BF2S Forums Palestinian terror attacks. Maybe they bring it on themselves?

Dilbert_X wrote:

They have many possible approaches - bombing isn't the solution to every problem.

Bombings the only real one that works against terrorist groups

Dilbert_X wrote:

Bombings the only real one that works against terrorist groups

Give us an example of a campaign against a terrorist group won by bombing.

I didn't say you can win by bombing, I said its the most effective method. Give us an example of where talking to a terrorist group made them give up full stop. That includes release of all weapons and explosives.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Wow and you complain about wall of text posts.

I'm not a gambling man, I only bet on dead certs.

Since most of it was quotes of your words to put my response in the proper context...

Dilbert_X wrote:

When it comes to the Palestinians or Arabs in general they are guilty until proven otherwise, and normal laws don't therefore apply so they can be treated however the Israelis or Americans see fit.

Absolutely untrue and unfounded. But whatever makes you feel better.

They aren't subject to US criminal law and they have intentionally removed themselves from GC protected status due to their actions.

Alleged actions. Innocent until proven guilty?

What are you saying here? Random quotes with no context or any point to be made...

If you observe someone shooting another person, it's not alleged that they shot them. They did.
If you capture someone with a suicide vest strapped to their body, it's not alleged that they are a suicide bomber. They are.
If you capture someone in a vehicle full of explosives, it's not alleged that they are a suicide bomber. They are.

Since neither you nor I know the specifics of any one case, neither of us can say what the situation is. If you're going to go on about Gitmo (which is completely unrelated to the OP, BTW), then don't forget the SCOTUS and Congressional findings/direction that has forced a change in policy there.

Dilbert_X wrote:

The problem is that they can't re-evaluate their approach, because they only have one approach available to them if they choose to respond to Hamas or Hezbollah attacks.

They have many possible approaches - bombing isn't the solution to every problem.

Yet it is the only one Hamas or Hezbollah try. Hmmm...

And what other approaches does Israel have to deal with militants who attack its civilians and then hide in the Palestinian population? Do tell.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Go wash the sand out of your vagina, ffs.

When you can't think of anything nice to say you just roll out the insults don't you?

Just wishing you would man up, Alice.

Maybe my "jog bra" is too tight...

Pot. Kettle.

What are you saying here? Random quotes with no context or any point to be made...

I'm talking about people having 2,000lb bombs dropped on them and their families on the basis of secret 'intel'.

If you observe someone shooting another person, it's not alleged that they shot them. They did.

Once again, your 'guilty until proven innocent' argument.
There is your evidence that they did what you say. Until its proven by a properly appointed court its alleged.
Maybe it would be a lot easier if US Police officers didn't need to take people to court, they could just witness crimes occuring and dole out justice on the spot. No need to worry about constitutional rights, lawyers etc. Just jail em or shoot em.

And what other approaches does Israel have to deal with militants who attack its civilians and then hide in the Palestinian population? Do tell.

The militants are the population, they have been radicalised by Israeli actions. To suggest they should separate themselves from themselves is ludicrous.
For starters they could stop stealing yet more Palestinian land, they could build their fence on their own land, they could dismantle the illegal settlements, they could stop blockading Palestinian territories, stop taking water from under Palestine, recognise the elected govt of Palestine, engage in constructive dialogue with Hamas and Hezbollah, make some concessions themselves.

See, plenty of alternatives to bombing, and they might gain some support outside the US, instead of making themselves look worse than Iran.

Yet it is the only one Hamas or Hezbollah try. Hmmm...

But you're claiming the Israelis are better than Hamas and Hezbollah, and its the Palestinians who must make all the concessions.
Now you're saying the only response to bombing is bombing, so really the Israelis are no better - my point from the beginning.

Just wishing you would man up, Alice.

Nope, you're just being a childish jerk, insulting people who disagree with your bigoted position.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-08-27 06:29:58)

Dilbert_X wrote:

MOAB wrote:

I didn't say you can win by bombing, I said its the most effective method.

To be exact you said bombing works.
Please explain, and provide some examples.
If bombing works for 'us' why shouldn't it work for 'them'?

I always found Churchill interesting.
'We ask no favours of the enemy. We seek from them no compunction. On the contrary, if tonight the people of London were asked to cast their votes as to whether a convention should be entered into to stop the bombing of all cities, an overwhelming majority would cry, "No, we will mete out to the Germans the measure, and more than the measure, they have meted out to us.'

Don't we ever learn?

Right, ask this, who is more likely to respond to talking and diplomacy? The Israelis, or Hamas and Hezbollah? One bombs to remove the threat of attacks on civilians, the others bomb civilians more than soldiers and military targets.

Also funny as well, if Churchill hadn't taken that stance, where would we be today I wonder?

Last edited by M.O.A.B (2008-08-27 11:10:27)

SgtHeihn wrote:

Show me a terror campaign stopped by diplomacy alone.

Um

Cuban Missile Crisis????

I'll ask you the same question, show me a terror campaign stopped by military alone?

Last edited by Spearhead (2008-08-27 11:18:19)

Dilbert_X wrote:

If you observe someone shooting another person, it's not alleged that they shot them. They did.

Once again, your 'guilty until proven innocent' argument.
There is your evidence that they did what you say. Until its proven by a properly appointed court its alleged.
Maybe it would be a lot easier if US Police officers didn't need to take people to court, they could just witness crimes occuring and dole out justice on the spot. No need to worry about constitutional rights, lawyers etc. Just jail em or shoot em.

Maybe it would be a lot easier if you would get it through your skull that you don't hold court in a combat situation. You don't cross-examine witnesses ad infinitum before you decide which target to strike. You are confusing civil law proceedings with combat.

Dilbert_X wrote:

And what other approaches does Israel have to deal with militants who attack its civilians and then hide in the Palestinian population? Do tell.

The militants are the population, they have been radicalised by Israeli actions. To suggest they should separate themselves from themselves is ludicrous.
For starters they could stop stealing yet more Palestinian land, they could build their fence on their own land, they could dismantle the illegal settlements, they could stop blockading Palestinian territories, stop taking water from under Palestine, recognise the elected govt of Palestine, engage in constructive dialogue with Hamas and Hezbollah, make some concessions themselves.

See, plenty of alternatives to bombing, and they might gain some support outside the US, instead of making themselves look worse than Iran.

No, the militants aren't the population, no more than the US military is the US population. It is drawn from that population, but is not one and the same. For you to think that every single Palestinian citizen is a militant is ludicrous.

Make concessions themselves? How about releasing 200 prisoners? How about honoring the ceasefire that Hamas doesn't honor? How about those concessions, Einstein? Compared to...absolutely fucking nothing from Hamas. kthxbye

Dilbert_X wrote:

Yet it is the only one Hamas or Hezbollah try. Hmmm...

But you're claiming the Israelis are better than Hamas and Hezbollah, and its the Palestinians who must make all the concessions.
Now you're saying the only response to bombing is bombing, so really the Israelis are no better - my point from the beginning.

I'm not claiming that at all. What I'm claiming is that the strategy used by Hamas and Hezbollah thus far has not bettered the life of the Palestinian people one iota. Yet they continue to do it. "It" being intentionally killing and trying to kill Israeli civilians. So, from that perspective--that Israel doesn't intentionally kill civilians as a matter of doctrine, but Hamas and Hezbollah do--I'd say they are certainly better than those organizations.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Just wishing you would man up, Alice.

Nope, you're just being a childish jerk, insulting people who disagree with your bigoted position.

You're right. It was too much to expect you to man up. I can see how insulting it is to have someone disprove your claim completely (the whole "sic" nonsense). That was so mean of me to be using the term correctly and all.

I'm not insulting you because you disagree with my position (your is easily more bigoted than mine, btw). I'm insulting you because you're a sarcastic jerk who can't have a civil debate on this topic. You can't be objective, you can't even attempt to examine both sides. You are vehemently anti-Israeli (I'm only anti-Hamas/Hezbollah, not anti-Palestinian)--that's certainly a lot closer to the definition of "bigoted" than I am.