BF2S Forums Assault Weapons Ban

usmarine wrote:

no i mean his record.  you know, his "experience" so far.

His experience as a Senator, (or lack thereof) has not been brought into question compared to McCain, for two simple reasons.

The first is Joe Biden.

The second is Sarah Palin.

If you want to compare "experience" between McCain and Obama, your going to compare experience to those two as well.

The Republicans have failed to keep the pressure on Obama's inexperience.

usmarine wrote:

you are missing the point.  people should know about the person they support yes?  not just talking point comparisons.

What don't they know? The public record, is, public. Personal level attacks, are imo a dirty tactic and are only detrimental to your own campaign.

And anything else is a personal or private issues. If any of these are illegal, than sure, they should come into question.

But, for example, I couldn't care less if Bush was banging his secretary these past 8 years. What I do care about is that now North Korea is off the "supporter of terrorism" list due to the nuclear disarmament talks.

If it's not something that is going to change the issues that do matter, I don't care about the person. Just what they represent. And that is the people of America.

If they did, they would probably be surprised by what they find.

Looking into the past votes for and against on issues doesn't give a clear understanding of their beliefs anyway.

Obama could oppose an " anti-child abortion" bill because he thinks the mother does not have enough special treatment in the legal system, or that the he believes such a bill is unnecessary because the Hippocratic oath already covers the circumstances such a bill would affect.

He still voted against it, but how do you find out the motives for each of these votes?

That is the information which is harder to find.

I was having a discussion with a friend on the AWB, and he says you can get an AR-15 straight from a local manufacturer at pretty much any gunshow here in Missouri for approx. $600. 

Worth it?

(Sorry if this is a lil off topic)

Last edited by -CARNIFEX-[LOC] (2008-10-16 09:18:14)

You're going to have to provide me with something more than a single example. That page states that concealed carry permits are in place in the majority of US states, but the US still has a much, much bigger volume of firearms related violence than countries without concealed carry permits. Essentially, though, what I'm arguing against is continuing to proliferate firearms, and passing laws to bring them into the streets, in a country so plagued by their criminal applications. Gun violence is a problem that needs to be attacked at its roots, and arming everyone is doing precisely the opposite.

I'm not arguing for more proliferation, damnit!  I'm arguing for fewer/no new ineffective restrictions on law-abiding citizens!  I don't care if the total firearm supply in the US changes.  I care about what people with no criminal history/mental health dangers have the right to own.

You are completely missing the CCW debate here.  You are comparing crime rates in the US with other nations, then trying to argue that CCW laws are bad when the gun-crime rate was higher in the US during the whole time.  What you fail to notice is that crime rates (with and without guns) decreased in many US states after "lax" CCW laws were enacted.  Besides all the OTHER factors which influence crime rates (many of which are stronger correlations), how are you arguing CCW is bad when crime rates decreased?  Yes, the UK has a lower gun-crime rate.  However, their violent crime rate is pretty high (and increasing), while the US's crime rate has been decreasing. 

Are crime rates changing BECAUSE of gun laws?  Not neccessarily.  Gun laws and firearm proliferation have a very small impact on violent crime rates.  HOWEVER, numerous US states have found that CCW carriers commit very little crime, and are able to defend themselves and others.  Some studies indicate that CCW proliferation serves as a deterrent to criminals, while NOT increasing crime rates.

I highly reccomend reading "Targeting Guns" for a general overview of gun control in the US.  "More Guns, Less Crime" is a very in depth statistical analysis of CCW laws in the US, written by Lott.

Last edited by RAIMIUS (2008-10-16 14:05:21)

-CARNIFEX-[LOC] wrote:

I was having a discussion with a friend on the AWB, and he says you can get an AR-15 straight from a local manufacturer at pretty much any gunshow here in Missouri for approx. $600. 

Worth it?

(Sorry if this is a lil off topic)

if the local manufacturer is CMMG. DO IT!

i do business with them, and they make quality AR's. you will not be disappointed.

-CARNIFEX-[LOC] wrote:

I couldn't remember the manufacturer my friend had said, but I do remember that they are out of Fayette, so CMMG must be it...thnx for the input all.

yep, you are good to go.

i was set up next to them at a show last march. nice group of guys, and a great rifle.