Transport choppers since 1.2

2006-03-06 13:20:23

#1

donpost: Member; +8|7211

In patch 1.2, the effectiveness of the guns of the Blackhawk has been severely reduced. I have heard that this is due to the rounds no longer being explosive.

Clearly, this was done to bring the Blackhawk into line with the MEC and PLA equivalent, but am I alone in thinking that instead of "nerfing" (I hate that word) the BH, wouldn't it have been better to upgrade the MEC/PLA choppers?

I know that pre-1.2 it was frustrating having instant death rained from the skies on maps like Mashtur and Songua, but now, even with a well organised squad, the Blackhawk is only useful as basic transport. The guns are almost useless.

Now I know a lot of you are going to say "the BH should only be used for transport, that's what it's there for!", but wouldn't it be more FUN if, with a well organised squad, could make the BH (and the MEC/PLA choppers) useful as troop support?

I'm not asking for a return to the days of BH whoring, I just think that things were taken a bit too far in reducing the abilities of the BH. Perhaps a solution would be to restore the BH's guns, but keep it's armour reduced. The MEC/PLA choppers could be given more armour to keep things balanced.

Opinions please

*DISCLAIMER* I searched for "Blackhawk" before making this post, so no flames if this is a repeat post, just redirect me *DISCLAIMER*

2006-03-06 13:23:48

#2

jjrp02: Member; +18|7097|Baton Rouge, LA, USA

I used to LOVE getting a whole squad into a BH, the pilot and one gunner would medic, the other gunner would be support, two engies and a spec ops in the back....

it was points heaven

and now it is gone

2006-03-06 13:24:03

#3

Torin: Member; +52|7142

Yeah, they nerfed it hard. Transport only now. This is good and bad, but mostly bad. Even with uber powerful guns of 1.12, it was still easily shot down by a Humvee or Vodnik, or run into with the MI-8. There was always a counter to the Blackhawk available.

Now, it's only worthwhile as transport.

They are however still good for base raping an enemy carrier with, you don't even need to fly them!

2006-03-06 14:36:28

#4

Spearhead: Gulf coast redneck hippy; +731|7140|Tampa Bay Florida

I agree, they should find some other guns other than the 50 cals for the MEC and PLA choppers to make them more effective. On certain maps like Mashtuur, it seems that Dice put those choppers in primarily for air support, not for transport. Kinda like a Black Hawk Down thing.

Last edited by Spearhead (2006-03-06 14:39:19)

2006-03-06 14:47:16

#5

Flecco: iPod is broken.; +1,048|7115|NT, like Mick Dundee

Why not just stick the explosive miniguns on all three, it is fictional so who cares about "its not realistic"... The AA isn't realistic either... It would work, give them back some of thier armour too because they had just the right amount before. Engineers in the BH repairing is against EA's "Rules of Engagement" which is stupidty considering how long it takes to get repair points...

Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.

2006-03-06 15:07:38

#6

cheshiremoe: Evil Geniuses for a sparsely populated tomorrow; +50|7159

Flecco wrote:
Why not just stick the explosive miniguns on all three, it is fictional so who cares about "its not realistic"... The AA isn't realistic either... It would work, give them back some of thier armour too because they had just the right amount before. Engineers in the BH repairing is against EA's "Rules of Engagement" which is stupidty considering how long it takes to get repair points...

My understanding of the ROE was that it is OK if you fix the BH in flight as long as you are engaging in battle and not sitting off at the edge of the map and using it to stat pad. You can throw granades out the the back and give your team mate support points, but if you are not throwing them at anyone (just spamming them) then it is stat padding.

If I am wrong please find an offical source to clarify. As I play Enginer alot and while trying to get to the Island on wake I would repair till it was neccasary to jump out. Its hard enough to get off the essex. But then again I hardly get in the BH because it is a death trap now.

2006-03-06 15:20:05

#7

BUDFORCE: Moderator Emeritus; +76|7222|London UK

All I can say is, the old blackhawk whoring days were damn fun.

Im glad a got a chance to expirience it.

2006-03-06 16:28:23

#8

War Man: Australians are hermaphrodites.; +564|7164|Purplicious Wisconsin

How about this for the MEC and PLA choppers http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl22-e.htm, it would balance the game if the explosive shells of the blackhawk came back and that the AGS-30 was for the chinese and middle eastern coalition, thta would balance it otherwise instead of a minigun without explosive shells, use the 50 cal, by the way spearhead the mgs the mec and pla choppers use are pkms.

Last edited by War Man (2006-03-06 16:40:55)

The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.

2006-03-06 16:40:35

#9

War Man: Australians are hermaphrodites.; +564|7164|Purplicious Wisconsin

Just found this gun http://world.guns.ru/grenade/gl25-e.htm and I think that if the Americans will use the explosive shell miniguns the chinese chopper should use this while MEC use the ags 30.

The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.

2006-03-06 16:44:42

#10

airborne916: Member; +24|7115

see all they did is screw over that BH. They make AA god like but when the chopper trys to defend it self THATS WHY THE DAMN GUNS ARE THERE) and the chopper cant or when the chopper is getting shot by a damn 5cal it can defend it because it just got fucked over by dice.

Last edited by airborne916 (2006-03-06 16:47:06)

2006-03-06 16:47:26

#11

=SA=VaSSiLi: Member; +2|7221

The only chopper I ever use now is the MEC or Chinese one, because they have the seats on the back. A couple friends of mine go in the back and drop C4 as I hover over enemy tanks and squads. Since Im resupplying them and getting Driver Kill Assists, I get massive points.

2006-03-06 16:59:26

#12

Havazn: Member; +39|7144|van.ca

donpost wrote:
Now I know a lot of you are going to say "the BH should only be used for transport, that's what it's there for!", but wouldn't it be more FUN if, with a well organised squad, could make the BH (and the MEC/PLA choppers) useful as troop support?

Why dont we just upgrade every weapon so that when we press the space bar once, it kills everything on the map as long as we arent trying to be realistic.

The guns on the blackhawk are for defense only. Not for flying into a battle and mowing troops down. Any gun with a cyclic rate that this minigun has would not have the accuracy as portrayed in the game. It can still kill, just not with noob ease like it had before.

2006-03-06 17:14:53

#13

CackNBallz: Member; +45|7193|Toronto, Canada

What I think they should have done is have the Blackhawk keep the explosive rounds, give the MEC and PLA choppers equivalent weapons. Here is the crucial change, make them have limited ammo and they would have to go to the helipad to resupply. If they made seperate ammo counts for each gun then it would encourage the pilot to use both sides more often instead of just their favourite gunning side and that gunner having unlimited ammo.

Much like support not being able to resupply the attack choppers while inside the choppers, the transport choppers would be forced to either return to base or have the support guy throw a bag out to the ground and have the pilot land for a second to pick up the bag.

2006-03-06 17:20:59

#14

blademaster: I'm moving to Brazil; +2,075|7095

bh whoring is fun

2006-03-07 07:18:46

#15

donpost: Member; +8|7211

CackNBallz wrote:
What I think they should have done is have the Blackhawk keep the explosive rounds, give the MEC and PLA choppers equivalent weapons. Here is the crucial change, make them have limited ammo and they would have to go to the helipad to resupply. If they made seperate ammo counts for each gun then it would encourage the pilot to use both sides more often instead of just their favourite gunning side and that gunner having unlimited ammo.

Much like support not being able to resupply the attack choppers while inside the choppers, the transport choppers would be forced to either return to base or have the support guy throw a bag out to the ground and have the pilot land for a second to pick up the bag.

That's exactly the kind of solution I'm getting at. If only EA would do this...

2006-03-07 10:06:42

#16

Rumfuddle: Member; +14|7168

Can you still repair a hellie as engineer from the inside? I tried this the other night and it didn't seem to be working. If you can't, that would be my only beef. On balance, I prefer the nerfed BH. Sure it was a point gold mine, but it was like having a C-130 gunship on certain maps.

2006-03-07 10:59:30

#17

Wasder: Resident Emo Hater; +139|7125|Moscow, Russia

I got my first gold medal in the BlackHawk.. That was sweet

2006-03-07 11:04:14

#18

starkingdoms: Member; +6|7221

jjrp02 wrote:
I used to LOVE getting a whole squad into a BH, the pilot and one gunner would medic, the other gunner would be support, two engies and a spec ops in the back....

it was points heaven

and now it is gone

but it sucked being on the other team....

2006-03-07 11:06:57

#19

starkingdoms: Member; +6|7221

Rumfuddle wrote:
Can you still repair a hellie as engineer from the inside? I tried this the other night and it didn't seem to be working. If you can't, that would be my only beef. On balance, I prefer the nerfed BH. Sure it was a point gold mine, but it was like having a C-130 gunship on certain maps.

i've noticed with more than 1 engineer the process slows down

anybody else get this?

2006-03-08 15:57:33

#20

BangStick_ky: Member; +0|7141

I once scored 103 points as a BH pilot on Mashtur. Not a single kill and only 3 deaths.

........and now those days are gone. I try to avoid riding the the BH now.

Last edited by BangStick_ky (2006-03-08 15:59:52)

2006-03-08 16:02:55

#21

GeneralDodo: Member; +5|7146

donpost wrote:
I know that pre-1.2 it was frustrating having instant death rained from the skies on maps like Mashtur and Songua, but now, even with a well organised squad, the Blackhawk is only useful as basic transport. The guns are almost useless.

Maybe because its main use is actually basic transport? Whoever said it was a combat helicopter? Not satisfied grab a combat chopper.

2006-03-08 16:17:17

#22

donpost: Member; +8|7211

GeneralDodo wrote:
donpost wrote:
I know that pre-1.2 it was frustrating having instant death rained from the skies on maps like Mashtur and Songua, but now, even with a well organised squad, the Blackhawk is only useful as basic transport. The guns are almost useless.
Maybe because its main use is actually basic transport? Whoever said it was a combat helicopter? Not satisfied grab a combat chopper.

If they arenot meant for combat at all why do they have guns? You can say defense, but against what? Ground troops in the landing zone? So the guns are there for shooting back only at people who shoot at you?

The ability to use transport choppers offensively (when manned by a group of people working well together, not just any bunch of non-communicating random people) adds an extra dimension to the game. With less armour and better AA, they wouldn't be invinciible with explosive rounds. It would just take teamwork to take it down. So if one side uses teamwork in the blackhawk, they can do well, but if the other side uses teamwork too, the effect is cancelled.

We should reward teamwork in BF2 in as many ways as possible, as playing as a team makes the game so much more fun, and that's what its about.

Last edited by donpost (2006-03-08 16:17:59)

2006-03-08 16:24:15

#23

dondon: Member; +3|7166

The transports are still useful for killing stuff! All you need is some C4 and a noob tank driver.

The BH was overpowered in 1.12. It required no idea of how to aim the gun. That's not to say it wasn't fun to pwn the MEC on Mashtur, though. Reducing the spread of the explosion while giving some sort of explosive round to the MEC/Chinese choppers would have worked much better than turning the BH into an easy 6 kills.

2006-03-08 16:29:15

#24

e-i-u-benjamin: WoeKoeMakaLaLaLoekieWaWa; +40|7209|The Netherlands

the BlackHawk used to be soo much fun, its just BullShit now. why should it be an only transport heli?
i think if u have a good squad, u have the right for some Major points (i think teamwork shut make points)
dont u?

2006-03-09 08:53:52

#25

delta_III: Member; +4|7076|Carrollton, Tx

Man the black hawk sucks ass now! Nobody even wants to get in it anymore. The fact that the mini guns are basically useless now is really annoying. A gun with that high of a rate of fire should be able to mow down enemies , and it did till this patch screwed everything up. I like the idea of having limited ammo, as this would make it more realisitic and prevent massive blackhawk whoring, but to make the guns totally useless..... ? WTF? The blackhawks used to be cool , now they are basically a flying bus .

This is an outrage!!!!!!!!

BF2S Forums Transport choppers since 1.2

Flecco wrote:

donpost wrote:

CackNBallz wrote:

jjrp02 wrote:

Rumfuddle wrote:

donpost wrote:

GeneralDodo wrote:

donpost wrote:

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