mr.hrundi
Wurstwassereis
+68|6857|Germany
I've read a lot about "what can we do to stop Russia" and "Europe didn't accuse Russia enough" and similar topics after Russia invaded Georgia. I'd now like to explain the attitude to the whole story from the sight of an European.

First of all I've noticed a difference between what the American and what the European (in my case, German) media wrote about the Russian-Georgian conflict. In the american media it seemed that Russia was the only aggressor and Gerorgia was the victim. The European media said different things: Georgia sent troops, supported by the thought that the US stands behind them, into south ossetia. Now Russia felt the need to defend this area, where the people seem to sympathize with Russia. After that they proceeded further into Georgian territory, which was wrong. As you can see, in this case both partys have responsibility for the conflict, it was the fault of both. This is probably the first reason why Europe holds still.

The second, and probably major reason, is (at least for Germany) that we have a lot of trading going on with the Russians. We get a lot of our oil and gas from Russia and many European companys build factorys there and sell their products there. Neither side has any interests in destroying these contracts because of this conflict.

I think that for many people from the US Europe is still the great ally and in terms of economy, traditions and western values. This opinion is no longer correct. It still is left from times of the cold war. But when the wall in berlin fell, Europe began to develop by itself. In my opinion there are no longer "The West" and "The East", now there are 4 or 5 major powers on this world which all have their own interests. Everyone is just trying to get the best for himself. Europe has too many interests in Russia to accuse them.

The last reason is in my opinion, that after the last cold war we just don't want another. When I read this thread it seemed to me that America woudn't have anything against a new cold war or that it already started. I can understand that. Russia is once again threatening your position as superpower and you have two oceans and several thousand miles to russia on either side of your country. Europe on the other side does not want a new cold war. It would once again be the battlegrounds for the two sides. We never were a superpower, so we don't fear to loose any status and we know what it means to have the tanks, planes and nukes of two enemys in our countrys.

I hope all that made sense. Always when I try to write about politics I realize that my English isn't as good as I want it to be. If anything is unclear, feel free to ask. This also was written from a German. If I insulted any other Europeans because what I wrote does not apply to every other European country (which I'm sure is the case), I'm sorry for that.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7095|Canberra, AUS
Good post. It was common knowledge that during the last 20 years-or-so of the Cold War, if war ever broke out between the two superpowers, it was Europe that would take the hits.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|7066
TBH it's a little annoying to see Bush and co. so quick to defend Georgia. I don't care if they are an ally, what they did was stupid.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7041|London, England
Yup. The same reason we have to be cosy with Russia is the same reason the US has to be cosy with Saudi Arabia.
Mint Sauce
Frighteningly average
+780|6706|eng
Yeah.

Has anyone seen in the paper this morning what a Russian Army General said?

"Poland is making itself a target for attack. Such targets are destroyed as a first priority."
#rekt
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7182

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

Yup. The same reason we have to be cosy with Russia is the same reason the US has to be cosy with Saudi Arabia.
its a s simple as that tbh.

also, nobody knows what really happened yet.  even the sources at janes stop short of blaming one side or the other.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6825|North Carolina

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

Yup. The same reason we have to be cosy with Russia is the same reason the US has to be cosy with Saudi Arabia.
Which is exactly why America must distance itself from Saudi Arabia and China.  Russia is your shady trading partner, ours are the 2 I mentioned.

The world would be a much better place if the U.S. was mostly oil self-sufficient and Europe was less dependent on Russia and more self-sufficient.  America also needs to shift trade away from China somewhat and diversify with other countries like India and Indonesia more.

It's a very bad thing to be so dependent on the unethical regimes of Saudi Arabia, China, and Russia.  We should spent more time watching them and less time trading with them.  None of them can be trusted.  Also, Pakistan is a country we are friends with only because we're trying hard to get rid of the Taliban.  We can't really trust them either, but I guess we don't have much of a choice there.

If Europe truly does tie its fate to Russia, it's going to pay a very high price in the long run having to look the other way whenever Russia does something crazy.

The same is true with America being so tied to Saudi Arabia and China.  These are not the kind of governments you want as friends.
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6920|so randum
IIRC a majority of EU countries get a vast supply of oil + gas from Russia.

we'd be crippled if they closed the tubes, so we gotta act nice and all.


hence the no actual finger-pointing from the key powers in Europe.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
jord
Member
+2,382|7098|The North, beyond the wall.

Turquoise wrote:

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

Yup. The same reason we have to be cosy with Russia is the same reason the US has to be cosy with Saudi Arabia.
Which is exactly why America must distance itself from Saudi Arabia and China.  Russia is your shady trading partner, ours are the 2 I mentioned.

The world would be a much better place if the U.S. was mostly oil self-sufficient and Europe was less dependent on Russia and more self-sufficient.  America also needs to shift trade away from China somewhat and diversify with other countries like India and Indonesia more.

It's a very bad thing to be so dependent on the unethical regimes of Saudi Arabia, China, and Russia.  We should spent more time watching them and less time trading with them.  None of them can be trusted.  Also, Pakistan is a country we are friends with only because we're trying hard to get rid of the Taliban.  We can't really trust them either, but I guess we don't have much of a choice there.

If Europe truly does tie its fate to Russia, it's going to pay a very high price in the long run having to look the other way whenever Russia does something crazy.

The same is true with America being so tied to Saudi Arabia and China.  These are not the kind of governments you want as friends.
These "unethical" countries make shit cheaer. If you wanna buy shit for twice as much there are probably no china parts companies...
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6825|North Carolina
They're cheap, but so are things made in India, Indonesia, and so many other countries that can make the same stuff China does.  Each one has their own unethical problems, but it's better to diversify than to remain dependent mostly on one country.  Surely, you can agree with me on that when you look at the heavy influence Russia has on your country's energy needs.
jord
Member
+2,382|7098|The North, beyond the wall.

Turquoise wrote:

They're cheap, but so are things made in India, Indonesia, and so many other countries that can make the same stuff China does.  Each one has their own unethical problems, but it's better to diversify than to remain dependent mostly on one country.  Surely, you can agree with me on that when you look at the heavy influence Russia has on your country's energy needs.
Not really, globalisation and all that. I don't really care where we get it from. If where getting it from Russia it's because they're doing it at a better price than one of those neutral, never does anything wrong countries.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6825|North Carolina

jord wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

They're cheap, but so are things made in India, Indonesia, and so many other countries that can make the same stuff China does.  Each one has their own unethical problems, but it's better to diversify than to remain dependent mostly on one country.  Surely, you can agree with me on that when you look at the heavy influence Russia has on your country's energy needs.
Not really, globalisation and all that. I don't really care where we get it from. If where getting it from Russia it's because they're doing it at a better price than one of those neutral, never does anything wrong countries.
Well, I'm now in the ironic position of being an American advocating more conscientious consumption.  I think I'll bow out from here because I can hear the laughing already....  lol...
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6710|Éire

jord wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

They're cheap, but so are things made in India, Indonesia, and so many other countries that can make the same stuff China does.  Each one has their own unethical problems, but it's better to diversify than to remain dependent mostly on one country.  Surely, you can agree with me on that when you look at the heavy influence Russia has on your country's energy needs.
Not really, globalisation and all that. I don't really care where we get it from. If where getting it from Russia it's because they're doing it at a better price than one of those neutral, never does anything wrong countries.
Everyone's a hypocrite when it comes to money and resources. Even Israel have been known to buy Iranian oil!
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7021|132 and Bush

Lock the doors.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6949|Global Command
I don't think the American media down played the stupidity of georgia at all, it's more that the stupidity of Russsias response and our empty threats were a distraction.


As soon as it happened I said to myself " stupid jerks, now Russia is going to kick their ass, and how. "

They were obviously wrong. Russia is obviously making a point.
JahManRed
wank
+646|7048|IRELAND

The region had 2 referendums, both were for separation from Georgia. I haven't seen that reported on any News stations.

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2025 Jeff Minard