BF2S Forums Hands Up Who Can Spell "Cold War"

Chrisimo wrote:

Braddock wrote:

You mistake the desires of politicians with the desires of the masses.

It is the will of the masses that elects the politicians. I know that it is not that simple but it has to be taken into account. The masses, like the politicians, like all people, think of themselves first. If the masses in Europe are overall satisfied (read: well fed, good standard of living), they will not really care what happens in the Kosovo. They will be content with what the politicians are doing even if they later criticize it.

Back to the point: No one wants the US to go to war over anything if he/she has a good life. But if things get worse (let's say, an invasion), they will hope that the US will come to help.

Braddock wrote:

I for one am an isolationist and believe that International intervention, if it really must come to that, should be done on a united front through the UN otherwise you end up with rogue nations who go around picking their fights as and when it suits them.

The UN will only act united when none of the interests of the veto members are at stake. If the US wants to act unilaterally, it will do do, like all other veto members. Like all nations who have the power to do so.

Braddock wrote:

The US pick their fights when it suits them and there is almost always a personal gain to be had; that is why Sudan is still a hellhole and why Zimbabwe is still a violent dictatorship while oil-rich Iraq is building their new Government.

Of course. Even when the US helped Germany/Western Europe, it had it's own interests in mind. But back then that wasn't a bad thing. We profited off of it. But when the US goes to war somewhere and it doesn't benefit us, we will criticize the US. Of course we will accept their help again should things get ugly in some way or another.

Or Russia's help depending on which way your bread is buttered, hence cold war.

It's obvious to anyone with common sense how international conflict works...just don't kid yourself that there are any good guys. Criticism is a good thing in politics, it keeps people on their toes.

Europe has more to lose from Russia in terms of resources these days so it makes the situation a little trickier.

Braddock wrote:

It's obvious to anyone with common sense how international conflict works...just don't kid yourself that there are any good guys. Criticism is a good thing in politics, it keeps people on their toes.

If someone does anything good for me, he will be a good guy, even if he did what he did out of self-interest. If Russia invaded us, i would accept US help and even ask for it (if we could not win on our own). At least at the moment.

Braddock wrote:

Countries are selfish like that. In Ireland we never got any help from the US when we fought for our independence from the UK but their recognition of our statehood was an important factor. However, the granting of that recognition might in itself have been a selfish act by those in power in the US, perhaps the incumbent powers wanted to satisfy an Irish lobby or voter bloc but who cares at the end of the day when everyone is happy? Trouble only arises when there are huge differences of opinion on an issue like Vietnam, Cuba, Iraq or Korea.

It probably was motivated by self interest. At least somewhat. If the cost of recognizing statehood was not very high it could even have been a mostly altruistic (or goodwill or whatever) decision. And of course it doesn't mean that you are slaves to the US because of that. But I think that if you are prapared to call for US help (I am speaking of myself ofcourse), then you shouldn't be all that critical if the US does something that doesn't benefit you. Of course that does not mean that you shouldn't be able to criticize the US (I do as well). It just like when I hear phrases like 'The US is just as bad as Russia/the Soviets" that I think that the person who said it would in most cases prefer the US if he had to choose.

Braddock wrote:

Imagine a hypothetical scenario where a majority of your countrymen wanted to embrace communism and were happy to accept a regime change endorsed and assisted by China...I'm sure you would accept US help but what about the majority who want the new regime? I know it's a ludicrous hypothetical but it makes my point that when one side is helped the desires, needs and wishes of another are thrown aside.

Yes, it all depends on what side you are. Lines are often blurred but in most cases you can make a decision. In my case I'm rather on the US side than the Russian side, meaning for example that I would be more inclined to accept US occupation than Russian occupation. Some people will be on the opposite side and that's ok of course. On a global scale there is no good or bad side, it's all personal choice.

rammunition wrote:

i only have praise for Russia. They are standing up for Europe while we all submit to a barbaric murderous beast.

I don't want this defence shield and Russia is the only nation speaking for me, this shield will b used to kill and attack European nations if they don't bend over and face west.

I couldn't help but lol. There's only one side here that's threatening to nuke certain countries, and that's Russia, because those countries are not doing what Russia wants.

But no country does anything if it doesn't entail something for them, why risk your forces for nothing? Hell even the IRA had the agenda of getting back Northern Ireland and that is a form of personal gain.

Braddock wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

rammunition wrote:

i only have praise for Russia. They are standing up for Europe while we all submit to a barbaric murderous beast.

I don't want this defence shield and Russia is the only nation speaking for me, this shield will b used to kill and attack European nations if they don't bend over and face west.

I couldn't help but lol. There's only one side here that's threatening to nuke certain countries, and that's Russia, because those countries are not doing what Russia wants.

But no country does anything if it doesn't entail something for them, why risk your forces for nothing? Hell even the IRA had the agenda of getting back Northern Ireland and that is a form of personal gain.

Russia are no more likely to use nukes than anyone else.

Besides the point, the US makes a threat of bombing a facility used to produce possible weapons grade nuclear material = humungous uproar.

Russia threatens the possibility of nuclear strikes on countries and facilities = brushed aside basically.

Braddock wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Russia are no more likely to use nukes than anyone else.

Besides the point, the US makes a threat of bombing a facility used to produce possible weapons grade nuclear material = humungous uproar.

Russia threatens the possibility of nuclear strikes on countries and facilities = brushed aside basically.

Who brushed them aside?

Do you still see a lot of people bitching about it?

rammunition wrote:

i only have praise for Russia. They are standing up for Europe while we all submit to a barbaric murderous beast.

I don't want this defence shield and Russia is the only nation speaking for me, this shield will b used to kill and attack European nations if they don't bend over and face west.

This is the best post in the thread.  It illustrates in the harshest way how stupid the anti-American crowd is.

Due to this I from now on will demand of my Government to no longer keep forces in Europe or aide Europe militarily in any way.  Not only this but I will one up the Anti-American crowd in stupidity and demand that my government support our ally Russia and not inter fer in ANY way when it comes to military and political actions in Europe ( this of course does not apply to my crooked tooth friends in England ).

Europeans have bitched about America enough that they are starting to get a ground swell of support in America for their point of views that the US should sit back and let what happens, happen. 

Think of all the money that was wasted in Europe in the last century.  Who the hell was the US to demand the USSR tear down the Berlin Wall or air drop supplies to West Germany.  Euro-peons are enlightened, let them reap what they sow, just like after WW1 we should just sit back and watch them fail with their maginal lines, not enforcing treaties, and appeasement to dictators/socialist regimes.  Fuck them and their Lucky Charms.

ahhh, I can't bad mouth Lucky Charms with its marshmellowy goodness. mmmmmmm