Another tool that should have never had the word peace anywhere near his name.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
See: Henry Kissinger.Kmarion wrote:
I know, but human rights? Carter supported and helped some of worlds most brutal leaders (Taliban, Tito, Ceausescu, Ortega, and Kim il-sung).KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
C'mon, the award's namesake was an explosives manufacturer. I'm not saying they pick the best candidates, but they are fairly consistent with their choices.
What are we going to assault them with? Ramen Noodles?Reciprocity wrote:
This use of the US military to deliver aid has me really worried. This could turn from humanitarian mission to all out war with Russia in one moment. All it would take is one confusion, one poor choice, one bullet and we'd be in serious shit.
yeah, because our military goes to warzones without guns.Kmarion wrote:
What are we going to assault them with? Ramen Noodles?Reciprocity wrote:
This use of the US military to deliver aid has me really worried. This could turn from humanitarian mission to all out war with Russia in one moment. All it would take is one confusion, one poor choice, one bullet and we'd be in serious shit.
Last edited by Pubic (2008-08-14 03:30:32)
Ok, let me ask you again? Did the price of oil climb from 20 to 150 coz of the increase in the demand from India and China?Kmarion wrote:
Do you think there has been a supply problem?sergeriver wrote:
We all know who Joseph Stiglitz is, but you are entitled to think he is an idiot, because a piece of unsigned paper says other thing than him.Kmarion wrote:
You are entitled to think whatever you want. I simply gave reasoning for why his argument didn't make sense. To which your reply was "Nobel".
No, he's an idiot.FEOS wrote:
Has Mr Stiglitz explained how a war that has not affected production one iota has somehow increased the cost of oil sixfold--that is, instead of increased global demand (to include the two countries that have 1/3 of the world's population)?
Iraq’s inability to secure crude pipelines in the north has meant that exports are generally routed through the southern port of Basrah. According to IRMO/ITAO, crude oil exports have fallen from a post-war high of around 2.0 million bbl/d in 2004, to an average of 1.5 million bbl/d in 2006.
A lack of continuous refining operations has forced the GoI to import light fuels, relying heavily on deals brokered by the USG and the MoO with neighboring countries including Turkey, Iran, Syria and Kuwait. According to SOMO, in May 2006, imports of refined products totaled nearly 160,000 bbl/d. Before the war, Iraq was a large exporter of petroleum products and crude. However, according to the IMF, imports have cost the GoI close to $2.5 billion annually since 2004. In early 2007, the GoI liberalized the fuel import market and now relies on private importers of refined products to meet local demand.
bi. pls, go now. biDefiance wrote:
US = fucked.
Me = Time to exploit French Canadian nativity...
Mostly. Especially when you consider that crude oil prices are based on future demands and futures contracts.sergeriver wrote:
Ok, let me ask you again? Did the price of oil climb from 20 to 150 coz of the increase in the demand from India and China?Kmarion wrote:
Do you think there has been a supply problem?sergeriver wrote:
We all know who Joseph Stiglitz is, but you are entitled to think he is an idiot, because a piece of unsigned paper says other thing than him.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic … 74,00.htmlIts booming economy and burgeoning appetite for cars and other modern conveniences have caused energy demand to soar. China's oil imports doubled over the past five years and surged nearly 40% in the first half of 2004 alone. These increases vaulted the mainland ahead of Japan and into second place among the world's biggest oil consumers, behind only the U.S.
This is from your link:Kmarion wrote:
Mostly. Especially when you consider that crude oil prices are based on future demands and futures contracts.sergeriver wrote:
Ok, let me ask you again? Did the price of oil climb from 20 to 150 coz of the increase in the demand from India and China?Kmarion wrote:
Do you think there has been a supply problem?http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic … 74,00.htmlIts booming economy and burgeoning appetite for cars and other modern conveniences have caused energy demand to soar. China's oil imports doubled over the past five years and surged nearly 40% in the first half of 2004 alone. These increases vaulted the mainland ahead of Japan and into second place among the world's biggest oil consumers, behind only the U.S.
Of course, there are numerous other factors driving the price of crude, among them supply hiccups caused by chaos in Iraq, political and economic turmoil in oil-producing nations such as Nigeria and Russia, hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico, and fears of terrorism. "It is neither fair nor accurate to blame China for most of the rise in oil prices," says Jeffrey Logan of the Paris-based International Energy Agency (IEA).
Of course, those things settle down relatively quick. We should be looking at the long term trend to truly understand what is happening in the market. Remember this whole point revolved around your silly notion the India and China were "just a card" to be played. That's absurd.sergeriver wrote:
This is from your link:Kmarion wrote:
Mostly. Especially when you consider that crude oil prices are based on future demands and futures contracts.sergeriver wrote:
Ok, let me ask you again? Did the price of oil climb from 20 to 150 coz of the increase in the demand from India and China?http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic … 74,00.htmlIts booming economy and burgeoning appetite for cars and other modern conveniences have caused energy demand to soar. China's oil imports doubled over the past five years and surged nearly 40% in the first half of 2004 alone. These increases vaulted the mainland ahead of Japan and into second place among the world's biggest oil consumers, behind only the U.S.Of course, there are numerous other factors driving the price of crude, among them supply hiccups caused by chaos in Iraq, political and economic turmoil in oil-producing nations such as Nigeria and Russia, hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico, and fears of terrorism. "It is neither fair nor accurate to blame China for most of the rise in oil prices," says Jeffrey Logan of the Paris-based International Energy Agency (IEA).
"It is neither fair nor accurate to blame China for most of the rise in oil prices," says Jeffrey Logan of the Paris-based International Energy Agency (IEA).Kmarion wrote:
Of course, those things settle down relatively quick. We should be looking at the long term trend to truly understand what is happening in the market. Remember this whole point revolved around your silly notion the India and China were "just a card" to be played. That's absurd.sergeriver wrote:
This is from your link:Kmarion wrote:
Mostly. Especially when you consider that crude oil prices are based on future demands and futures contracts.sergeriver wrote:
Ok, let me ask you again? Did the price of oil climb from 20 to 150 coz of the increase in the demand from India and China?
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic … 74,00.htmlOf course, there are numerous other factors driving the price of crude, among them supply hiccups caused by chaos in Iraq, political and economic turmoil in oil-producing nations such as Nigeria and Russia, hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico, and fears of terrorism. "It is neither fair nor accurate to blame China for most of the rise in oil prices," says Jeffrey Logan of the Paris-based International Energy Agency (IEA).
I like the fact that you just quoted Iraq as a hiccup though.
That's called an opinion. However, It is an absolute fact that demand has and will continue to increase dramatically because of new emerging economies.sergeriver wrote:
"It is neither fair nor accurate to blame China for most of the rise in oil prices," says Jeffrey Logan of the Paris-based International Energy Agency (IEA).Kmarion wrote:
Of course, those things settle down relatively quick. We should be looking at the long term trend to truly understand what is happening in the market. Remember this whole point revolved around your silly notion the India and China were "just a card" to be played. That's absurd.sergeriver wrote:
This is from your link:
I like the fact that you just quoted Iraq as a hiccup though.
China and India are "just a card"? I haven't even brought India into the picture yet.But with oil in short supply currently, producers are pumping just 1 million barrels more than the 81 million barrels being consumed worldwide every day growing demand from China is clearly having an unwelcome impact. The country accounted for about one-third of the increase in world oil consumption this year, more than any other single nation.
While many of the factors that have caused the oil-price spike appear to be fleeting, there may be no respite from Chinese demand for the foreseeable future. The country's industrial base is gobbling up vast amounts of petrochemicals to make everything from fertilizer to Barbie dolls. The number of cars on mainland roads about 20 million is expected to increase by 2.5 million this year alone. Even if China's blazing GDP growth of 9.4% this year moderates to 8% in 2005, as the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences predicts, the country is now a permanent major player in the global competition for oil. "More than a billion Chinese are joining the oil market," says Bo Lin, an energy specialist at the Asian Development Bank. "How can prices go down?"
So I've heard..lol. I've explained why -->I<-- think he is wrong. There is clearly a surge in oil demand (in Asia). It's predicted to continue into the foreseeable future. Demand is the number one factor in the price of any commodity.sergeriver wrote:
And Joseph Stiglitz thinks Iraq is the main reason too.
I think there's a communication problem here. Stiglitz, you and myself know that the increase in the demand of oil by China and India is a factor. The difference is you think is the main factor while I don't think it is. Is it just a coincidence that the price of oil was 20 $ back in 2003 and now it's close to 150$? Nobody says the increase in the demand won't produce an increase in the oil price, but 7 times?Kmarion wrote:
That's called an opinion. However, It is an absolute fact that demand has and will continue to increase dramatically because of new emerging economies.sergeriver wrote:
"It is neither fair nor accurate to blame China for most of the rise in oil prices," says Jeffrey Logan of the Paris-based International Energy Agency (IEA).Kmarion wrote:
Of course, those things settle down relatively quick. We should be looking at the long term trend to truly understand what is happening in the market. Remember this whole point revolved around your silly notion the India and China were "just a card" to be played. That's absurd.
I like the fact that you just quoted Iraq as a hiccup though.
Try quoting a little more.China and India are "just a card"? I haven't even brought India into the picture yet.But with oil in short supply currently, producers are pumping just 1 million barrels more than the 81 million barrels being consumed worldwide every day growing demand from China is clearly having an unwelcome impact. The country accounted for about one-third of the increase in world oil consumption this year, more than any other single nation.
While many of the factors that have caused the oil-price spike appear to be fleeting, there may be no respite from Chinese demand for the foreseeable future. The country's industrial base is gobbling up vast amounts of petrochemicals to make everything from fertilizer to Barbie dolls. The number of cars on mainland roads about 20 million is expected to increase by 2.5 million this year alone. Even if China's blazing GDP growth of 9.4% this year moderates to 8% in 2005, as the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences predicts, the country is now a permanent major player in the global competition for oil. "More than a billion Chinese are joining the oil market," says Bo Lin, an energy specialist at the Asian Development Bank. "How can prices go down?"So I've heard..lol. I've explained why -->I<-- think he is wrong. There is clearly a surge in oil demand (in Asia). It's predicted to continue into the foreseeable future. Demand is the number one factor in the price of any commodity.sergeriver wrote:
And Joseph Stiglitz thinks Iraq is the main reason too.
Agreed 100%.Lotta_Drool wrote:
Demand for oil will fall drastically over the next 15 years starting in about 7 years from now. Russia and the ME will become dirt poor and democracy will begin to flourish again.
Alternative Energy will be the Internet of this new century and the Renaissance to humanity.
It's no where near $150 now. If there was any miscommunication it was because you said it was "just a card". Implying that there was no relevance to the Chinese/India impact.sergeriver wrote:
I think there's a communication problem here. Stiglitz, you and myself know that the increase in the demand of oil by China and India is a factor. The difference is you think is the main factor while I don't think it is. Is it just a coincidence that the price of oil was 20 $ back in 2003 and now it's close to 150$? Nobody says the increase in the demand won't produce an increase in the oil price, but 7 times?Kmarion wrote:
That's called an opinion. However, It is an absolute fact that demand has and will continue to increase dramatically because of new emerging economies.sergeriver wrote:
"It is neither fair nor accurate to blame China for most of the rise in oil prices," says Jeffrey Logan of the Paris-based International Energy Agency (IEA).
Try quoting a little more.China and India are "just a card"? I haven't even brought India into the picture yet.But with oil in short supply currently, producers are pumping just 1 million barrels more than the 81 million barrels being consumed worldwide every day growing demand from China is clearly having an unwelcome impact. The country accounted for about one-third of the increase in world oil consumption this year, more than any other single nation.
While many of the factors that have caused the oil-price spike appear to be fleeting, there may be no respite from Chinese demand for the foreseeable future. The country's industrial base is gobbling up vast amounts of petrochemicals to make everything from fertilizer to Barbie dolls. The number of cars on mainland roads about 20 million is expected to increase by 2.5 million this year alone. Even if China's blazing GDP growth of 9.4% this year moderates to 8% in 2005, as the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences predicts, the country is now a permanent major player in the global competition for oil. "More than a billion Chinese are joining the oil market," says Bo Lin, an energy specialist at the Asian Development Bank. "How can prices go down?"So I've heard..lol. I've explained why -->I<-- think he is wrong. There is clearly a surge in oil demand (in Asia). It's predicted to continue into the foreseeable future. Demand is the number one factor in the price of any commodity.sergeriver wrote:
And Joseph Stiglitz thinks Iraq is the main reason too.
It was close to 150$ a few weeks ago. You know what I meant there.Kmarion wrote:
It's no where near $150 now. If there was any miscommunication it was because you said it was "just a card". Implying that there was no relevance to the Chinese/India impact.sergeriver wrote:
I think there's a communication problem here. Stiglitz, you and myself know that the increase in the demand of oil by China and India is a factor. The difference is you think is the main factor while I don't think it is. Is it just a coincidence that the price of oil was 20 $ back in 2003 and now it's close to 150$? Nobody says the increase in the demand won't produce an increase in the oil price, but 7 times?Kmarion wrote:
That's called an opinion. However, It is an absolute fact that demand has and will continue to increase dramatically because of new emerging economies.sergeriver wrote:
"It is neither fair nor accurate to blame China for most of the rise in oil prices," says Jeffrey Logan of the Paris-based International Energy Agency (IEA).
Try quoting a little more.China and India are "just a card"? I haven't even brought India into the picture yet.But with oil in short supply currently, producers are pumping just 1 million barrels more than the 81 million barrels being consumed worldwide every day growing demand from China is clearly having an unwelcome impact. The country accounted for about one-third of the increase in world oil consumption this year, more than any other single nation.
While many of the factors that have caused the oil-price spike appear to be fleeting, there may be no respite from Chinese demand for the foreseeable future. The country's industrial base is gobbling up vast amounts of petrochemicals to make everything from fertilizer to Barbie dolls. The number of cars on mainland roads about 20 million is expected to increase by 2.5 million this year alone. Even if China's blazing GDP growth of 9.4% this year moderates to 8% in 2005, as the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences predicts, the country is now a permanent major player in the global competition for oil. "More than a billion Chinese are joining the oil market," says Bo Lin, an energy specialist at the Asian Development Bank. "How can prices go down?"
So I've heard..lol. I've explained why -->I<-- think he is wrong. There is clearly a surge in oil demand (in Asia). It's predicted to continue into the foreseeable future. Demand is the number one factor in the price of any commodity.
Is this a coincidence?
http://i35.tinypic.com/10hkhh5.gif
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/China/Oil.html
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008- … 075648.htm
Again that's just China.
Last edited by Lotta_Drool (2008-08-14 18:07:50)
2000 was the beginning of the Clinton Recession. The (dramatically) falling dollar is what led to all of the oil future contracts being bought up. By low sell high.. obviously.Lotta_Drool wrote:
price didn't go up until 2000, why not show the cost per barrel over those years in relation to your chart?
Because the US will leave Iraq?Kmarion wrote:
So why has it come down nearly 45 dollars?
How is that making any sense? Iraq is stabilizing, oil production is up, and Iraqi revenues are predicted to be high. I can show you what happened the exact day prices started to fall if you want.sergeriver wrote:
Because the US will leave Iraq?Kmarion wrote:
So why has it come down nearly 45 dollars?
