I think it's just the RAM..

2008-10-27 01:15:21

#1

DonFck: Hibernator; +3,227|6898|Finland

Y hallo tharr!

I posted this exact same topic on trackr, but as I don't know how many of the tech-savvy masterminds have moved there to stay yet, I'm posting this here as well. For that extra coverage, you know.

Last weekend I decided to move my system into a new home by performing a complete organ transplant from an ugly model 2001 East German bulky plastic case to an Antec Sonata II Piano Black (which I got cheap).

So, everything went as planned, and I had moved the entire system in less than 1h30min. Whee! But then, problems appeared.

The system booted up, froze, I pressed reset, booted up. Once in Windows, the display went into "no signal-mode". No reaction from anything. So back to the ol' reset button it was. Then came the third symptom - crash and reboot after working in Windows for maybe 15 minutes.

Fast forward to last night:

Memtest86 did in fact find an error in the RAM, so I removed a pair of 512-sticks (tot. 4 pcs in the system), ran the test again and at 100% it found nothing wrong, seemed to work OK after that. Gonna buy 2x 1024 DDR400 today, methinks.

OK, back to the organ transplant.

It's quite shitty that these kinds of symptoms appear when you disconnect and reconnect everything. Makes it impossible to "trace back on what I did". So I disconnected everything, and reconnected it again. I even replaced the thermal paste between processor and heatsink. Rewired the whole shebang, and after running memtest again for an hour, the temp sensor which I have retrofitted (Akasa AllInOne) to the GPU gave me temps up to 85C and beeped its ass off. And I had done nothing but run memtest86. Fans at full speed and the temp drops to a nominal 40-45C. At this point, I'm speechelss and frustrated.

Oh, and about the Akasa AllInOne, I can't get the card reader to work, not a chance. I've plugged in the cables completely correctly in the mobo, but nothing. When I run the istallation CD for the reader, it prompts me to connect it first and stops the installation. Halp?

Finally the questions!

1. Are you thinking what I'm thinking, that it's the RAM?
2. If not the RAM, what else can be causing the issues?
3. Which would be better - 3Gb Single channel or 2Gb DualChannel?
4. Any tips on what I should do with the card-reader - it's a good add-on to the front panel afterall (especially now that it's hidden behind door number 1).
5. When your girlfriends visit, do you hide the porn, or am I being too paranoid?

System specs:
MB: AsRock DUAL Sata II s939
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (939)
RAM: 4x V-Data 512 DDR400 in DualChannel (2x 512 atm due to the above)
Graphics Card: NVIDIA 8600 GT
HDDs: WD Caviar 160Gb (IDE), Seagate Barracuda 160Gb (IDE) and Samsung 500Gb(SATA II)
Sound Card: SB Audigy 2
PSU: Nexus Silent Power 400W
Scythe Mine Rev. B CPU heatsink/cooler
Akasa AllInOne external temp monitoring for CPU and GPU (and a card reader that doesn't work)

Thanks in advance for any constructive and possibly helpful answers!

-Don-

I need around tree fiddy.

2008-10-27 01:34:16

#2

TheDonkey: Eat my bearrrrrrrrrrr, Tonighttt; +163|5984|Vancouver, BC, Canada

Dunno about the techie stuff, but for #5, back when I still had physical pr0n, I kept it in C:/Program Files/GSA/GameSpy/Logs/2007/10/20/ Or something similar.

Now, (everyone elses) pr0n is kept in the Shared BF2s Dropbox that noon'es touched in months now, but yeah, none of that is mine, I dunno how it got there.

2008-10-27 01:35:04

#3

CrazeD: Member; +368|6939|Maine

Most 939 rigs don't particularly like four sticks of RAM at once, which could be why you failed Memtest the first time. What you should do is run Memtest on each stick individually, for at least one pass. If you have a bad stick, you should be able to locate it that way.

Memtest shouldn't raise GPU temps at all...so 85*C at idle is odd, especially from a not-so-highend card.

Your symptoms are typical of a RAM issue, but also typical of other problems like PSU, overheating, etc.

2008-10-27 02:02:07

#4

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7076|Nårvei

At first i was thinking you had a HDD slave/primary problem but after reading it all i'm not so sure anymore ...

This sucks Donnie, i feel for you

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2008-10-27 02:30:42

#5

DonFck: Hibernator; +3,227|6898|Finland

CrazeD wrote:
Most 939 rigs don't particularly like four sticks of RAM at once, which could be why you failed Memtest the first time. What you should do is run Memtest on each stick individually, for at least one pass. If you have a bad stick, you should be able to locate it that way.

So you mean that the 4 sticks caused the error? Hmm..

CrazeD wrote:
Memtest shouldn't raise GPU temps at all...so 85*C at idle is odd, especially from a not-so-highend card.

That busted my balls aswell, I have no idea what happened, but the temps dropped to normal as soon as I booted.

CrazeD wrote:
Your symptoms are typical of a RAM issue, but also typical of other problems like PSU, overheating, etc.

I doubt it's overheating. The PSU is just on the limit of being underpowered, but then again, it ran fine in the old case (except for odd issues with my 4000+ single core, but that hasn't yet been confirmed as the PSU:s fault). All temps are normal (Confirmed with Speedfan), GPU core is at 56C idling, hence the addition of a fan, gently blowing air on it, like an italian lover blowing circles on your stomach after making sweet love to you. *splooge*

I hope it's the RAM. But if you mean that the fact that I had 4 sticks may have caused the error, I'm back to square one..

Crap.

Varegg wrote:
At first i was thinking you had a HDD slave/primary problem but after reading it all i'm not so sure anymore ...

I came to think that aswell, that's why I checked and double checked (I.e. rewired for absolute certainty).

Primary Master: WD Caviar 160Gb (IDE)
Primary Slave: Seagate Barracuda 160Gb (IDE)
Secondary Master: DVD +/- RW
Third Master: Samsung 500Gb(SATA II)

I need around tree fiddy.

2008-10-27 02:40:59

#6

max: Vela Incident; +1,652|6834|NYC / Hamburg

1. If taking out 2 sticks has solved the problem, it is the ram. I agree that socket 939 CPUs have issues with 4 sticks. Hell, my Opty 170 wouldn't even post with 4 sticks
2. It could have been loads of other things, but that is pretty much irrelevant, since you identified the ram as the culprit
3. If you're using your pagefile: 3GB, if you can manage with 2GB in dual channel, that's better.
4. What sort of connection does it use? Can you try connecting it to another port or even another PC? For a simple card reader, you shouldn't need drivers. Are the sensors calibrated. I wouldn't trust them otherwise
5. I have my drives on the server organized like this:
C:\ Windows
D:\ Data, music and application
E:\ TV
F:\ Movies 1-I
G:\ Movies J-S
H:\ Movies T-Z (which is dead currently )
I:\ Porn

i.e. don't be so paranoid. What sort of girlfriend doesn't realize you have porn?

Last edited by max (2008-10-27 02:42:23)

_{once upon a midnight dreary, while i pron surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of ' hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, " give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404.}

2008-10-27 02:46:28

#7

DonFck: Hibernator; +3,227|6898|Finland

So max, you think I should go out and buy 2x 1024 and run them in DC instead of getting E.g. 2x 512 and running 4x 512 in DC? Also, get rid of the remaining 512:s, and sell them for 10€ each instead of running 2x512 + 2x 1024 in SC?

I need around tree fiddy.

2008-10-27 02:47:50

#8

max: Vela Incident; +1,652|6834|NYC / Hamburg

I'd buy 2x1GB and sell everything else. 939's really don't like 4 sticks of ram

_{once upon a midnight dreary, while i pron surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of ' hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, " give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404.}

2008-10-27 02:54:20

#9

DonFck: Hibernator; +3,227|6898|Finland

I'll do just that, sir. Hope it helps and clears the issue.

The card reader is connected by a single USB-connector onto the MB:s USB-header, as seen here (above right, as seen in the instruction manual):

https://img510.imageshack.us/img510/5823/usbconnectionmg3.png

I tried every header in the mobo, no cigar. The headers are fine though, as I tried both the cases own front panel USB-wire and the Akasas, and they worked. With schematics, it's impossible to go wrong. Right?

Also, here's the MB:

https://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9006/mobo939ge4.png

1 PS2_USB_PWR1 Jumper
2 ATX Power Connector (ATXPWR1)
3 CPU Fan Connector (CPU_FAN1)
4 ATX 12V Power Connector (ATX12V1)
5 CPU Heatsink Retention Module
6 939-Pin CPU Socket
7 2 x 184-pin DDR DIMM Slots
(Dual Channel A: DDR1, DDR2; Blue)
8 2 x 184-pin DDR DIMM Slots
(Dual Channel B: DDR3, DDR4; Black)
9 North Bridge Controller 29 PCI Slots (PCI1- 3)
10 Serial ATAII Connector (SATAII_1, red)
11 JMicron JMB360 Chipset (PCIEX1 interface)
12 South Bridge Controller
13 Secondary Serial ATA Connector (SATA2)
14 Primary Serial ATA Connector (SATA1)
15 Primary IDE Connector (IDE1, Blue)
16 Secondary IDE Connector (IDE2, Black)
17 System Panel Header (PANEL1)
18 Chassis Speaker Header (SPEAKER 1)
19 Chassis Fan Connector (CHA_FAN1)
20 Clear CMOS Jumper (CLRTC1)
21 USB 2.0 Header (USB67, Blue)
22 USB 2.0 Header (USB45, Blue)
23 Flash Memory
24 Floppy Connector (FLOPPY1)
25 Infrared Module Header (IR1)
26 Game Port Header (GAME1)
27 Front Panel Audio Header (AUDIO1)
28 JR1 JL1 Jumper
30 AGP Slot (1.5V_AGP1)
31 J9 / J10 Jumper
32 PCI EXPRESS Slot (PCIE2)
33 J11 Jumper
34 PCI EXPRESS Slot (PCIE1)
35 Future CPU Port (FUTURE_CPU_PORT1)
36 Internal Audio Connector: CD1 (Black)
37 J1-J8 Jumpers

Easier than microwaving a pizza.

I need around tree fiddy.

2008-10-27 03:18:02

#10

kylef: Gone; +1,352|6760|N. Ireland

I bet he did it..

2008-10-27 03:22:39

#11

DonFck: Hibernator; +3,227|6898|Finland

kylef wrote:
I bet he did it..

Oh shi-

Haven't seen him in a while, but I remember leaving him at the office. Unless he's back for revenge because I abandoned him. Then again, he's dead and dried up.

I need around tree fiddy.

2008-10-27 03:36:37

#12

kylef: Gone; +1,352|6760|N. Ireland

DonFck wrote:
kylef wrote:
I bet he did it..
Oh shi-

Haven't seen him in a while, but I remember leaving him at the office. Unless he's back for revenge because I abandoned him. Then again, he's dead and dried up.

You abandoned him?! Your office cleaners must have had a nice little shock lol.

Anyway, I think it has already been said but try it with just one DIMM of RAM to see if that helps - I know on my old 939 system it didn't work when I put it all in at once, but then when I tried it with just 1 it worked fine (then added subsequent RAM later).

2008-10-27 03:39:08

#13

DonFck: Hibernator; +3,227|6898|Finland

kylef wrote:
DonFck wrote:
kylef wrote:
I bet he did it..
Oh shi-

Haven't seen him in a while, but I remember leaving him at the office. Unless he's back for revenge because I abandoned him. Then again, he's dead and dried up.
You abandoned him?! Your office cleaners must have had a nice little shock lol.

Anyway, I think it has already been said but try it with just one DIMM of RAM to see if that helps - I know on my old 939 system it didn't work when I put it all in at once, but then when I tried it with just 1 it worked fine (then added subsequent RAM later).

See, that's what's just weird. Been working with 4x 512 for a long time without any issues.

I'll go 2x 1024 DualChannel later today. Off to the store it is! V-Data 2048 Dualkit w. lifetime guarantee = 49 €.

I need around tree fiddy.

2008-10-27 07:36:07

#14

DonFck: Hibernator; +3,227|6898|Finland

Update:

I think it really was just the RAM. I've now switched to 2x1024 G.Skill ('cause they're cheap and they had run out of A-Data (or was it V-Data) Dualkits), and so far so good. Running in Dual Channel. OK, I just booted up this once but hell, it's been stable.

Let's hope it lasts, eh?

Now if I only could get that card reader to work..

I need around tree fiddy.

2008-10-27 09:00:52

#15

twoblacklines: all grown up now (its boring); +49|6474

when you run 4x1gb you need more voltage both to the ram and the chipset (mch) and ich.

Even when not overclocking!

2008-10-27 09:08:52

#16

Surgeons: U shud proabbly f off u fat prik; +3,097|6756|Gogledd Cymru

twoblacklines wrote:
when you run 4x1gb you need more voltage both to the ram and the chipset (mch) and ich.

Even when not overclocking!

I haven't had to raise my RAM voltages and I run 4*1gb

2008-10-27 09:25:57

#17

Freezer7Pro: I don't come here a lot anymore.; +1,447|6464|Winland

twoblacklines wrote:
when you run 4x1gb you need more voltage both to the ram and the chipset (mch) and ich.

Even when not overclocking!

That depends ompletely on the system.

The idea of any hi-fi system is to reproduce the source material as faithfully as possible, and to deliberately add distortion to everything you hear (due to amplifier deficiencies) because it sounds 'nice' is simply not high fidelity. If that is what you want to hear then there is no problem with that, but by adding so much additional material (by way of harmonics and intermodulation) you have a tailored sound system, not a hi-fi. - Rod Elliot, ESP

2008-10-27 11:19:34

#18

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7076|Nårvei

Sounds good Donnie

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2008-10-27 11:24:00

#19

baggs: Member; +732|6471

twoblacklines wrote:
when you run 4x1gb you need more voltage both to the ram and the chipset (mch) and ich.

Even when not overclocking!

I'm pretty sure the ram has to be verified to run at voltages above 1.8v.

2008-10-27 11:37:59

#20

Freezer7Pro: I don't come here a lot anymore.; +1,447|6464|Winland

baggs wrote:
twoblacklines wrote:
when you run 4x1gb you need more voltage both to the ram and the chipset (mch) and ich.

Even when not overclocking!
I'm pretty sure the ram has to be verified to run at voltages above 1.8v.

My RAM doesn't read 2.4V, but I run it at that anyhow.

The idea of any hi-fi system is to reproduce the source material as faithfully as possible, and to deliberately add distortion to everything you hear (due to amplifier deficiencies) because it sounds 'nice' is simply not high fidelity. If that is what you want to hear then there is no problem with that, but by adding so much additional material (by way of harmonics and intermodulation) you have a tailored sound system, not a hi-fi. - Rod Elliot, ESP

2008-10-27 11:45:57

#21

twoblacklines: all grown up now (its boring); +49|6474

verified ? by who / what ?

i run mine at manufacteres 2.1v rating, but it will run at 1.8v and also 2.2v

2008-10-27 13:10:33

#22

DUnlimited: got any popo lolo intersting?; +1,160|6730|cuntshitlake

Well if you run your RAM at 2.3V and that causes permanent damage, the RAM manufacturer is responsible.

wikipedia wrote:
According to JEDEC the maximum recommended voltage is 1.9 volts and should be considered the absolute maximum when memory stability is an issue (such as in servers or other mission critical devices). In addition, JEDEC states that memory modules must withstand up to 2.3 volts before incurring permanent damage (although they may not actually function correctly at that level).

I am not sure how true this is in reality though.

Last edited by DeathUnlimited (2008-10-27 13:12:18)

main battle tank karthus medikopter 117 megamegapowershot gg

2008-10-27 13:41:35

#23

DonFck: Hibernator; +3,227|6898|Finland

That all sounds like bunnies and pancakes to me, but this is what Speedfan tells me:

https://img379.imageshack.us/img379/7310/speedfanec3.png

Good or bad, you tell me. Be as it may, the system runs good again, it seems.

However, any good tips on the card reader would be appreciated. Otherwise, the system seems to like its new home in the Antec.

I need around tree fiddy.

2008-10-27 13:46:58

#24

DUnlimited: got any popo lolo intersting?; +1,160|6730|cuntshitlake

DonFck wrote:
That all sounds like bunnies and pancakes to me, but this is what Speedfan tells me:

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/7310/speedfanec3.png

Good or bad, you tell me. Be as it may, the system runs good again, it seems.

However, any good tips on the card reader would be appreciated. Otherwise, the system seems to like its new home in the Antec.

Looking good there

But where are the pics of the new case/setup?

main battle tank karthus medikopter 117 megamegapowershot gg

2008-10-27 14:38:15

#25

DonFck: Hibernator; +3,227|6898|Finland

DeathUnlimited wrote:
DonFck wrote:
That all sounds like bunnies and pancakes to me, but this is what Speedfan tells me:

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/7310/speedfanec3.png

Good or bad, you tell me. Be as it may, the system runs good again, it seems.

However, any good tips on the card reader would be appreciated. Otherwise, the system seems to like its new home in the Antec.
Looking good there

But where are the pics of the new case/setup?

1) It's just the same system in a new case - OK did some very minimal cable management, but nothing good looking - just though of airflow, not aesthetics.
2) It's still an old case, even if it's new for me
3) The card reader would enable me to upload faster - I hate cables
4) It's an old midrange rig with nothing special in it - my e-penis would take serious damage

But here you go

https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/DonFck/Rig/Diag.jpg

https://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t63/DonFck/Rig/Side.jpg

As I said, nothing special.

I need around tree fiddy.

BF2S Forums I think it's just the RAM..

CrazeD wrote:

CrazeD wrote:

CrazeD wrote:

Varegg wrote:

kylef wrote:

DonFck wrote:

kylef wrote:

kylef wrote:

DonFck wrote:

kylef wrote:

twoblacklines wrote:

twoblacklines wrote:

twoblacklines wrote:

baggs wrote:

twoblacklines wrote:

wikipedia wrote:

DonFck wrote:

DeathUnlimited wrote:

DonFck wrote:

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