BF2S Forums China Quaught Queating at Olympquics, dey dink dey are soo Quever.

Oh no, the loss the $100,000's of dollars worth of endorsements is so terrible in comparison to the Chinese state / coach threats How in-tune are you with reality? People on these Forums talk about how totalitarian and awful Chinese human-rights / living conditions are, but then they equate American financial-endorsement pressures on the same level as China! Haha!

Oh and seeing as your only defense for genocide was that the Balkan ones occurred 'recently', you sort of implied that time was the main element (i.e. it was the only one you cared to mention in your rebuttal/defense).

Uzique wrote:

Oh no, the loss the $100,000's of dollars worth of endorsements is so terrible in comparison to the Chinese state / coach threats How in-tune are you with reality? People on these Forums talk about how totalitarian and awful Chinese human-rights / living conditions are, but then they equate American financial-endorsement pressures on the same level as China! Haha!

Oh and seeing as your only defense for genocide was that the Balkan ones occurred 'recently', you sort of implied that time was the main element (i.e. it was the only one you cared to mention in your rebuttal/defense).

I'm quite in tune with reality, thanks. Enough to not be oblivious enough to think that there's no pressures on American athletes. I'm not equating them, I'm simply saying that there are PLENTY of pressures of being an American athlete.

Have China won yet?

While I agree that China should have repercussions of the events, such as no participation in gymnastics in 2112 maybe.  I don't think those girls should have their medals taken away.  They made it past the inspection, made it thru the qualification, and then just flat out did better in the team finals.  The IOC, and FIG or whatever it is, should be the ones catching the brunt of this, not the girls, who, in the moment of competition, competed and won.

Summary, punish China, and the governing bodies, not the little girls who competed their hearts out.  I believe Kmarion said something similar earlier.

Uzique wrote:

oChaos.Haze wrote:

While I agree that China should have repercussions of the events, such as no participation in gymnastics in 2112 maybe.  I don't think those girls should have their medals taken away.  They made it past the inspection, made it thru the qualification, and then just flat out did better in the team finals.  The IOC, and FIG or whatever it is, should be the ones catching the brunt of this, not the girls, who, in the moment of competition, competed and won.

Summary, punish China, and the governing bodies, not the little girls who competed their hearts out.  I believe Kmarion said something similar earlier.

This sums up why I defend .Sup's decision to support Chinese athletes- because they are actually good sports-people.

This also illuminates my point Poseidon about the difference between an American choosing to cheat (and subsequently lose out of $100,000's of income) and a Chinese athlete being forced to cheat with no real alternative.

+1

Yeah, good athletes. Who are underage. That's what the OP is about.

It's not just about losing out on money. It's about disappointing your country.

Uzique wrote:

Can you not see that 'disappointing' Americans is a bit different from 'failing' the Chinese state? It's an entirely different system, I'm pretty sure the media-humping that a failed American athlete gets seems like a let-off and a light blessing compared to a Chinese athlete that experiences the same fate.

And what does it matter if they're underage? Ok it breaks the 'official rules'- but it shows just what good athletes they are. They still whupped your team despite having less experience, less physical ability and less maturity. That's how I see it at least, I am aware that certain disciplines are easier for people with smaller frames or a lighter weight. It's still a sporting achievement for a young person to perform on that level.

Again - I've multiple times tried to tell you this but it's obviously just not getting through - You said that Americans don't have any pressures. The simple fact is that they DO. THAT is what I'm saying and I don't see what it so hard about understanding that, honestly.

It matters for EXACTLY THAT! It breaks the rules! Of course they're going to be better than a 20 year old - they're smaller due to AGE and more versatile, so therefore it's not fair to the 20 year old.

That's why Shawn Johnson is so good. She's LEGALLY 16 but has a very small frame.

Poseidon wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Can you not see that 'disappointing' Americans is a bit different from 'failing' the Chinese state? It's an entirely different system, I'm pretty sure the media-humping that a failed American athlete gets seems like a let-off and a light blessing compared to a Chinese athlete that experiences the same fate.

And what does it matter if they're underage? Ok it breaks the 'official rules'- but it shows just what good athletes they are. They still whupped your team despite having less experience, less physical ability and less maturity. That's how I see it at least, I am aware that certain disciplines are easier for people with smaller frames or a lighter weight. It's still a sporting achievement for a young person to perform on that level.

Again - I've multiple times tried to tell you this but it's obviously just not getting through - You said that Americans don't have any pressures. The simple fact is that they DO. THAT is what I'm saying and I don't see what it so hard about understanding that, honestly.

It matters for EXACTLY THAT! It breaks the rules! Of course they're going to be better than a 20 year old - they're smaller due to AGE and more versatile, so therefore it's not fair to the 20 year old.

That's why Shawn Johnson is so good. She's LEGALLY 16 but has a very small frame.

iirc it's a fairly common occurrence for female gymnasts to lose a fair amount of their ability once they hit puberty, due to physical changes that reduce flexibility and such
in that case being young is a huge advantage to being not quite so young

How many gold medals have China won in gymnastics, with these gymnasts?

How many medals ahead are China?

How far ahead would China be if these medals went to America?

China didn't need to cheat, but they did. Whats done is done. You can't take a medal off a little child.

After 14 pages, all's I got to say is who cares.  The age limit is stupid.


Oh, and to sum up: Michael Phelps.

oChaos.Haze wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Blehm98 wrote:

iirc it's a fairly common occurrence for female gymnasts to lose a fair amount of their ability once they hit puberty, due to physical changes that reduce flexibility and such
in that case being young is a huge advantage to being not quite so young

That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

Maybe on the uneven bars, and balance beam,and that's a big maybe.  Nastia Liukin goes directly against that theory, and she finished 2nd in both of those.  The olympics themselves have kind of refuted the smaller and younger is better claim.  Besides the Chinese winning team, most events have gone to larger, older athletes.

Women's Vault               Hong Un Jong,     17 5'1"
Women's Floor Exercise  Sandra Izbasa     18 5'5"  (a giant in women's gymnastics terms, lol)
Women's Uneven Bars    He  Kexin            13 probably, lol  4'8" 
Women's All Around        Nastia Liukin       18 5'3"
Women's Balance Beam  Shawn Johnson   16 4'9"

If you ask me, their biggest advantage being younger is that they are more naive and potentially less threatened by pressure and the likes.

No, the fact that Nastia Liukin and Sanda Izbasa won shows that they are is that much better than the Chinese preschoolers children.

Simply put: It's against the rules. China's breaking them. If you don't see that, you're naive (not you, I know you admit they are, just people in general).

Here is a link to the story:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/gymnastics/n … s&cid=

and for some of the people in this forum who said that it is just sour grapes or that nobody said anything until the medals were handed out...here is a quote from the article.

"Questions about the ages of at least three of the athletes on China's team have swirled for months."

Did you get that......MONTHS!!
As I said before...when the practices started more teams started to question the ages and it wasn't coming from just the Americans, the IOC even double checked the passports...which anyone knows is quite useless in this scenario.

I do know that the age limit was raised previously...I do not know why it was raised but it is a rule and all teams should stand by it. If not, then we might as well let all track runners run in other lanes (2 runners eliminated in the 200m men's final for just stepping on the lines), we might as well let the javeline throwers throw at any point....no fouls and we should allow men to play on the women's volleyball and basketball teams. Some people in here think it is fine to bend the rules and so what if China used younger people....hmmm....that is stupid and shows the character of some people in here. The olympics are supposed to be about coming together for sport and sportsmanship, to put aside differences and compete and to have fair play. If you can't handle it and have to cheat, then that person and his/ her coaches are idiots no matter what country they are from.

oChaos.Haze wrote:

DeathBecomesYu wrote:

Here is a link to the story:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/gymnastics/n … s&cid=

and for some of the people in this forum who said that it is just sour grapes or that nobody said anything until the medals were handed out...here is a quote from the article.

"Questions about the ages of at least three of the athletes on China's team have swirled for months."

Did you get that......MONTHS!!
As I said before...when the practices started more teams started to question the ages and it wasn't coming from just the Americans, the IOC even double checked the passports...which anyone knows is quite useless in this scenario.

I do know that the age limit was raised previously...I do not know why it was raised but it is a rule and all teams should stand by it. If not, then we might as well let all track runners run in other lanes (2 runners eliminated in the 200m men's final for just stepping on the lines), we might as well let the javeline throwers throw at any point....no fouls and we should allow men to play on the women's volleyball and basketball teams. Some people in here think it is fine to bend the rules and so what if China used younger people....hmmm....that is stupid and shows the character of some people in here. The olympics are supposed to be about coming together for sport and sportsmanship, to put aside differences and compete and to have fair play. If you can't handle it and have to cheat, then that person and his/ her coaches are idiots no matter what country they are from.

While I have said over and over that I realize they broke the rules, your comparisons are rather lack luster.  Every comparison you drew gains an advantage.  Like I said, China should definitely catch some shit for this, but the little girls who just did what they were told, should be left alone.

My comparisons drew gains of advantage??? No kidding....that was why I made those comparisons. If you think that China did what they did was NOT to gain an advantage then you are naive. Of course they used underage kids to gain an advantage, why else do it? Like I said before, there are countries with younger gymnasts whom I am sure would be competing now if it weren't for the age rule. I read up a little on why the age limit was raised from 14 to 15 and then 15 to 16 in 1997. It was raised because of the risk of serious injury to younger gymnasts. The apparatuses are set up with specific rules and of course younger gymnasts, because of their size put themselves at a higher risk of serious injury....or is that okay just to win a medal?

Bottom line is this and if you read the articles and listen to the actual complaints, no one is asking these kids to give up or lose their medals. They simply don't want this to happen again and want the people in charge to either enforce its own rules or put the age limit back where it was. Simply enforce the rules!! Now, if the decision comes down to these kids losing their medals, then don't be mad at the people who brought up the issue or enforced the rules, the blame should lay at the feet of the perpetrators....the Chinese government!

In these Olympics, as in many past, people have lost their medals because of cheating or even bending the rules (track runners stepping on lines, doped athletes and now I have heard that there are 5 horses in equestrian that have been found doped). The bottom line is that you CANT pick and choose who to punish and when to enforce the rules. If someone is proven to be cheating (these kids know how old they are) then they must stand by the decision of the people enforcing the rules...how hard is that to understand? Sorry, but right is right and wrong is wrong and these kids will have to learn it the hard way. You can't tell me that these kids don't understand what was done and didn't knowingly go along?

It is one thing for countries, in the past, to dope their athletes without their knowledge...as some have claimed. But to change these kids ages so they could gain an advantage or put out a better team is another. They all knew what was going on. These kids have been in the sytem since 3 years old, doing this day in and day out. To be honest, it says a lot about China that they feel they have to do what they did. It is hard for me to believe that they couldn't have fielded a great team with legitimate aged athletes. After all, the talent pool is from 1.3 billion chinese and the training starts as soon as 3 years old with these kids barely having a life outside of these sports. Obviously, they need to find another system because they still felt they had to cheat the rules.

In my opinion, I could care less if the medals or taken away or not.....but the principles should stand and whatever decision is made, the consequences should be accepted. If the IOC or whoever makes the final decision doesn't enforce its own rules then why even have the games, why even have an enforcing body like the IOC. Why even have rules? Everyone going into the olympics knows the rules and knows what could happen if they aren't followed, sorry, even these kids know....so we will see.

Braddock wrote:

Is it me or do the Chinese boxers get a fucking point for just looking at their opponents? Paddy Barnes just got beat 15-0 by his Chinese opponent despite clearly landing several scoring shots over the 4 rounds. Barnes said after the fight that he doesn't contest the fact that he lost but said the judges were disgraceful, he also hinted that he may not accept his bronze medal as a protest.

The same thing has been happening to other boxers against Chinese opponents throughout this tournament and it's just not fair.

The scoring in boxing is a joke. It does nothing but add to the corruption of boxing and its judges. It amazes me that a boxer can score a "0" in a 4 round boxing match....that is laughable and the commentators in America are saying the same thing. Maybe some day something can be figured out that takes the judges out of this, maybe like what fencing has. Who knows but the way it is now just doesnt work and is a total failure. Guys who train and take this kind of risk in boxing to represent their country for the last 4 years deserve better than this.