 were wounded, three critically. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsiblity for the attack.

Nov 4, 2001 - Shoshana Ben Ishai, 16, of Betar Illit and Menashe (Meni) Regev, 14, of Jerusalem were killed when a Palestinian terrorist opened fire with a sub-machine gun shortly before 16:00 at a No. 25 Egged bus at the French Hill junction in northern Jerusalem. 45 people were injured in the attack.

Nov 27, 2001 - Noam Gozovsky, 23, of Moshav Ramat Zvi, and Michal Mor, 25, of Afula were killed when two Palestinian terrorists from the Jenin area opened fire with Kalashnikov assault rifles on a crowd of people near the central bus station in Afula. Police officers and a reserve soldier confronted them, killing the terrorists in the ensuing firefight. Another 50 people were injured, 10 of them moderately to seriously. Fatah and the Islamic Jihad claimed joint responsibility.

Dec 1, 2001 - Assaf Avitan, 15, of Jerusalem; Michael Moshe Dahan, 21, of Jerusalem; Israel Ya'akov Danino, 17, of Jerusalem; Yosef El-Ezra, 18, of Jerusalem; Sgt. Nir Haftzadi, 19, of Jerusalem; Yuri (Yoni) Korganov, 20, of Ma'alei Adumim; Golan Turgeman, 15, of Jerusalem; Guy Vaknin, 19, of Jerusalem; Adam Weinstein, 14, of Givon Hahadasha, and Moshe Yedid-Levy, 19, of Jerusalem were killed and about 180 injured - 17 seriously - when explosive devices were detonated by two suicide bombers close to 11:30 P.M. Saturday night on Ben Yehuda Street, the pedestrian mall in the center of Jerusalem. A car bomb exploded nearby 20 minutes later. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.
Ido Cohen, 17, of Jerusalem, fatally injured in the attack, died of his wounds on December 8.


Dec 12, 2001 - Yair Amar, 13, of Emmanuel; Esther Avraham, 42, of Emmanuel; Border Police Chief Warrant Officer Yoel Bienenfeld, 35, of Moshav Tel Shahar; Moshe Gutman, 40, of Emmanuel; Avraham Nahman Nitzani, 17, of Betar Illit; Yirmiyahu Salem, 48, of Emmanuel; Israel Sternberg, 46, of Emmanuel; David Tzarfati, 38, of Ginot Shomron; Hananya Tzarfati, 32, of Kfar Saba; Ya'akov Tzarfati, 64, of Kfar Saba were killed when three terrorists attacked a No. 189 Dan bus and several passenger cars with a roadside bomb, anti-tank grenades, and light arms fire near the entrance to Emmanuel in Samaria at 18:00 P.M. About 30 others were injured. Both Fatah and Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.
Haim Chiprot, 52, of Emmanuel, injured in the attack, died of his wounds on March 25, 2002.


Jan 17, 2002 - Edward Bakshayev, 48, of Or Akiva; Anatoly Bakshayev, 63, of Or Akiva; Aharon Ben Yisrael-Ellis, 32, of Ra'anana; Dina Binayev, 48, of Ashkelon; Boris Melikhov, 56, of Sderot; and Avi Yazdi, 25, of Hadera were killed and 35 injured, several seriously, when a terrorist burst into a bat mitzva reception in a banquet hall in Hadera shortly before 23:00, opening fire with an M-16 assault rifle. The Fatah Al-Aqsa Brigades claimed responsibility for the attack.

Mar 27, 2002 - 30 people were killed and 140 injured - 20 seriously - in a suicide bombing in the Park Hotel in the coastal city of Netanya, in the midst of the Passover holiday seder with 250 guests. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.
The victims: Shula Abramovitch, 63, of Holon; David Anichovitch, 70, of Netanya; Sgt.-Maj. Avraham Beckerman, 25, of Ashdod; Shimon Ben-Aroya, 42, of Netanya; Andre Fried, 47, of Netanya; Idit Fried, 47, of Netanya; Miriam Gutenzgan, 82, Ramat Gan; Ami Hamami, 44, of Netanya; Perla Hermele, 79, of Sweden; Dvora Karim, 73, of Netanya; Michael Karim, 78, of Netanya; Yehudit Korman, 70, of Ramat Hasharon; Marianne Myriam Lehmann Zaoui, 77, of Netanya; Lola Levkovitch, 85, of Jerusalem; Furuk Na'imi, 62, of Netanya; Eliahu Nakash, 85, of Tel-Aviv; Irit Rashel, 45, of Moshav Herev La'et; Yulia Talmi, 87, of Tel-Aviv; St.-Sgt. Sivan Vider, 20, of Bekaot; Ernest Weiss, 79, of Petah Tikva; Eva Weiss, 75, of Petah Tikva; Meir (George) Yakobovitch, 76, of Holon.
Chanah Rogan, 92, of Netanya; Zee'v Vider, 50, of Moshav Bekaot; Alter Britvich, 88, and his wife Frieda, 86, of Netanya died of their injuries on April 2-3, 2002.
Sarah Levy-Hoffman, 89, of Tel-Aviv died of her injuries on April 7, 2002.
Anna Yakobovitch, 78, of Holon died of her injuries on April 11, 2002.
Eliezer Korman, 74, of Ramat Hasharon died of his wounds on May 5, 2002.
Clara Rosenberger, 77, of Jerusalem died of her wounds on June 25, 2003.


Now I have left off the attacks on Military targets, this is not all the attacks. These are attacks on regular Israeli people.

People wonder why Israel responds so voilently?

For Braddock the sources.
http://www.adl.org/Israel/israel_attacks.asp
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+About+I … ttacks.htm

Last edited by SgtHeihn (2008-08-12 10:54:49)

.Sup
be nice
+2,646|6873|The Twilight Zone
You should have organized this with colors.
https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|7091|UK
lol
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,072|7191|PNW

One thing I've noticed is how easily Americans forget that there is mutual faction angst older than the United States going on at some of the hotspots on the planet.

.Sup wrote:

You should have organized this with colors.
.Sup
be nice
+2,646|6873|The Twilight Zone

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

One thing I've noticed is how easily Americans forget that there is mutual faction angst older than the United States going on at some of the hotspots on the planet.

.Sup wrote:

You should have organized this with colors.
He will, just give him time.
https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png
san4
The Mas
+311|7108|NYC, a place to live
If people stole your land, I'm sure you would murder children to get it back. How else could you possibly get your land back?





Do I really need to add the /sarcasm tag?
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|7091|UK
glad you're finally seeing the light mr christian zionist crusader.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6573|what

Both sides attack each other and then both sides attack with retaliation attacks and then both sides attack with further retaliation attacks, ad nauseum.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
PureFodder
Member
+225|6705
Go read up on the numbers of Palestinian and Israeli civillian casualties. The Palestinians civillians are getting it way worse than the Israelis.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7021|132 and Bush

No they bring it on other Palestinians.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7136
Cameron Poe and his brothers anti Israel support beepers just went off and they are gathering data of Israeli attacks on the innocent Palestinians as we speak...lol...

These people will not stop fighting till nobody is left...
Love is the answer
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7052|949

I think you missed a few.

I don't wonder why they respond so violently, I wonder if the Israeli powers that be actually think that anything will get accomplished with continual use of force.  Obviously the various terrorist groups understand that Israeli aggression towards terrorist hideouts in civilian areas result in negative publicity.  It seems to me like the Israeli elites fully understand what they are doing and want to continue the violence in the region, just like many of the terrorist groups.

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

These people will not stop fighting till nobody is left...
Possibly a sad reality perpetuated by all involved parties.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2008-08-12 00:10:26)

CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6975
Two wrongs don't make a right. Unnecessarily providing Palestinians with 'justification' for such heinous actions is also not right. Invariably a weaker party in a conflict will resort to more underhanded tactics against a goliath. It's a great shame they don't just concentrate on military targets and 'aggressors/invaders' - those that have settled in internationally recognised pre-67 Palestinian territory.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6526|eXtreme to the maX
List all the atrocities comitted by the Israelis against Palestinian civilians and we'll have something to talk about.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-08-12 02:37:53)

Fuck Israel
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6710|Éire

SgtHeihn wrote:

I feel that both sides should be shown here.
Seems to me like you're only showing one side.

It would be just as easy to list all the heavy handed attacks by Israel over the years but what would be the point? As Cam points out, two wrongs don't make a right. Israel have an actual recognised state with a fully functioning Government and a military that is bolstered by huge US donations on an annual basis, they should not be carrying on in the same way as the rogue militant groups they are fighting. Palestine must be allowed to establish a fully recognised and functional state in order to finally reel in these militant groups and the short sighted approach of Israel is never going to enable this, Israel always seem more concerned that more Palestinians than Jews are killed in the back and forth fighting instead of making the concessions needed to secure some form of meaningful peace with their neighbours...and it is Israel who have to make the concessions, they are the ones who set up a state in someone else's land.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7156|Salt Lake City

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

These people will not stop fighting till nobody is left...
And this is a problem why?
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6710|Éire
Palestinian Deaths vs Israeli Death. September 28, 2000 - February 15, 2006

Total Number of Palestinian deaths: 4209

            Children: 892
            Women: 273
            Men: 3044

            Palestinians killed by Jewish settlers: 72
            Palestinians killed as a result of Israeli shelling: 83
            Deaths as a result of medical prevention at Israeli checkpoints: 117
            Of them stillbirths (born dead at checkpoints): 31
            Number of Palestinians extra-judicially assassinated: 561
            Of them bystanders killed during extra-judicial operations: 253

Total Number of Israeli deaths: 1556

            Children: 113
            Women: 305
            Men: 603

            Settlers: 213
            Soldiers: 322

Last edited by Braddock (2008-08-12 07:02:17)

FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6831|'Murka

You forgot to mention all the Palestinians killed when Israel struck militant areas clearly identified in accordance with international law...

Oh, that's right. The Palestinian militants purposefully don't follow international law by hiding their military infrastructure within the civilian infrastructure and intentionally targeting civilians. The latter causes retaliation, the former causes increased Palestinian civilian casualties...do you really think Hamas doesn't realize this?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6975

FEOS wrote:

You forgot to mention all the Palestinians killed when Israel struck militant areas clearly identified in accordance with international law...

Oh, that's right. The Palestinian militants purposefully don't follow international law by hiding their military infrastructure within the civilian infrastructure and intentionally targeting civilians. The latter causes retaliation, the former causes increased Palestinian civilian casualties...do you really think Hamas doesn't realize this?
That's why international law vis a vis war is outdated and ridiculous. A vastly militarily weaker party in a conflict must necessarily fight asymetrically. Do you expect them to file out into the plains to be mown down in a clear hail of machinegun fire? I think not. The onus is on the vastly militarily stronger party to find a more effective way of combatting their opponent, in my view. The Israelis have tried the indiscriminate cluster bombing tack in Lebanon and presumably Gaza - has that weakened or defeated their enemy? No. Ergo they must find another solution.

I have deep contempt for anyone who targets civilians specifically as Hamas have done, I also have contempt for anyone who collectively punished civilians or uses tactics that inevitably end up with large numbers of unnecessary civilian deaths/wounded, I don't see any problem in hiding amongst the civilian populace when you are far weaker than your opponent militarily (provided you aren't targetting civilians yourself) - to do otherwise would be to sign your own death warrant.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-08-12 07:48:39)

FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6831|'Murka

CameronPoe wrote:

FEOS wrote:

You forgot to mention all the Palestinians killed when Israel struck militant areas clearly identified in accordance with international law...

Oh, that's right. The Palestinian militants purposefully don't follow international law by hiding their military infrastructure within the civilian infrastructure and intentionally targeting civilians. The latter causes retaliation, the former causes increased Palestinian civilian casualties...do you really think Hamas doesn't realize this?
That's why international law vis a vis war is outdated and ridiculous. A vastly militarily weaker party in a conflict must necessarily fight asymetrically. Do you expect them to file out into the plains to be mown down in a clear hail of machinegun fire? I think not. The onus is on the vastly militarily stronger party to find a more effective way of combatting their opponent, in my view. The Israelis have tried the indiscriminate cluster bombing tack in Lebanon and presumably Gaza - has that weakened or defeated their enemy? No. Ergo they must find another solution.
That's not the intent and you know it. The intent of the law is to prevent exactly what is occurring: civilians being killed by legitimate, legal military strikes against an adversary. Hamas can continue to fight asymmetrically without putting their entire militant infrastructure embedded in civilian areas...that's why camouflage isn't illegal.

The cluster bombs used in Lebanon were a small, small minority of all munitions dropped--the vast majority were PGMs.

Finding "another solution" that ends up with deaths of your civilians is unacceptable...unless you are base enough to desire those deaths for PR purposes.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6526|eXtreme to the maX
Hamas is a militia, they don't have a 'military infrastructure' in the normal sense any more than the French resistance did.
Give them $100bn in backdated military aid and maybe they'd do better.
Fuck Israel
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6975

FEOS wrote:

That's not the intent and you know it. The intent of the law is to prevent exactly what is occurring: civilians being killed by legitimate, legal military strikes against an adversary. Hamas can continue to fight asymmetrically without putting their entire militant infrastructure embedded in civilian areas...that's why camouflage isn't illegal.

The cluster bombs used in Lebanon were a small, small minority of all munitions dropped--the vast majority were PGMs.

Finding "another solution" that ends up with deaths of your civilians is unacceptable...unless you are base enough to desire those deaths for PR purposes.
Sending an army into the warzone to fight the other army rather than doing the job from the underbelly of an airplane or from the comfort of your artillery battery would be the most honourable and efficient way to do it. None of your own civilians need die. If the IRB had been running around in uniform throughout our struggle with the Brits I'd probably be posting from 'the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland' right now.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6962|Texas - Bigger than France
Do they bring it on themselves?

Yes.  And I mean both sides.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6831|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

Hamas is a militia, they don't have a 'military infrastructure' in the normal sense any more than the French resistance did.
Give them $100bn in backdated military aid and maybe they'd do better.
You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either the laws apply to both or they apply to neither.

Here's a bit of education for you:
- Hamas has to build rockets. The places where they build those rockets are called...say it with me kids...infrastructure.
- Hamas has to build IEDs (suicide vest or otherwise). The places where they build those IEDs are called...you guessed it...infrastructure.
- Hamas has to train militants to carry out these missions. The places where they train those militants? That's right...infrastructure.
- Hamas has to arm militants. The storage areas and routes used to bring in those weapons and ammo are called...infrastructure.

Read a bit, Dilbert. It might help you form more valid arguments. In your reading, you might want to investigate how the French Resistance got their weapons, training, and such. It's known as infrastructure.

The amount of military aid received by either side is completely irrelevant to the point of discussion.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6907|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)

Braddock wrote:

SgtHeihn wrote:

I feel that both sides should be shown here.
Seems to me like you're only showing one side.

It would be just as easy to list all the heavy handed attacks by Israel over the years but what would be the point? As Cam points out, two wrongs don't make a right. Israel have an actual recognised state with a fully functioning Government and a military that is bolstered by huge US donations on an annual basis, they should not be carrying on in the same way as the rogue militant groups they are fighting. Palestine must be allowed to establish a fully recognised and functional state in order to finally reel in these militant groups and the short sighted approach of Israel is never going to enable this, Israel always seem more concerned that more Palestinians than Jews are killed in the back and forth fighting instead of making the concessions needed to secure some form of meaningful peace with their neighbours...and it is Israel who have to make the concessions, they are the ones who set up a state in someone else's land.
No, their are plenty of threads showing Israeli heavy handedness. No one posts any bad stuff about the Palestinians.

Oh and Braddock, don't try and use a wikki site where at the top its says:

The neutrality of this article is disputed.
This article or section is incomplete and may require expansion and/or cleanup.

And the kicker

This article does not cite any references or sources.

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