BF2S Forums Ukraine added to Moscow's nuclear hitlist?

.Sup wrote:

Is that a Cossack on the picture? Ukraine needs to enter EU, fast.

Chechnyan Soldier About to Pray
A Chechnyan soldier prepares to pray while Russian forces shell Grozny. A tree behind him has caught fire.
Image:           © Peter Turnley/CORBIS
Collection:           Turnley
Standard RM
Photographer:           Peter Turnley
Date Photographed:           1995
Location Information:           Grozny, Chechnya, Russia

<3 Corbis

There is no missile system that could realistically shield the West from the Russian nuclear arsenal, it's just not possible. Except if they got some laser technology or something.. pew pew

ATG wrote:

If the U.S. feels threatened enough by missiles and soviet bombers in Cuba to threaten nuclear war should we be surprised when Russia feels threatened enough by NATO to do the same?

Why is it so hard to see that by allowing surrounding countries into a mutual defense pact we are antagonizing the Soviets?

Nato is a problem.

A lot of people seem to have difficulty appreciating the Russians point of view on this...I'm not talking about agreeing with their point of view, just appreciating it.

Braddock wrote:

BALTINS wrote:

There is no missile system that could realistically shield the West from the Russian nuclear arsenal, it's just not possible. Except if they got some laser technology or something.. pew pew

I've seen a few articles arguing that their is no guarantee that the thing is going to work effectively at all.

So what's the Russian point of view then? What I actually wonder is, if this is supposed to protect Europe, why isn't all of Europe or at least the Union into the whole thing?

ATG wrote:

If the U.S. feels threatened enough by missiles and soviet bombers in Cuba to threaten nuclear war should we be surprised when Russia feels threatened enough by NATO to do the same?

Why is it so hard to see that by allowing surrounding countries into a mutual defense pact we are antagonizing the Soviets?

Nato is a problem.

I hate to say it, but this is true.  We should politely decline the Ukraine's offer.

.Sup wrote:

On another note: I think Poland should be expelled from EU if they are going to build missile silos there. They are clearly provoking Russians and it will involve the whole EU if the Russians do get provoked which sounds likely.

The EU isn't a military alliance, not to mention that would mean the end of NATO.

.Sup wrote:

On another note: I think Poland should be expelled from EU if they are going to build missile silos there. They are clearly provoking Russians and it will involve the whole EU if the Russians do get provoked which sounds likely.

I'm not sure if you are talking about the topic or another instance. This topic is talking about two satellite tracking stations. No missile silos are involved. It was the Russians who annulled a previous (1992) agreement with Ukraine. Ukraine is essentially saying "fine we will find protection elsewhere".

Commie Killer wrote:

Im amazed how people talk about how Mr JihadJacket in Iran wont launch nukes, and then go back and say the US will. Talk about irony.

Very true...  their bias is pretty transparent.

.Sup wrote:

BALTINS wrote:

.Sup wrote:

On another note: I think Poland should be expelled from EU if they are going to build missile silos there. They are clearly provoking Russians and it will involve the whole EU if the Russians do get provoked which sounds likely.

The EU isn't a military alliance, not to mention that would mean the end of NATO.

I know but if one of EU's country would get attacked the whole of EU will be involved too.

Well if Poland gets attacked it's more of NATO thing, EU doesn't have to give a shit.

.Sup wrote:

BALTINS wrote:

.Sup wrote:

I know but if one of EU's country would get attacked the whole of EU will be involved too.

Well if Poland gets attacked it's more of NATO thing, EU doesn't have to give a shit.

It is one of its countries. I know we have NATO for this but I don't believe it will just spectate and do nothing.

The majority of EU nations is in the NATO anyways, there is only like Sweden, Austria and Ireland outside.

Commie Killer wrote:

Are you fucking kidding me? Building a defensive installation is now provoking the Russians? Gimme a break, this shield wouldnt even knock down 1% of the missiles the Russians are capable of throwing at us. Not to mention I especially love how everyone is acting like this is gonna cause a nuclear war.

The provocative factor is the location i.e. right on the border of Russia. If the US had been acting in a peace-loving manner lately then one could maybe argue that the Russians really had nothing to worry about but the US has been incredibly aggressive in the last ten years, launching major operations in both Iraq and Afghanistan, launching limited operations within Somalia and engaging in a lot of saber rattling with Iran. How on earth are the Russians supposed to know what these missile sites will ultimately be capable of when they're complete? Assurances? Apparently assurances don't count for anything when it comes to the threat of weapons (see Iran or Iraq).

Commie Killer wrote:

What is it with everyones love of living under a mushroom cloud anyways? Getting rid of these weapons will not cause more wars, and will keep us safe from some major fuck up where missiles could be accidentally launched. The program should be expanded, by all sides, to remove the threat these weapons have over everyone.

You were saying 5 seconds ago that this missile shield was going to be pretty much useless: "this shield wouldn't even knock down 1% of the missiles the Russians are capable of throwing at us".

Commie Killer wrote:

Im amazed how people talk about how Mr JihadJacket in Iran wont launch nukes, and then go back and say the US will. Talk about irony.

I don't think anyone is claiming the US are champing at the bit to fire nukes, what people are saying is that the US's new missile shield plans are endangering the existing system of mutually assured destruction. You have to ask yourself how happy the Americans would be if Russia started setting up missile shield systems in Canada and Mexico.

Last edited by Braddock (2008-08-17 11:37:05)

Braddock wrote:

The provocative factor is the location i.e. right on the border of Russia. If the US had been acting in a peace-loving manner lately then one could maybe argue that the Russians really had nothing to worry about but the US has been incredibly aggressive in the last ten years, launching major operations in both Iraq and Afghanistan, launching limited operations within Somalia and engaging in a lot of saber rattling with Iran. How on earth are the Russians supposed to know what these missile sites will ultimately be capable of when they're complete? Assurances? Apparently assurances don't count for anything when it comes to the threat of weapons (see Iran or Iraq).

Common sense should be enough, though what you said could be turned around, it is the Russians who are threatening to re-target their nukes(officially at least, it has probably already been done).

While I dont agree with the Iraq War, Afghanistan was retaliation for attacks committed against us, and Somalia was a UN Sanctioned mission, not to mention that Iran is supplying the insurgents we are fighting.

Braddock wrote:

You were saying 5 seconds ago that this missile shield was going to be pretty much useless: "this shield wouldn't even knock down 1% of the missiles the Russians are capable of throwing at us".

I did say that, and when I was talking about I said this "The program should be expanded, by all sides, to remove the threat these weapons have over everyone."

Braddock wrote:

I don't think anyone is claiming the US are champing at the bit to fire nukes, what people are saying is that the US's new missile shield plans are endangering the existing system of mutually assured destruction. You have to ask yourself how happy the Americans would be if Russia started setting up missile shield systems in Canada and Mexico.

I for one would be glad, maybe it would teach us that we need to expand our shield as well. These weapons need to be made obsolete, it should of been done 50 years ago but it wasn't, so we need to do it now.

Last edited by Commie Killer (2008-08-17 11:49:05)