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2008-09-11 13:00:02
imortal
Member
+240|7084|Austin, TX
This is not another thread about predestination vs, free will.

My question is about happiness, contentment, and brain washing. 

If a person is happy, sedate, at peace, and content with life, does it matter how it occurs?  If a person is a part of some radical cult, and happy doing it, does it matter if they were brain-washed into it or chose it on their own, as long as they are happy?  Or does the happiness have to take place within the confines of what society considers the norm?  If so, who gets to decide what is right or not?

I do not have any answers on this one; I am conflicted about the morality of forcing someone back into "mainstream" society.  What are your opinions?
2008-09-11 13:01:14
mtb0minime
minimember
+2,418|7074

Ignorance is bliss
2008-09-11 13:06:44
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|7040|London, England
If a person is happy being what they are in their cult/religion it's fine by me. It's when they over step their boundaries and try to impose their "happiness" on others is when problems arise.

And it doesn't help the fact that alot of cults/religions tend to make the fact that one isn't truly happy until they've converted as many people as possible and shit.
2008-09-11 13:07:30
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7155|Salt Lake City

If it didn't come of their own choosing, it's not real.  It's a facade.
2008-09-11 13:13:21
imortal
Member
+240|7084|Austin, TX

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

If it didn't come of their own choosing, it's not real.  It's a facade.
Yes, but if they are happy now, does it matter?  Take your average angst-ridden teenager, moping through life, looking for some meaning.  Some cult member happens upon them, and draws them it, and converts the teen against their will.  If he is happy and content once the procedure is complete, aren't they better off than when they were miserable of "their own choosing?"

Is HOW they got theat way more important than the actual happiness?
2008-09-11 13:21:18
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7155|Salt Lake City

imortal wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

If it didn't come of their own choosing, it's not real.  It's a facade.
Yes, but if they are happy now, does it matter?  Take your average angst-ridden teenager, moping through life, looking for some meaning.  Some cult member happens upon them, and draws them it, and converts the teen against their will.  If he is happy and content once the procedure is complete, aren't they better off than when they were miserable of "their own choosing?"

Is HOW they got theat way more important than the actual happiness?
My point is that they aren't truly happy, they only think they are.
2008-09-11 13:21:38
chittydog
less busy
+586|7254|Kubra, Damn it!

A small minority of people are happiest when they're causing others pain. Jeffrey Dahmer was pretty happy snacking on people's faces. But morality is a different topic. I'd say as long as someone is truly happy and they're not hurting anyone else, then it's okay to be happy, regardless of how they got there. I think someone who was brainwashed into something, like a cult, could never really be happy.

On the other hand, even if it did not come of their own choosing, they could still be happy if it's not something extreme. A guy I work with is a mountain biking maniac. He wasn't interested in going until a few other guys practically forced him to go. Now he loves it. It's not really the same thing as the OP mentioned, but it's in the same vein. Happiness can't be forced on you, but you can be forced into trying something that makes you happy that you may not have done on your own.
2008-09-11 13:22:57
imortal
Member
+240|7084|Austin, TX

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

imortal wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

If it didn't come of their own choosing, it's not real.  It's a facade.
Yes, but if they are happy now, does it matter?  Take your average angst-ridden teenager, moping through life, looking for some meaning.  Some cult member happens upon them, and draws them it, and converts the teen against their will.  If he is happy and content once the procedure is complete, aren't they better off than when they were miserable of "their own choosing?"

Is HOW they got theat way more important than the actual happiness?
My point is that they aren't truly happy, they only think they are.
ummmm, isn't the whole definition of being happy "thinking that you are happy?"  If you 'only' think you are happy, then you are happy.  How does really enter into it?

Oh, and if your happy life is a lie, would you prefer to be happy with a lie, or miserable with the truth?
2008-09-11 13:24:41
chittydog
less busy
+586|7254|Kubra, Damn it!

imortal wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

imortal wrote:


Yes, but if they are happy now, does it matter?  Take your average angst-ridden teenager, moping through life, looking for some meaning.  Some cult member happens upon them, and draws them it, and converts the teen against their will.  If he is happy and content once the procedure is complete, aren't they better off than when they were miserable of "their own choosing?"

Is HOW they got theat way more important than the actual happiness?
My point is that they aren't truly happy, they only think they are.
ummmm, isn't the whole definition of being happy "thinking that you are happy?"  If you 'only' think you are happy, then you are happy.  How does really enter into it?

Oh, and if your happy life is a lie, would you prefer to be happy with a lie, or miserable with the truth?
Thinking you're happy isn't the same as being happy. Just like thinking you're cool isn't the same as being cool.
2008-09-11 13:28:09
imortal
Member
+240|7084|Austin, TX

chittydog wrote:

imortal wrote:

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:


My point is that they aren't truly happy, they only think they are.
ummmm, isn't the whole definition of being happy "thinking that you are happy?"  If you 'only' think you are happy, then you are happy.  How does really enter into it?

Oh, and if your happy life is a lie, would you prefer to be happy with a lie, or miserable with the truth?
Thinking you're happy isn't the same as being happy. Just like thinking you're cool isn't the same as being cool.
No, being cool relies on the judgement of someone outside yourself.  Happiness is all internal.
2008-09-11 13:34:16
chittydog
less busy
+586|7254|Kubra, Damn it!

imortal wrote:

chittydog wrote:

imortal wrote:


ummmm, isn't the whole definition of being happy "thinking that you are happy?"  If you 'only' think you are happy, then you are happy.  How does really enter into it?

Oh, and if your happy life is a lie, would you prefer to be happy with a lie, or miserable with the truth?
Thinking you're happy isn't the same as being happy. Just like thinking you're cool isn't the same as being cool.
No, being cool relies on the judgement of someone outside yourself.  Happiness is all internal.
Okay, that was a bad example, but I still think there's a difference between thinking you're happy and being happy. Emotion is a hard thing to judge and can be influenced by your mindset. Everyone has "thought" they were in love at some point and later realized they weren't. Well if you haven't (forgot we have a lot of little guys here), then you will.
2008-09-11 14:23:04
too_money2007
Member
+145|6727|Keller, Tx

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

If a person is happy being what they are in their cult/religion it's fine by me. It's when they over step their boundaries and try to impose their "happiness" on others is when problems arise.

And it doesn't help the fact that alot of cults/religions tend to make the fact that one isn't truly happy until they've converted as many people as possible and shit.
Exactly what I was going to post. That and as long as it doesn't endanger kids welfare, then it's fine by me.

 

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