| Yes | 40% | 40% - 17 | ||||
| No | 59% | 59% - 25 | ||||
| Total: 42 | ||||||
So, if you wanted to fight a war, you wouldn't have problems people joining Georgia's military? They're getting along very well with the US, and they don't seem to be lacking conflict.War Man wrote:
Hey, if an Irish person wants to join another military because his country's military doesn't get into any real conflict then that's okay. I don't find it unpatriotic unless the country he is joining does not get along well with his.
quite.. however this debate is about sworn allegiance. You cannot be a citizen of a Republic and swear allegiance to a Monarchy you should be made forfeit your citizenship of the Republic for treason (see definition)War Man wrote:
Hey, if an Irish person wants to join another military because his country's military doesn't get into any real conflict then that's okay. I don't find it unpatriotic unless the country he is joining does not get along well with his.
Republic -allegiance, in political terms, the tie that binds an individual to another individual or institution. The term usually refers to a person's legal obligation of obedience to a government in return for the protection of that government, although it may have reference to any institution that one is bound to support. In the United States allegiance is required of both citizens and resident aliens. In ordinary speech, the term may include supplemental emotional ties that make it loosely synonymous with loyalty.
Individuals develop allegiances to social groups, such as family, school, club, and religion, through processes of socialization; recent scholars have examined the connection of these more intimate processes to the maintenance or shift of political allegiances. Political scientists distinguish between natural allegiance, which arises from membership by birth within a political society; express allegiance, which arises from an oath or promise to support a political society, usually resulting from naturalization; local allegiance, in which an alien pledges temporary allegiance to a government for the protection it offers; and legal allegiance, which arises in certain cases from an oath taken to support a government temporarily, as when a foreign soldier joins its armed forces.
Under European laws a people did not have the right to change allegiance without consent of their governments. In 1868 the United States declared that it was the right of any citizen to voluntarily transfer allegiance to another government. Great Britain provided the same opportunity for its subjects in 1870, and thereafter other European states followed similar policies. The process of expatriation, however, is by no means universal.
Monarchy -republic [Lat. res publica,=public affair], today understood to be a sovereign state ruled by representatives of a widely inclusive electorate. The term republic formerly denoted a form of government that was both free from hereditary or monarchical rule and had popular control of the state and a conception of public welfare. It is in this sense that we speak of the ancient Roman republic. Today, in addition to the above characteristics, a republic is a state in which all segments of society are enfranchised and in which the state's power is constitutionally limited. Traditionally a republic is distinguished from a true democracy in that the republic operates through a representative assembly chosen by the citizenry, while in a democracy the populace participates directly in governmental affairs. In actual practice, however, most modern representative governments are closer to a republic than a democracy. The United States is an example of a federal republic, in which the powers of the central government are limited and the component parts of the nation, the states, exercise some measure of home rule. France is an example of a centralized republic, in which the component parts have more limited powers. The USSR, though in theory a grouping of federated republics and autonomous regions, was in fact a centralized republic until its breakup in 1991.
See F. Hermens, The Representative Republic (1958) and Introduction to Modern Politics (1959).
this has nothing to do with Nationality per se.6 dictionary results for: Monarchy
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
mon·ar·chy /ˈmɒnərki/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mon-er-kee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -chies. 1. a state or nation in which the supreme power is actually or nominally lodged in a monarch. Compare absolute monarchy, limited monarchy.
2. supreme power or sovereignty held by a single person.
Same with the OlympicsLotta_Drool wrote:
Why would someone not serve in their own countries army vs fighting for another country? I see it as betraying one's country.
US don't lack conflict either so I will join them if you don't mind.Spark wrote:
So, if you wanted to fight a war, you wouldn't have problems people joining Georgia's military? They're getting along very well with the US, and they don't seem to be lacking conflict.War Man wrote:
Hey, if an Irish person wants to join another military because his country's military doesn't get into any real conflict then that's okay. I don't find it unpatriotic unless the country he is joining does not get along well with his.
Well those are your laws so oh well. Oh and to the asshole who gave me karma, I am not a tool fucktard.IG-Calibre wrote:
quite.. however this debate is about sworn allegiance. You cannot be a citizen of a Republic and swear allegiance to a Monarchy you should be made forfeit your citizenship of the Republic for treason (see definition)War Man wrote:
Hey, if an Irish person wants to join another military because his country's military doesn't get into any real conflict then that's okay. I don't find it unpatriotic unless the country he is joining does not get along well with his.Republic -allegiance, in political terms, the tie that binds an individual to another individual or institution. The term usually refers to a person's legal obligation of obedience to a government in return for the protection of that government, although it may have reference to any institution that one is bound to support. In the United States allegiance is required of both citizens and resident aliens. In ordinary speech, the term may include supplemental emotional ties that make it loosely synonymous with loyalty.
Individuals develop allegiances to social groups, such as family, school, club, and religion, through processes of socialization; recent scholars have examined the connection of these more intimate processes to the maintenance or shift of political allegiances. Political scientists distinguish between natural allegiance, which arises from membership by birth within a political society; express allegiance, which arises from an oath or promise to support a political society, usually resulting from naturalization; local allegiance, in which an alien pledges temporary allegiance to a government for the protection it offers; and legal allegiance, which arises in certain cases from an oath taken to support a government temporarily, as when a foreign soldier joins its armed forces.
Under European laws a people did not have the right to change allegiance without consent of their governments. In 1868 the United States declared that it was the right of any citizen to voluntarily transfer allegiance to another government. Great Britain provided the same opportunity for its subjects in 1870, and thereafter other European states followed similar policies. The process of expatriation, however, is by no means universal.Monarchy -republic [Lat. res publica,=public affair], today understood to be a sovereign state ruled by representatives of a widely inclusive electorate. The term republic formerly denoted a form of government that was both free from hereditary or monarchical rule and had popular control of the state and a conception of public welfare. It is in this sense that we speak of the ancient Roman republic. Today, in addition to the above characteristics, a republic is a state in which all segments of society are enfranchised and in which the state's power is constitutionally limited. Traditionally a republic is distinguished from a true democracy in that the republic operates through a representative assembly chosen by the citizenry, while in a democracy the populace participates directly in governmental affairs. In actual practice, however, most modern representative governments are closer to a republic than a democracy. The United States is an example of a federal republic, in which the powers of the central government are limited and the component parts of the nation, the states, exercise some measure of home rule. France is an example of a centralized republic, in which the component parts have more limited powers. The USSR, though in theory a grouping of federated republics and autonomous regions, was in fact a centralized republic until its breakup in 1991.
See F. Hermens, The Representative Republic (1958) and Introduction to Modern Politics (1959).this has nothing to do with Nationality per se.6 dictionary results for: Monarchy
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
mon·ar·chy /ˈmɒnərki/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mon-er-kee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -chies. 1. a state or nation in which the supreme power is actually or nominally lodged in a monarch. Compare absolute monarchy, limited monarchy.
2. supreme power or sovereignty held by a single person.
You can't be a mercenary in the British Armed forces, it's a nation's military. You've come up with a fair few little dictionary quotes, why don't you go ahead and put "mercenary" in.IG-Calibre wrote:
again it's not really a question of Nationality per se. rather an issue of can a citizen of a Republic swear an oath of allegiance to a Monarch and remain a citizen? I say not, it's an impossibility, treason. They relinquish their right to citizenship. With regard to the Foreign Legion I would of thought it would certainly be more palatable to join for an "Irish patriot" if all they want is to satisfy their blood lust rather than being a mercenary in the British crown forces. My Great uncles fought with the Canadians in the second world war rather than join the British crown forces..
Last edited by jord (2008-09-07 17:28:30)
imo.. A person from the "Republic" who is supposedly an "Irish Patriot" who joins a foreign Monarchs army to satisfy their personal Blood lust is a mercenary. A - they are not performing a patriotic duty. B- If they were they would join their own Countries military = therefore they are in fact mercenaries. so STFUjord wrote:
You can't be a mercenary in the British Armed forces, it's a nation's military. You've come up with a fair few little dictionary quotes, why don't you go ahead and put "mercenary" in.IG-Calibre wrote:
again it's not really a question of Nationality per se. rather an issue of can a citizen of a Republic swear an oath of allegiance to a Monarch and remain a citizen? I say not, it's an impossibility, treason. They relinquish their right to citizenship. With regard to the Foreign Legion I would of thought it would certainly be more palatable to join for an "Irish patriot" if all they want is to satisfy their blood lust rather than being a mercenary in the British crown forces. My Great uncles fought with the Canadians in the second world war rather than join the British crown forces..
I understand you come from a family that hates Britain, I understand it. It's okay. You might keep a bit more credibility than labelling a country's standing military as mercenaries because you don't like said country.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
mer·ce·nar·y Audio Help /ˈmɜrsəˌnɛri/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mur-suh-ner-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, noun, plural -nar·ies.
–adjective 1. working or acting merely for money or other reward; venal.
2. hired to serve in a foreign army, guerrilla organization, etc.
–noun 3. a professional soldier hired to serve in a foreign army.
4. any hireling.
Last edited by IG-Calibre (2008-09-08 02:25:07)
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/3425/Rise-i … 4456355.jpYesterday, soldiers from as far away as Cork, Limerick and Dublin took an oath of allegiance to the Queen and signed up for 12 years’ service.
This is like an American joining the Taliban.War Man wrote:
I don't find it unpatriotic unless the country he is joining does not get along well with his.
Or a member of the Taliban joining forces with the CIA...CameronPoe wrote:
This is like an American joining the Taliban.War Man wrote:
I don't find it unpatriotic unless the country he is joining does not get along well with his.
I cannot sanction such a desired outcome as I wouldn't wish death on any human. Denial of the joy of an Irish passport / citizenship removal from the Irish nation would be punishment enough for me, let them be doomed to travel with a crown branded on their passports for the rest of their life, the property of her/his Majesty, let them be subjected, cowed on bended knee, bowed head, broken.CameronPoe wrote:
No loss to us - hope they get creamed out in Afghanistan.
God Save the Queen wrote:
monarchies are serious business
Wow Cam, wow.CameronPoe wrote:
No loss to us - hope they get creamed out in Afghanistan.
Why? plenty view treason as punishable by death, infact I believe that you still can be punished by death in the UK for hi treason? - most days I drive by a bridge where one of the United Irishmen from the rebellion against the crown were hanged..jord wrote:
Wow Cam, wow.CameronPoe wrote:
No loss to us - hope they get creamed out in Afghanistan.
Like you I can't sanction death or wish it upon someone because they joined a foreign military. When Braddock wished private contractors tortured to death, I wouldn't want that either.IG-Calibre wrote:
Why? plenty view treason as punishable by death, infact I believe that you still can be punished by death in the UK for hi treason? - most days I drive by a bridge where one of the United Irishmen from the rebellion against the crown were hanged..jord wrote:
Wow Cam, wow.CameronPoe wrote:
No loss to us - hope they get creamed out in Afghanistan.
Aren't the Gurkhas effectively mercenaries?You can't be a mercenary in the British Armed forces, it's a nation's military.
That's a unique one. Though not really, it's the same as any commonwealth citizen joining the British Army, but they have their own elite regiment.Dilbert_X wrote:
Aren't the Gurkhas effectively mercenaries?You can't be a mercenary in the British Armed forces, it's a nation's military.
