palestine recieves more aid from the US than other nation
Interesting post. Kind of makes shite of the previous claims by others that Iran are running the show, if they actually were running the show perhaps they should put their money where their mouth is instead of sending crappy rockets.SgtHeihn wrote:
The US and Europe supply Palestinian with 6 times more aid than their Arab brothers.
From the Washington Post
Out of 22 Arab nations that made pledges, only three -- Algeria, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates -- have contributed funds this year, while oil-rich countries such as Libya, Kuwait and Qatar have sent nothing and still owe the Palestinian government more than $700 million in past-due pledges.
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The Palestinian Authority uses the contributions to help pay salaries for civil servants, health-care specialists and other workers in the Palestinian territories. European governments, the World Bank and the United States have provided more than three times as much money as Arab countries this year to keep the government afloat, but officials said the Europeans and the World Bank have virtually depleted their resources, leaving a funding gap of about $800 million for the rest of 2008.
The situation is deeply frustrating to U.S. and Palestinian officials, especially because the aid spigot appeared to turn off after the collapse of a unity government that had included Hamas, which the United States considers a terrorist organization. The new government is headed by moderate Palestinian leaders who favor peace talks with Israel. After it was formed in June 2007, it received only $73 million from Arab countries in the second half of 2007, compared with $371 million given by the Arabs to the unity government in the first half of the year.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … 00226.html
Kinda funny.
We are supplying both sides of the conflict, because you know a lot of the money we give to the Palestinians is going to weapons.
Here you go. The general idea is that Iran has provided weapons, training and money to Hamas and other groups. Iran has significant influence over the groups as a result.Braddock wrote:
Care to back your claim up with anything?san4 wrote:
Precisely.Braddock wrote:
You are saying that Iran controls things in Palestine/Israel as far as the militant end of the Palestinian struggle goes?
Voice of America wrote:
Israel, Hamas and Iran
08 May 2008
. . . Secretary of State Rice reaffirmed U.S. support for peace between Israelis and Palestinians, a peace that would lead to two democratic states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side. That goal, she said, is under threat from extremists, like Hamas, who have chosen terrorism over politics:
"[P]erhaps of deepest concern, the leaders of Hamas are increasingly serving as the proxy warriors of an Iranian regime that is destabilizing the region, seeking a nuclear capability, and proclaiming its desire to destroy Israel."
http://www.voanews.com/uspolicy/2008-05-08-voa3.cfm
Yossi Klein Halevi wrote:
The New Republic
The Iranian-Israeli War by Yossi Klein Halevi
Post Date Tuesday, March 11, 2008
Immediately after the massacre of eight students in a yeshiva library in Jerusalem last week, speculation began within the Israeli security establishment and the media about who had dispatched the lone murderer. Was it Hamas? Hezbollah? Perhaps a new, unknown organization claiming to act on behalf of the "liberation" of the Galilee? In fact, the speculation was pointless. Regardless of the affiliation of the actual perpetrator, the ultimate responsibility for this attack, as for almost all the terror attacks on Israel in recent years, lies with Iran. . . .
According to a former chief of Israeli military intelligence, Arafat promised the Iranians that he would turn Gaza into a second southern Lebanon, and Iran began providing weapons and funds to Arafat's Fatah. But then, in January 2002, Israel intercepted the Karine A, a ship carrying Iranian-supplied Katyusha rockets and mortars and C-4 explosives for use in suicide bombings. Exposed and under international pressure, Arafat severed the connection. . . .
Iran has trained hundreds of Hamas operatives--and, according to the former intelligence chief, continues to fund individual members of Fatah's Al Aqsa Brigades. Iran's goal is twofold: to extend its influence in the Arab world, and to transform itself, via proxies, into a frontline confrontation state with Israel.
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html? … 1fabeddb3e
RadioFreeEurope wrote:
Middle East: Iran Unlikely To Prod Hamas Toward Moderation
By Bill Samii
. . . There is a full-time Hamas representative in Tehran -- Abu-Osama Abd-al-Moti, who was preceded by Abu-Muhammad Mustafa. Moreover, Hamas leaders and their Iranian counterparts interact quite openly. Political bureau chief Khalid Mishaal met President Mahmud Ahmadinejad in Damascus in mid-January and in Tehran in December. Mishaal met Ahmadinejad's predecessor, Mohammad Khatami, on several occasions. They met in Damascus in May 1999 and May 2003, and again in Tehran in September 2000, April 2001, and June 2002. . . .
Lower-level Iranian officials also meet with Hamas representatives with some frequency. In October 2000, for example, Tehran Radio reported, Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi met with Abu Marzuk, as well as with representatives of the PIJ and other rejectionist groups.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ … ferl03.htm
Haaretz wrote:
Israel worried Hamas and Iran developing strategic relations
By Amos Harel and Avi Issacharoff, Haaretz Correspondents
Members of the Israeli defense establishment are concerned by the close ties that seem to be developing between Iran and Hamas. . . .
The close ties between the Hamas-led government and Tehran are also manifesting themselves in the links between the Iranian leadership and the group's political bureau, based in Damascus and headed by Khaled Meshal. Iran is actively contributing funds to boost these ties, and recently committed $250 million, which unlike previous grants will constitute a regular transfer to cover various PA expenses. . . .
"These gifts are not free," Israeli security sources told Haaretz. "The Iranians are expecting returns: a rise in influence among the Palestinians and Hamas compliance to their orders." . . .
Defense establishment assessments do not exclude the possibility of Iran pressuring Hamas to renew terrorist activities.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/800871.html
Times Online wrote:
From The Sunday Times
March 9, 2008
Hamas wages Iran’s proxy war on Israel
A Hamas leader admits hundreds of his fighters have travelled to Tehran
Marie Colvin in Gaza City
. . . The Hamas commander, however, confirmed for the first time that the Iranian Revolutionary Guard has been training its men in Tehran for more than two years and is currently honing the skills of 150 fighters.
The details he gave suggested that, if anything, Shin Bet has underestimated the extent of Iran’s influence on Hamas’s increasingly sophisticated tactics and weaponry.
Speaking on the record but withholding his identity as a target of Israeli forces, the commander, who has a sparse moustache and oiled black hair, said Hamas had been sending fighters to Iran for training in both field tactics and weapons technology since Israeli troops pulled out of the Gaza strip of Palestinian territory in 2005. Others go to Syria for more basic training. . . .
The most promising members of each group stay longer for an advanced course and return as trainers themselves, he said.
So far, 150 members of Qassam have passed through training in Tehran, where they study for between 45 days and six months at a closed military base under the command of the elite Revolutionary Guard force. . . . According to the commander, a further 650 Hamas fighters have trained in Syria under instructors who learnt their techniques in Iran. Sixty-two are in Syria now. . . .
The commander was particularly impressed with advances made using Iranian technology. “One of the things that has been helpful is that they have taught us how to use the most ordinary things we have here and make them into explosives,” he said.
Such technology had been most useful of all in developing the Qassam rocket and mines deployed against Israeli tanks.
Hamas had just developed the Shawas 4, a new generation of mine, with Iranian expertise, he added.
“We send our best brains to Tehran. It would be a waste of money to send them and then have them come back with nothing.” . . .
The conflict is further complicated by the role of Iran which, by supporting Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza, has created two potential fronts for Israel. If Israel’s military is occupied with an internal threat, its reasoning goes, Olmert will be loath to mount the attack Tehran fears on its nuclear programme.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 512014.ece
Jerusalem Post wrote:
Arab paper: Iran to give Hamas more arms, funds
May. 25, 2008
JPost.com Staff
Iran has promised Hamas new rockets and more funds, an expression of the Islamic Republic's displeasure with recent news of renewed Israeli-Syrian peace talks, the London-based newspaper, Asharq Alawsat reported on Sunday.
According to the report, Syria-based Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal, who held a press conference in Teheran with Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki Saturday, expressed his concern over statements issued simultaneously by Jerusalem, Damascus and Ankara last Wednesday in which a renewal of talks between Syria and Israel under Turkish mediation was declared. . . .
An Iranian source told the paper that in light of Mashaal's fears, Iranian regime officials promised the head of Hamas's political bureau that Iran would continue supporting Hamas financially, materially and morally, even if Syria would turn its back on the organization for the sake of an agreement with Israel.
According to the source, the Iranians had even elaborated what that support would be: Newer, upgraded rockets and an increase in the budget allotted to Hamas to $150 million in the second half of 2008.
A source in the office of Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said Mashaal was promised that Iran would supply every support his organization might need, be it weapons, finance, or military training.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? … 2FShowFull
Haaretz wrote:
Last update - 16:25 24/06/2007
PA intelligence chief: Iran aided Hamas in takeover of Gaza Strip
By News Agencies
Palestinian intelligence chief Tawfiq Tirawi on Sunday accused Iran of close involvement in Hamas' violent takeover of Gaza, saying Tehran funded the Islamic militants and trained hundreds of them.
Tirawi said the battle for Gaza earlier this month had been carefully orchestrated and was a joint program with Iran. . . .
On Saturday, Hamas hardliner Mahmoud Zahar was quoted as telling German news magazine Der Spiegelthat he had personally carried $42 million in cash from Iran across the Gaza-Egypt border. . . .
Iranian Deputy Foreign Minister Mohammad Rida Bakery, . . . who arrived in Syria on Friday, held talks Saturday with a number of Damascus-based Palestinians, including Hamas political leader Khaled Meshal, and Abbas' personal envoy, Abbas Zaki.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/874410.html
The New York Times wrote:
March 6, 2007
Israeli Says Iran Is Training Hamas Men
By STEVEN ERLANGER
TEL AVIV, March 5 — The chief of Shin Bet, the Israeli internal security service, said Monday that the Islamic movement Hamas had sent dozens of men from Gaza to Iran for military training.
“We know that Hamas has started to dispatch people to Iran, tens, and a promise of hundreds,” the intelligence chief, Yuval Diskin, told a small group of correspondents here in a rare on-the-record briefing. . .
The international isolation of Hamas and an embargo on direct financial aid to the Palestinian Authority it runs has convinced Hamas that it cannot rule alone without any international legitimacy, Mr. Diskin said. “But it also drove Hamas toward Iran,” he said, adding, “One of the bad fruits of the isolation of Hamas is the influence of Iran and its money.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/06/world … deast.html
Let's see how long this lasts. Fair enough, it is a step in the right direction, but there are too many steps made without return.
Iran has way too much power in the middle east - the US' occupation of Iraq didn't help with that either. It basically tipped the power Saddam had onto the Iranians.
I really hate how Palestine is treated by its "ME-buddies". Everyone seems to use them as an excuse to hate Israel, whilst not giving a shit how their country is going to hell. Iran uses them to build more power and vent aggression
-kon
Iran has way too much power in the middle east - the US' occupation of Iraq didn't help with that either. It basically tipped the power Saddam had onto the Iranians.
I really hate how Palestine is treated by its "ME-buddies". Everyone seems to use them as an excuse to hate Israel, whilst not giving a shit how their country is going to hell. Iran uses them to build more power and vent aggression
-kon
saddam had ZERO leverage on iran since 1991konfusion wrote:
It basically tipped the power Saddam had onto the Iranians.
no sir. we only give money to the zionists. k thxGod Save the Queen wrote:
palestine recieves more aid from the US than other nation
Your news links just prove that Iran give a large amount of funding and support to the Palestinian cause, we knew that already. To take the leap and say that Iran are controlling the whole show is pure conjecture, your logic would dictate that the US control Israel when in fact it seems Israel do whatever they please (and, if Ariel Sharon's attitude is anything to go by, many Israelis would believe they in fact control the US and not the other way around). The Palestinians are a proud and distinct people, they would be a puppet for Iran about as quick as they'd be a puppet for the US. Sure they will take all the weapons and funding they are offered from supposed allies but I sincerely doubt they'd let their cause be hijacked by any outside party... influenced possibly but not controlled.san4 wrote:
Here you go. The general idea is that Iran has provided weapons, training and money to Hamas and other groups. Iran has significant influence over the groups as a result.Braddock wrote:
Care to back your claim up with anything?san4 wrote:
Precisely.
...links, links, links etc.
Yes, it is conjecture, but it has a basis in reality.Braddock wrote:
Your news links just prove that Iran give a large amount of funding and support to the Palestinian cause, we knew that already. To take the leap and say that Iran are controlling the whole show is pure conjecture, your logic would dictate that the US control Israel when in fact it seems Israel do whatever they please (and, if Ariel Sharon's attitude is anything to go by, many Israelis would believe they in fact control the US and not the other way around). The Palestinians are a proud and distinct people, they would be a puppet for Iran about as quick as they'd be a puppet for the US. Sure they will take all the weapons and funding they are offered from supposed allies but I sincerely doubt they'd let their cause be hijacked by any outside party... influenced possibly but not controlled.san4 wrote:
Here you go. The general idea is that Iran has provided weapons, training and money to Hamas and other groups. Iran has significant influence over the groups as a result.Braddock wrote:
Care to back your claim up with anything?
...links, links, links etc.
The extensive training that Iran provides is what distinguishes its support for Hamas from US support for Israel. Iran can train Hamas members to carry out the sorts of operations Iran wants them to engage in. I.e., violent operations. Iran doesn't have to give Hamas direct orders if it has given Hamas a certain skill set. I don't think Iran is training Hamas in advanced negotiating techniques. The US has not transformed Israel the way Iran has transformed Hamas.
To put it another way, Iranian weapons and training will only help Hamas kill more people. No one in their right mind thinks that helps the Palestinian cause. Prolonging the violent conflict creates more death and misery for Palestinians and makes Israel clamp down harder. This helps Iran by weakening and distracting Israel.
In any case, providing weapons, money and training is likely to give Iran influence. It would be politically difficult for the US to cut off aid to Israel, but Iran could drop Hamas in a second. That threat has to give Iran at least some power over the group. I'm sure a number of Hamas leaders are getting rich off their membership in the organization that controls Gaza, and Iran could weaken that control by cutting off aid. Along similar lines, Iran provided money, weapons and training to Hezbollah in Lebanon and few dispute Iran's tremendous influence over that organization. Finally, for what it's worth, the US and Israeli governments both believe Iran has significant influence over Hamas.
So no, it's not an airtight case, and Iran's control over Hamas is unlikely to be complete, but there is some logical and factual support for the idea and the alternative--that Iran provides training, weapons and millions of dollars of cash but has no influence at all--is highly counterintuitive.
Yeah, on the other hand the power that Saddam did have, now went to Iran. Iran is the winner of the Iraq fucking war.usmarine wrote:
saddam had ZERO leverage on iran since 1991konfusion wrote:
It basically tipped the power Saddam had onto the Iranians.
-kon
It would have been so much easier and efficient for the USA to 'employ' Iran to invade Iraq anyway. If it wasn't for all of the ulterior motives of the federal government, the invasion would have been a far better success in terms of actual war and liberation. The Iranians would do a far better job of integrating the majority of Shiite's into power and influence and giving the Iraqi people true power from Saddam. Instead they have an American taskforce that they're all already highly-suspicious of doing the liberating with only interests to set-up a base of operations and a resource-fortress in the Middle East.konfusion wrote:
Yeah, on the other hand the power that Saddam did have, now went to Iran. Iran is the winner of the Iraq fucking war.usmarine wrote:
saddam had ZERO leverage on iran since 1991konfusion wrote:
It basically tipped the power Saddam had onto the Iranians.
-kon
Last edited by Uzique (2008-09-04 12:20:48)
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/