BF2S Forums Confessions & Information Obtained Under Duress

Spearhead wrote:

usmarine wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

People get wrongfully convicted all the time

way more right than wrong.  so whats the problem?

Happens way too often, because of laziness.

ok.  doctors kill WAY too many people because of mistakes, where is the media outrage?  where is the protests in the streets?

Last edited by usmarine (2008-08-25 16:17:17)

usmarine wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

usmarine wrote:

way more right than wrong.  so whats the problem?

Happens way too often, because of laziness.

ok.  doctors kill WAY too many people because of mistakes, where is the media outrage?  where is the protests in the streets?

Its called malpractice insurance...millions of $$$'s in hush money makes sad relatives very quiet people.

And just how many US citizens have been picked up on the street for no reason whatsoever and denied due process?

You know, people outside the US are humans too.

I mean, it "actually happens all the time", so I'm sure there are TONS of examples.

There certainly are.

threats against his life (sometimes with guns drawn) = Torture
specific threats against family members = Torture
physical beatings = Torture

usmarine wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

threats against his life (sometimes with guns drawn) = Torture
specific threats against family members = Torture
physical beatings = Torture

bottom one yes.  top two not even close.  man, some of you need to go so up close what a terrorist can do to other human bodies.

Bottom one is torture, top two are inhumane and nefarious behaviour.

They detained him on a hunch-based, circumstantial suspicion and then proceeded to torture him to try and find out if they had the right man. He had nothing to tell them because he was innocent so they used the internment legislation to keep him detained and subject him to prolonged torture - still he had nothing to give. However, the authorities thought he was holding out and so they stepped up the torture techniques (just like ol' Kiefer in 24) and lo and behold he confessed.

As a Brit I have to say:

1. First of all he was a frigging Catholic - I don't need to say any more.
Its not the 'Church of England' for no reason pal, if he chooses to kneel in the mud with the potatoes and worship an anti-god and his bloodthirsty throat-cutting prophet 'Bejaysus' thats up to him - but anything which happens to him he brought on himself.

2. He was guilty. I have it on good authority there was intel that he was a terrorist.
Really he should be thankful we didn't - as we are entitled to do under the Geneva Convention - drop a 2,000lb bomb on him and his family.
I'd say he should be grateful the munificent British found it in their hearts to abduct, torture and fit him up. I mean really he has the RUC to thank for his life so whats all this whining about being tortured? People make mistakes FFS. Do you think Police officers enjoy having racist bigotry rammed down their throats during basic training? I doubt they do, nor  do they need it.

3. He was Irish. Everyone knows everyone in Ireland is either in the IRA, is actively aiding and abetting the IRA - by doing things like sweeping streets and delivering newspapers, or is Irish. QED get with the fucking program Paddy, everyone in Ireland is a terrorist, we both know it.

4. As he was obviously a terrorist and outside the Geneva Convention - proven by him not wearing a uniform or keeping his guns and bombs out in the open where we can see them - he had no right to protection under any law - PACE, UNCHR etc.

5. Just because he was found not guilty on the sneaky legalistic technicality of not having done anything wrong doesn't make him innocent, in fact it makes him more guilty - which is why his house is going to be bulldozed.

Oh yeah, screw you Braddock you're a fag. I bet you'd sleep with Castro if you could.

ROFLMBFHAO

PS You're a fag.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-08-26 06:09:31)

usmarine wrote:

so back to my question.  how do you obtain info in a timely fashion?  not only do you need to break him quickly, then you need time to verify the info.  so please tell how it should be done in order to save lives?  cant wait.

Perhaps better surveillance operations to begin with might not leave you in scenarios where you have to react at the last minute in a 'Kiefer Sutherland 24esque' fashion. How many of these last minute scenarios have their been usmarine? There was a pretty good post made earlier about how special scenarios might require a breaking of the rules but that even in these scenarios it would still be a breaking of the rules. You just seem to want a situation where there are no rules full stop.

Dilbert_X wrote:

so back to my question.  how do you obtain info in a timely fashion?  not only do you need to break him quickly, then you need time to verify the info.  so please tell how it should be done in order to save lives?  cant wait.

Its so unlikely to happen its not worth worrying about.
Life isn't like TV thankfully.
Intelligence work really isn't about running around with pistols and jumping through windows - something your CIA is slowly learning.

in wartime it is like that.

usmarine wrote:

so back to my question.  how do you obtain info in a timely fashion?  not only do you need to break him quickly, then you need time to verify the info.  so please tell how it should be done in order to save lives?  cant wait.

torture, as you said noone willingly gives you information.

Dilbert_X wrote:

so back to my question.  how do you obtain info in a timely fashion?  not only do you need to break him quickly, then you need time to verify the info.  so please tell how it should be done in order to save lives?  cant wait.

Its so unlikely to happen its not worth worrying about.
Life isn't like TV thankfully.
Intelligence work really isn't about running around with pistols and jumping through windows - something your CIA is slowly learning.

ignorant statement of the week award goes to dilbert

GorillaTicTacs wrote:

usmarine wrote:

m3thod wrote:

Conversley they may confess to anything to prevent continued 'duress'...can you place reliance on confessions extracted under duress?

well how else are you going to get info?  you cant pay off everyone.

Interrogation is an art, and believe me, anyone with a fucked up mind enough to do some crazy shit can be cracked without so much as tickling them.  You really have to understand deviant psychology and personality disorders.  Yes, it takes time (hours to weeks), but if they're talking at all you can crack them.  Most sociopaths are very proud of what they do or did, or the opposite, very ashamed of what they do or did...either way they'll talk about it in confessional form or bragging.  Will the info be 100% accurate from a single source, or even the same person over multiple sessions?  No.  That's why you don't shortcut.  Multiple sources.  Multiple checks.  Multiple methods.  You know...real intelligence or investigative work. 

Torture and threats is a practice for half-retarded lazy shit interrogators - hence the brilliant change in policy by our chimp in chief and his friends.  Makes you almost wonder if they really even care about the info they're trying to get eh?

How exactly are you so certain you know more than the U.S. government about extracting information? Another amatuer pychologist I assume.

If torture is in the news then thats all they must do apparently.

God Save the Queen wrote:

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

GorillaTicTacs wrote:

Interrogation is an art, and believe me, anyone with a fucked up mind enough to do some crazy shit can be cracked without so much as tickling them.  You really have to understand deviant psychology and personality disorders.  Yes, it takes time (hours to weeks), but if they're talking at all you can crack them.  Most sociopaths are very proud of what they do or did, or the opposite, very ashamed of what they do or did...either way they'll talk about it in confessional form or bragging.  Will the info be 100% accurate from a single source, or even the same person over multiple sessions?  No.  That's why you don't shortcut.  Multiple sources.  Multiple checks.  Multiple methods.  You know...real intelligence or investigative work. 

Torture and threats is a practice for half-retarded lazy shit interrogators - hence the brilliant change in policy by our chimp in chief and his friends.  Makes you almost wonder if they really even care about the info they're trying to get eh?

How exactly are you so certain you know more than the U.S. government about extracting information? Another amatuer pychologist I assume.

If torture is in the news then thats all they must do apparently.

he knows a lot more about the subject than anyone on here honestly.

We have classes on handling EPWs, that and I have seen Marine Interrogators at work and talked to them, they even say physical torture does yield results.

SgtHeihn wrote:

God Save the Queen wrote:

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

How exactly are you so certain you know more than the U.S. government about extracting information? Another amatuer pychologist I assume.

If torture is in the news then thats all they must do apparently.

he knows a lot more about the subject than anyone on here honestly.

We have classes on handling EPWs, that and I have seen Marine Interrogators at work and talked to them, they even say physical torture does yield results.

I know people who were tortured and can tell you it yields a lot of bullshit too. Innocent people will tell you whatever they think will end the torture and committed freedom fighters/terrorists will simply not talk or give bogus info to give the illusion of cracking (many will simply just not speak because the prospects they face in the event of talking outweigh the consequences of the torture).

Braddock wrote:

I believe it was Tarantino who said that if you torture someone for long enough they'll tell you they started the Chicago fires but it doesn't fucking necessarily make it so.

And what do you say to an innocent person you've accidentally tortured? Sorry?

I'm not talking about picking a random joe up from the street and torturing them into admitting some stuff. I'm talking about war time.

Read the book Bravo Two Zero? if I were on the other end I'd put those wires on their balls and have them talking in seconds. You can't afford to lose time in such a situation and you need all the information you can get.

there's your no rules world.

What can you say to an innocent person you tortured?

I would only allow to torture those of which it's obvious they did something and you need to know something. Torture isn't for yes and no questions it's for detailed information you want to know. If you already know the information and he only needs to say yes, why torture - that is unnessecary.

Disregarding the fact that torture is inhumane but in some situation nessecary.