BF2S Forums China Quaught Queating at Olympquics, dey dink dey are soo Quever.

Poseidon wrote:

jord wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

It's like extreme nationalism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingoism

Don't bullshit me, Jord. I've been on here long enough to see the "who would win US Marines or SAS" threads in which both sides came out fighting equally.

That thread was a reply to the American made "Who would win, The entire British army of 1776 or 100 Us marines". We never, ever start it. We just call you up on it.

Anyway you just keep posting you youtube clip of flags and jets then...

Yes, I remember that thread quite clearly. And I honestly don't think any harm/jingoism was involved in the creation of it. It was an honest question - what would win, incredibly superior technology or 400x manpower?

Then the offspring thread was created because a Brit was pissed that we dare talk shit about the British army. When actually it wasn't intended to do so and actually wasn't at all.

Don't try to deny that your country has your fair share of ignorant extreme-patriots, just like we do.

And by the way, the "America, Fuck Yeah" video is 1) based off the movie Team America World Police which actually makes fun of the US's jingoism/extreme patriotism. And it was made by two Americans. Trey Parker and Matt Stone. 2) almost every single time used as a joke.

I made the thread and I actually wasn't pissed in any way. I made that thread when I was sober.

Uzique wrote:

The British aren't really a patriotic people anymore; we've lost our national identity and a great bunch of our national pride (if 'ole Britannia even was something to be 'proud' of). So you can't really even put the British people on the same level as American nutjobs when it comes to a blind worship of a flag... there has never been anything nearly as bad as the American deep South in the UK. Even the BNP look like simple Neocons in the American political system. You really need to hush up until you actually come to this country and realise that there is no sense of national pride of 'identity' anymore- none of our politicians hammer on about such patriotic ideals in their public speeches, America is simply in a different league.

By the way Poseidon you did misunderstand what .Sup said in the very first place. He acknowledged that "China cheats, woo go China!"- or something to that effect. There was no need to go off on a huge tangent and delve into what he has said in other threads (in jest and good humour). His argument is that he still supports the Chinese athletes regardless of the politics and 'forced' doping that their coaches make them partake in. No country is an innocent and 'pure' contender in the Olympics; each and every one of us has histories of disqualified or shamed athletes, - so just support who you want and go with it.

"Why so serious?".

I'm talking about when it comes to these forums, mainly. And of course it's not as bad there as it is here...we've got just a bit more people than you.

And yes, the south is horrific. I still see confederate flags when I go down there. Just saw one when I was down there 2 weeks ago (florida), actually.

You? Accusing me of going off on a huge tangent?

I was just stating how hypocritical it is to bash the US for something that they don't do and then support the Chinese who do much worse/are probably going to be stripped of their gold if the IOC does an investigation into the athlete's ages.

Uzique wrote:

The entire US relay team were stripped of their golds... the USA does is too, you are not exempt.

Myself wrote:

"No country is an innocent and 'pure' contender in the Olympics; each and every one of us has histories of disqualified or shamed athletes, - so just support who you want and go with it.

And seriously, please come to the UK before you talk about jingoism. It really isn't down to the fact that you have 'more people'- that's such a bad leap in logic. It's simply because our political parties have different attitudes and different goals to yours, our culture is now vastly different in terms of public opinion, and we simply don't care for the patriotic bullshit that seems to result in nothing but trouble anymore.

You're missing the entire point of what I'm saying. If you're going to not root for one team because of what they do, don't root for another country if they do the same thing but worse.

Then come to NY before you talk about it. The south is like a whole different country (and almost was). The only time NY was truly patriotic beyond belief was the months after 9/11. And you know what, I'm damn proud of that.

Poseidon wrote:

Uzique wrote:

The entire US relay team were stripped of their golds... the USA does is too, you are not exempt.

Myself wrote:

"No country is an innocent and 'pure' contender in the Olympics; each and every one of us has histories of disqualified or shamed athletes, - so just support who you want and go with it.

And seriously, please come to the UK before you talk about jingoism. It really isn't down to the fact that you have 'more people'- that's such a bad leap in logic. It's simply because our political parties have different attitudes and different goals to yours, our culture is now vastly different in terms of public opinion, and we simply don't care for the patriotic bullshit that seems to result in nothing but trouble anymore.

You're missing the entire point of what I'm saying. If you're going to not root for one team because of what they do, don't root for another country if they do the same thing but worse.

Then come to NY before you talk about it. The south is like a whole different country (and almost was). The only time NY was truly patriotic beyond belief was the months after 9/11. And you know what, I'm damn proud of that.

And there's the differance. You're proud that New York was patriotic when it got bombed. The only flags waving here were on coffins when London got attacked.

Last edited by jord (2008-08-19 09:32:48)

Jord totally nailed the comparison.

When we were attacked (seeing as that was NY's most patriotic moment)- no one turned it into a patriot parade over here. We were quiet, downfallen, and most of all we just got the fuck on with it and let the politicians do their speaking and what not. There wasn't mass upset and crying in the streets- there was no flagwaving and cheering our politicians/mayors in the months following the attacks... we just have an entirely different attitude to you Yanks. And really if we were attacked on a 9/11 scale we still wouldn't have widespread patriotism or a call to arms like you Americans did. Why is that idea so hard for your narrowminded brain to take onboard? We are not a patriotic people. It's possible to have a modest and quiet national pride without needing to wave flags, shout a lot and start several wars on small undefendable countries.

And I'm not choosing to support China exclusively because Americans cheat. There is no hypocrisy in my choice of favourite-nation. I don't want America to win because a vast majority of your athletes are arrogant jock-types; they show no humility or real decency whether they win Gold or whether they take a Bronze- they always seem very disrespectful and rude in comparison to other countries. China has won lots of Golds and I never see their athletes being so over-the-top in celebration in comparison. But I guess your reasoning for that is because they're all basically mine-slaves to the totalitarian system and have no joy or happiness in their lives whatsoever .

Last edited by Uzique (2008-08-19 09:42:16)

Uzique wrote:

Jord totally nailed the comparison.

When we were attacked (seeing as that was NY's most patriotic moment)- no one turned it into a patriot parade over here. We were quiet, downfallen, and most of all we just got the fuck on with it and let the politicians do their speaking and what not. There wasn't mass upset and crying in the streets- there wasn't flagwaving and cheering our politicians/mayors in the months following the attacks... we just have an entirely different attitude to you Yanks. And really if we were attacked on a 9/11 scale we still wouldn't have widespread patriotism or a call to arms like you Americans did. Why is that idea so hard for your narrowminded brain to take onboard? We are not a patriotic people. It's possible to have a modest and quiet national pride without needing to wave flags, shout a lot and several wars on small undefendable countries.

And I'm not choosing to support China exclusively because Americans cheat. There is no hypocrisy in my choice of favourite-nation. I don't want America to win because a vast majority of your athletes are arrogant jock-types; they show no humility or real decency whether they win Gold or whether they take a Bronze- they always seem very disrespectful and rude in comparison to other countries. China has won lots of Golds and I never see their athletes being so over-the-top in celebration in comparison. But I guess your reasoning for that is because they're all basically mine-slaves to the totalitarian system and have no joy or happiness in their lives whatsoever .

On the scale of 9/11.

You also didn't have two of your biggest icons destroyed. You also didn't have passengers overtake a plane with people who they thought had a bomb and had boxcutters and knives. You also didn't have part of your military headquarters destroyed. You also didn't have to see people jumping from a building to spare themselves from dying of smoke inhalation. Please, don't even try to compare 7/7 to 9/11.

Arrogant jock types? Did you see what Michael Phelps did when he won his 8th gold? First thing he said was "I couldn't have done it without my teammates" or something to the sort. Arrogant jock types. Puh-leeeease.

jord wrote:

Lmao. You really need to read up or come down here and learn about the British culture. Or history for that matter. We were getting bombed when you were still messing about in the cold war.

Northern Ireland, read up on it.

Yes, the attacks from the Irish were totally equivilent to 9/11. Excuse me. The bombings that they committed are not going to spark patriotism. At all.

I can guaran-fucking-tee you that if you got attacked with a nuke by Iran (just hypothetically), Britain would be one of the most patriotic countries on Earth. It's simply human nature. You and Uzique can try and shape it any way you like, but it's simply what  would happen. People are inclined to defend their homeland. If fellow citizens are killed in mass like that, you can bet your ass that there's going to be a lot of patriotism. And support from around the world, as well. Just like people from other countries did with 9/11.

Last edited by Poseidon (2008-08-19 09:48:03)

jord wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Jord totally nailed the comparison.

When we were attacked (seeing as that was NY's most patriotic moment)- no one turned it into a patriot parade over here. We were quiet, downfallen, and most of all we just got the fuck on with it and let the politicians do their speaking and what not. There wasn't mass upset and crying in the streets- there wasn't flagwaving and cheering our politicians/mayors in the months following the attacks... we just have an entirely different attitude to you Yanks. And really if we were attacked on a 9/11 scale we still wouldn't have widespread patriotism or a call to arms like you Americans did. Why is that idea so hard for your narrowminded brain to take onboard? We are not a patriotic people. It's possible to have a modest and quiet national pride without needing to wave flags, shout a lot and several wars on small undefendable countries.

And I'm not choosing to support China exclusively because Americans cheat. There is no hypocrisy in my choice of favourite-nation. I don't want America to win because a vast majority of your athletes are arrogant jock-types; they show no humility or real decency whether they win Gold or whether they take a Bronze- they always seem very disrespectful and rude in comparison to other countries. China has won lots of Golds and I never see their athletes being so over-the-top in celebration in comparison. But I guess your reasoning for that is because they're all basically mine-slaves to the totalitarian system and have no joy or happiness in their lives whatsoever .

On the scale of 9/11.

You also didn't have two of your biggest icons destroyed. You also didn't have passengers overtake a plane with people who they thought had a bomb and had boxcutters and knives. You also didn't have part of your military headquarters destroyed. You also didn't have to see people jumping from a building to spare themselves from dying of smoke inhalation. Please, don't even try to compare 7/7 to 9/11.

Arrogant jock types? Did you see what Michael Phelps did when he won his 8th gold? First thing he said was "I couldn't have done it without my teammates" or something to the sort. Arrogant jock types. Puh-leeeease.

jord wrote:

Lmao. You really need to read up or come down here and learn about the British culture. Or history for that matter. We were getting bombed when you were still messing about in the cold war.

Northern Ireland, read up on it.

Yes, the attacks from the Irish were totally equivilent to 9/11. Excuse me.

They were totally equivalent. 2000 dead and lots more maimed and injured. That's comparable, so don't even try to downplay the IRA attacks. Not that I'm going to start throwing around numbers of people killed to win an argument. We've had more people killed and injured by terrorists, whether you want to respect that or not is up to you.

And we still carried on about our lives.

While I admit that I don't know much about what the IRA has done, I'm not downplaying them. I'm just saying.

Did they destroy two of your biggest icons?

Was it the first time you'd been attacked by a foreign enemy since 1941?

Or any of the other things I said in my response to Uzique? No.

Why do you think the Timothy McVeigh bombing didn't spark patriotism? Give or take it's from a domestic terrorist, but still.

It's not "human nature" to be patriotic, HAHAH! Oh yes we're born with an inherent nature to worship and be full of jest for a bunch of imaginary lines drawn across our continents by politicians and geographers. Are you kidding me? You simply can't take the idea onboard that other countries outside the US don't have such a strong national pride. I'm deadly serious, the United Kingdom seriously does not. If anything we take pride in the fact that our culture nowadays is so multi-faceted and diverse- but none of us would come together in 'true' unison in the style that Americans do in the face of adversity or national crisis. You are indoctrinated from age 5 by your education system which basically places the Constitution and the State on the same pedastal that Chairman Mao was on in Communist China. We aren't indoctrinated... the only forced 'ritual' I had to go through in school was saying a thanks-prayer for my food before lunch! Different worlds my friend, different worlds.

And you can use all the dramatic hyperbole you want for the 9/11 thing. I don't really care much about it; it's got us in a much bigger mess that has cost many more lives than it was even worth. Especially considering the glaring errors your government made on the day (no, I'm not talking conspiracy... I'm talking inadequacy). It was a dark day for the Western world but really my sympathy-meter runs out when thousands of Coalition and British/European troops die for some absolutely laughable cause. Where's Osama? Where are the WMD's? The only 'evidence' being produced as a result of every event since 9/11 is coffins, and a lot of them. So fuck 9/11, if you think a giant travesty like that would invoke patriotism in me then you are very wrong.

Please read my last post, I'm tired of the dramatics around 9/11. It's actually boring to read.

A terrible event, but not a reason for a kneejerk reaction spurred on by blind nationalism/patriotism.

Uzique wrote:

It's not "human nature" to be patriotic, HAHAH! Oh yes we're born with an inherent nature to worship and be full of jest for a bunch of imaginary lines drawn across our continents by politicians and geographers. Are you kidding me? You simply can't take the idea onboard that other countries outside the US don't have such a strong national pride. I'm deadly serious, the United Kingdom seriously does not. If anything we take pride in the fact that our culture nowadays is so multi-faceted and diverse- but none of us would come together in 'true' unison in the style that Americans do in the face of adversity or national crisis. You are indoctrinated from age 5 by your education system which basically places the Constitution and the State on the same pedastal that Chairman Mao was on in Communist China. We aren't indoctrinated... the only forced 'ritual' I had to go through in school was saying a thanks-prayer for my food before lunch! Different worlds my friend, different worlds.

And you can use all the dramatic hyperbole you want for the 9/11 thing. I don't really care much about it; it's got us in a much bigger mess that has cost many more lives than it was even worth. Especially considering the glaring errors your government made on the day (no, I'm not talking conspiracy... I'm talking inadequacy). It was a dark day for the Western world but really my sympathy-meter runs out when thousands of Coalition and British/European troops die for some absolutely laughable cause. Where's Osama? Where are the WMD's? The only 'evidence' being produced as a result of every event since 9/11 is coffins, and a lot of them. So fuck 9/11, if you think a giant travesty like that would invoke patriotism in me then you are very wrong.

Uh, yes. It is. It's not human nature to love your homeland which you've lived in your whole life and want to defend it/support it? That's bullshit. Complete and total bullshit. In every way possible. You can't seriously think that people don't have a natural desire to defend their own country in the time of major crisis, do you? Wow. If Britain got hit by a nuke, you seriously don't think that people are going to go into a call for arms, start flying Union Jack/English flags, call for unity and start calling for the utter destruction of whichever country killed ten's of thousands of their countrymen?

You haven't experienced anything like 9/11 and hopefully you never will. The one unfortunate thing about that is that it will keep you remaining naive.

jord wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

jord wrote:

2 of our biggest icons? No I don't think so. But when that many people were dying in N.Ireland and mainland Britain, the icons wouldn't even rank on my care list really. The people would though.

Like you've admitted not knowing much about the troubles. I'll admit I've never heard of anything about Timothy McVeigh whatsoever.

You need to see things through the eyes of an American, jord. Imagine turning on the TV one day and seeing the two buildings that stand out the most have airliners fly into them. Imagine thinking of the people trapped in there wondering if they're going to make it out of there. Imagine seeing firefighters with the worst look on their faces rushing up with no second thoughts up the stairs to save as many people as they could.

Then imagine the buildings crumbling to the ground.

If that doesn't spark patriotism from someone, I don't know what will.

Yeah I've seen that film with Mel Gibson. It's hard to put myself in a totally different mindset and culture. I've watched documentary's on both the London bombings and 9/11 and don't really see what's so patriotic about building crumbling to he ground. People were trapped in the subways here helping eachother get out, but no sooner had it happened had it become a new news week.

...Mel Gibson? Erm...that was the Patriot and was about the Revolutionary War, jord.

Watch United 93 and World Trade Center. Provides a bit of an insight to why America became so patriotic. I actually think United 93 was the main thing that caused the call to arms.

Last edited by Poseidon (2008-08-19 10:04:57)

Poseidon wrote:

Uzique wrote:

It's not "human nature" to be patriotic, HAHAH! Oh yes we're born with an inherent nature to worship and be full of jest for a bunch of imaginary lines drawn across our continents by politicians and geographers. Are you kidding me? You simply can't take the idea onboard that other countries outside the US don't have such a strong national pride. I'm deadly serious, the United Kingdom seriously does not. If anything we take pride in the fact that our culture nowadays is so multi-faceted and diverse- but none of us would come together in 'true' unison in the style that Americans do in the face of adversity or national crisis. You are indoctrinated from age 5 by your education system which basically places the Constitution and the State on the same pedastal that Chairman Mao was on in Communist China. We aren't indoctrinated... the only forced 'ritual' I had to go through in school was saying a thanks-prayer for my food before lunch! Different worlds my friend, different worlds.

And you can use all the dramatic hyperbole you want for the 9/11 thing. I don't really care much about it; it's got us in a much bigger mess that has cost many more lives than it was even worth. Especially considering the glaring errors your government made on the day (no, I'm not talking conspiracy... I'm talking inadequacy). It was a dark day for the Western world but really my sympathy-meter runs out when thousands of Coalition and British/European troops die for some absolutely laughable cause. Where's Osama? Where are the WMD's? The only 'evidence' being produced as a result of every event since 9/11 is coffins, and a lot of them. So fuck 9/11, if you think a giant travesty like that would invoke patriotism in me then you are very wrong.

Uh, yes. It is. It's not human nature to love your homeland which you've lived in your whole life and want to defend it/support it? That's bullshit. Complete and total bullshit. In every way possible. You can't seriously think that people don't have a natural desire to defend their own country in the time of major crisis, do you? Wow. If Britain got hit by a nuke, you seriously don't think that people are going to go into a call for arms, start flying Union Jack/English flags, call for unity and start calling for the utter destruction of whichever country killed ten's of thousands of their countrymen?

You haven't experienced anything like 9/11 and hopefully you never will. The one unfortunate thing about that is that it will keep you remaining naive.

Stop using 9 /11 like it some sort of argument chip. We've enough terrorist attacks to know how people react. You're speaking to us like parents speak to others. "If you don't have children you don't understand". Only in this case we've had a lot of children and are fully aware of what terrorist attacks can do.

Poseidon wrote:

Uzique wrote:

It's not "human nature" to be patriotic, HAHAH! Oh yes we're born with an inherent nature to worship and be full of jest for a bunch of imaginary lines drawn across our continents by politicians and geographers. Are you kidding me? You simply can't take the idea onboard that other countries outside the US don't have such a strong national pride. I'm deadly serious, the United Kingdom seriously does not. If anything we take pride in the fact that our culture nowadays is so multi-faceted and diverse- but none of us would come together in 'true' unison in the style that Americans do in the face of adversity or national crisis. You are indoctrinated from age 5 by your education system which basically places the Constitution and the State on the same pedastal that Chairman Mao was on in Communist China. We aren't indoctrinated... the only forced 'ritual' I had to go through in school was saying a thanks-prayer for my food before lunch! Different worlds my friend, different worlds.

And you can use all the dramatic hyperbole you want for the 9/11 thing. I don't really care much about it; it's got us in a much bigger mess that has cost many more lives than it was even worth. Especially considering the glaring errors your government made on the day (no, I'm not talking conspiracy... I'm talking inadequacy). It was a dark day for the Western world but really my sympathy-meter runs out when thousands of Coalition and British/European troops die for some absolutely laughable cause. Where's Osama? Where are the WMD's? The only 'evidence' being produced as a result of every event since 9/11 is coffins, and a lot of them. So fuck 9/11, if you think a giant travesty like that would invoke patriotism in me then you are very wrong.

Uh, yes. It is. It's not human nature to love your homeland which you've lived in your whole life and want to defend it/support it? That's bullshit. Complete and total bullshit. In every way possible. You can't seriously think that people don't have a natural desire to defend their own country in the time of major crisis, do you? Wow. If Britain got hit by a nuke, you seriously don't think that people are going to go into a call for arms, start flying Union Jack/English flags, call for unity and start calling for the utter destruction of whichever country killed ten's of thousands of their countrymen?

You haven't experienced anything like 9/11 and hopefully you never will. The one unfortunate thing about that is that it will keep you remaining naive.

jord wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

You need to see things through the eyes of an American, jord. Imagine turning on the TV one day and seeing the two buildings that stand out the most have airliners fly into them. Imagine thinking of the people trapped in there wondering if they're going to make it out of there. Imagine seeing firefighters with the worst look on their faces rushing up with no second thoughts up the stairs to save as many people as they could.

Then imagine the buildings crumbling to the ground.

If that doesn't spark patriotism from someone, I don't know what will.

Yeah I've seen that film with Mel Gibson. It's hard to put myself in a totally different mindset and culture. I've watched documentary's on both the London bombings and 9/11 and don't really see what's so patriotic about building crumbling to he ground. People were trapped in the subways here helping eachother get out, but no sooner had it happened had it become a new news week.

...Mel Gibson? Erm...that was the Patriot and was about the Revolutionary War, jord.

Watch United 93 and World Trade Center. Provides a bit of an insight to why America became so patriotic. I actually think United 93 was the main thing that caused the call to arms.

World trade centre, that's the one I watched. Was it Nicholas Cage? Oh I mixed the 2 up...