Tbh the 4870 OC provides bettter performance/price ratio's than the GTX260 unless you have a 1920x1200 display...
Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me
Sisco, why not wait for the 4870 1GB Toxic to become available again? Or see if you can source it elsewhere? That's what I would personally do. The quad cores really probably won't ever be used in games, so just stick with the E8400 and throw your money elsewhere. Maybe a better monitor? New keyboard or mouse? Or just get the most badass video card?
CapnNismo wrote:
http://www.alternate.at/html/product/Grafikkarten_ATI_PCIe/Sapphire/TOXIC_HD4870_1GB_Gamestar_Edition/310692/?
Actually, I was referring to this one. Up until recently, that card was available to buy, but at the moment it isn't. Guess they completely ran out of stock?
I spoke with one of the people that work at Altenate in Wien and he recommended the Sapphire over the ASUS or Palit cards. The ASUS was naturally more expensive and the Palit cheaper.
Hm, I spoke to a friend yesterday evening and we were both puzzled. The HD4870 does have less memory, but chip and memory have higher clockspeed plus its the new gddr5, compared to GT260´s lesser clockspeed but almost twice as much memory.FloppY_ wrote:
Tbh the 4870 OC provides bettter performance/price ratio's than the GTX260 unless you have a 1920x1200 display...
Do higher clockspeeds perform better than more memory?
Plus, if I use the mainboard max recommended me, I would have the option of buying a second card for crossfire later on.
@nismo, the card you suggested does have higher clockrates (780 chip/4000 ram) compared to the cheaper one I picked. DOes it make much of a difference?
@floppy, I was aiming at a 22inch screen, as far as I´ve seen they run by something around 1680x1050. So I should go for the ati, right?
It says nowhere on the site, when it becomes available again unfortunately I don´t want to wait weeks to get this PC.CapnNismo wrote:
Sisco, why not wait for the 4870 1GB Toxic to become available again? Or see if you can source it elsewhere? That's what I would personally do. The quad cores really probably won't ever be used in games, so just stick with the E8400 and throw your money elsewhere. Maybe a better monitor? New keyboard or mouse? Or just get the most badass video card?
The P5Q Pro supports Crossfire. Stick with that, that's what is in my build.
I'll put it to you like this, take a look at these benchmarks for the 512MB Sapphire Toxic and you tell me if you think the 260 is still a good buy: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews … oxic/7.htm
Then just imagine that same card with TWICE the memory. Yea. Need a new pair of underpants?
Here are more benchmarks of the 512MB Toxic: http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=117745
I'll put it to you like this, take a look at these benchmarks for the 512MB Sapphire Toxic and you tell me if you think the 260 is still a good buy: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews … oxic/7.htm
Then just imagine that same card with TWICE the memory. Yea. Need a new pair of underpants?
Here are more benchmarks of the 512MB Toxic: http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=117745
The Palit is also certainly one way you could go. It matches the Toxic pretty much punch for punch, but I still go with the recommendation. I also have a slight problem with the mantra "you get what you pay for".
Wowie, the 260 does have a few more fps here and there, but overall I´d say thetoxic performes better.CapnNismo wrote:
The P5Q Pro supports Crossfire. Stick with that, that's what is in my build.
I'll put it to you like this, take a look at these benchmarks for the 512MB Sapphire Toxic and you tell me if you think the 260 is still a good buy: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews … oxic/7.htm
Then just imagine that same card with TWICE the memory. Yea. Need a new pair of underpants?
Here are more benchmarks of the 512MB Toxic: http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=117745
So the Palit BabyJesus posted looks like a real bargain. Twice the memory for the same price? Nice. The reviews presented on the site are good too.
Thing is, with not knowing when the Spphire comes into stock again, I´d take the Palit, although I´ve never heard of that brand before.
Soooo, what about this one:
Total: 959,77€
It says the RAM does not comply with JEDEC standards. What the hell does that mean?
Total: 959,77€
It says the RAM does not comply with JEDEC standards. What the hell does that mean?
Lol no idea.Sisco10 wrote:
Soooo, what about this one:
http://www.abload.de/img/zwischenablage01g66m.jpg
Total: 959,77€
It says the RAM does not comply with JEDEC standards. What the hell does that mean?
EDIT: about the video card. although palit isnt a top of the line brand. they do make decent cards. i saw a comparison of the toxic and palit cards and the palit was the clear winner. its cooler (although louder) and performs exactly the same. however the price is very reasonable. When i bought my palit 1gb 4870 the sapphire card with reference (default) cooler was $90 more.... the toxic even more than that. so i was like stuf that
Last edited by Little BaBy JESUS (2009-01-09 01:48:25)
You removed the P182....
That makes me a sad panda
That makes me a sad panda
The references on this card say its cooler and more quiet.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
Lol no idea.Sisco10 wrote:
Soooo, what about this one:
http://www.abload.de/img/zwischenablage01g66m.jpg
Total: 959,77€
It says the RAM does not comply with JEDEC standards. What the hell does that mean?
EDIT: about the video card. although palit isnt a top of the line brand. they do make decent cards. i saw a comparison of the toxic and palit cards and the palit was the clear winner. its cooler (although louder) and performs exactly the same. however the price is very reasonable. When i bought my palit 1gb 4870 the sapphire card with reference (default) cooler was $90 more.... the toxic even more than that. so i was like stuf that
Anyways, silence is important, but not over power.
I was about to type out that you need to find RAM to match the DDR2-1200 clock speed, but then I noticed something interesting ... on New Egg, it lists the P5Q Pro as supporting DDR2-1200 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a … 6813131299) whereas at Alternate, they have the board as only up to a maximum of DDR2-1066 (http://www.alternate.de/html/product/Ma … Sockel+775).
So who is right and who is wrong? I don't exactly have a box or instruction manual to look at, so perhaps someone here who owns one could help us. Max?
So who is right and who is wrong? I don't exactly have a box or instruction manual to look at, so perhaps someone here who owns one could help us. Max?
BTW, I found out what that JEDEC stuff means. It means that you will probably have to set the voltage of your memory manually in BIOS. Because JEDEC is official at 1.5 or 1.8V, some modules use 2.1V. Therefore, you have to manually turn up the juice to fix any instability issues.
EDIT:
Apparently, New Egg is missing information on their page for the P5Q Pro. It supports 1200, 1066, or 800. NE is also saying that it supports only up to 8GB of memory, whereas the manual (and Alternate) says it supports up to 16GB. I found the manual after trudging through ASUS's website and I had to get the manual in German (thank goodness I speak it) because the only English one that they had was the P5QL Pro (whatever the hell THAT is). However, Alternate does not list the DDR2-1200 as being supported.
Interesting, huh?
I suppose the question is, which would be better: 4GB of 1066 or 2GB of 1200??? The 4GB kits costs €51,90 (through the Austrian site) and the 2GB kit costs €43,49. They both have the same 5-5-5-18 latencies. The 1066 requires 2.2V whereas the 1200 requires 2.3V. So no matter what, turning up the voltage will probably be required.
EDIT:
Apparently, New Egg is missing information on their page for the P5Q Pro. It supports 1200, 1066, or 800. NE is also saying that it supports only up to 8GB of memory, whereas the manual (and Alternate) says it supports up to 16GB. I found the manual after trudging through ASUS's website and I had to get the manual in German (thank goodness I speak it) because the only English one that they had was the P5QL Pro (whatever the hell THAT is). However, Alternate does not list the DDR2-1200 as being supported.
Interesting, huh?
I suppose the question is, which would be better: 4GB of 1066 or 2GB of 1200??? The 4GB kits costs €51,90 (through the Austrian site) and the 2GB kit costs €43,49. They both have the same 5-5-5-18 latencies. The 1066 requires 2.2V whereas the 1200 requires 2.3V. So no matter what, turning up the voltage will probably be required.
Last edited by CapnNismo (2009-01-09 03:21:14)
Wow, thanks for all the effort nismo! I´m really puzzled with all this stuff.CapnNismo wrote:
BTW, I found out what that JEDEC stuff means. It means that you will probably have to set the voltage of your memory manually in BIOS. Because JEDEC is official at 1.5 or 1.8V, some modules use 2.1V. Therefore, you have to manually turn up the juice to fix any instability issues.
EDIT:
Apparently, New Egg is missing information on their page for the P5Q Pro. It supports 1200, 1066, or 800. NE is also saying that it supports only up to 8GB of memory, whereas the manual (and Alternate) says it supports up to 16GB. I found the manual after trudging through ASUS's website and I had to get the manual in German (thank goodness I speak it) because the only English one that they had was the P5QL Pro (whatever the hell THAT is). However, Alternate does not list the DDR2-1200 as being supported.
Interesting, huh?
I suppose the question is, which would be better: 4GB of 1066 or 2GB of 1200??? The 4GB kits costs €51,90 (through the Austrian site) and the 2GB kit costs €43,49. They both have the same 5-5-5-18 latencies. The 1066 requires 2.2V whereas the 1200 requires 2.3V. So no matter what, turning up the voltage will probably be required.
Plus, I just saw over at alternate, that the Palit card is outta stock fuck. The only 1gig alternative is is one from gainward or sapphire, for around 50 bucks more
And teh DVD Burner is out too
Opting for a second old card when the time comes is never worth it... you can most oftenly get a brand new card that outpeforms the Crossfire/SLi setup of the two old ones and still costs the same as the old card (if you are lucky enough to find one in-stock...
P5QL series = P43 chipset instead of P45... oh and allmost half the price...CapnNismo wrote:
P5QL Pro (whatever the hell THAT is).
Last edited by FloppY_ (2009-01-09 08:58:52)
Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me
Tie good enough and you don't have to worry about. Modular just gives you one more electrical gap to worry about.RDMC wrote:
No excess cables.Sup wrote:
Why modular?
Modular gives you less electrical gaps to worry about if you have a big system tbh... no need for adapters or extensions as you just plug in the kind of wire you need...unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Tie good enough and you don't have to worry about. Modular just gives you one more electrical gap to worry about.RDMC wrote:
No excess cables.Sup wrote:
Why modular?
And I would not let that crapton of excess wires ugly up my new PC tbh
Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me
anyone saying modular gives more electric gap should think twice....
There are 1500w modular PSUs that work jsut fine at REALLY high usage. It doesn't mean crap if its modular or not. You can just put the cables u need in there with modular.
edit: hell probably THE BEST ~1000w PSU Enermax Revolution 1050w is modular and still best all.
There are 1500w modular PSUs that work jsut fine at REALLY high usage. It doesn't mean crap if its modular or not. You can just put the cables u need in there with modular.
edit: hell probably THE BEST ~1000w PSU Enermax Revolution 1050w is modular and still best all.
Last edited by GC_PaNzerFIN (2009-01-09 11:55:13)
3930K | H100i | RIVF | 16GB DDR3 | GTX 480 | AX750 | 800D | 512GB SSD | 3TB HDD | Xonar DX | W8
Hm, you might be right. But to have the option is a nice bonus. I intended to get a nvidia first, but the P5Q seems to be the best affordable mainboard on the market so far, and since it´s an ati board i have the option for crossfire.FloppY_ wrote:
Opting for a second old card when the time comes is never worth it... you can most oftenly get a brand new card that outpeforms the Crossfire/SLi setup of the two old ones and still costs the same as the old card (if you are lucky enough to find one in-stock...P5QL series = P43 chipset instead of P45... oh and allmost half the price...CapnNismo wrote:
P5QL Pro (whatever the hell THAT is).
Never knows, if a second card comes as a bargain in half a year...
Oh, and I picked a modular PSU too. 10 bucks more and I like the flexibility. My old PC had teh problem of powercables being too short, so I had to extend them with extra cables which produced quite a mess
Last edited by Sisco10 (2009-01-09 14:43:55)
Yeah that is right... Although I'd say P5Q pro if you choose ATi now, and P5Q if you choose Nvidia nowSisco10 wrote:
Hm, you might be right. But to have the option is a nice bonus. I intended to get a nvidia first, but the P5Q seems to be the best affordable mainboard on the market so far, and since it´s an ati board i have the option for crossfire.FloppY_ wrote:
Opting for a second old card when the time comes is never worth it... you can most oftenly get a brand new card that outpeforms the Crossfire/SLi setup of the two old ones and still costs the same as the old card (if you are lucky enough to find one in-stock...P5QL series = P43 chipset instead of P45... oh and allmost half the price...CapnNismo wrote:
P5QL Pro (whatever the hell THAT is).
Never knows, if a second card comes as a bargain in half a year...
Oh, and I picked a modular PSU too. 10 bucks more and I like the flexibility. My old PC had teh problem of powercables being too short, so I had to extend them with extra cables which produced quite a mess
When the time comes and you want to replace your Nvidia card with 2 ATi cards, I bet there are more interesting stuff out (P55 chipset maybe) that will provide i7-i5 level builds... but we can't be sure...
Personally (as you can see) I chose P5Q for my 4870, since I am planning on a single GPU upgrade down the line if (when) necessary
And yes, modular PSU > Regular cable mess... I can honestly say that I am glad I opted for the HX620W rather than the VX750W at the same price...
edit: spell check
Last edited by FloppY_ (2009-01-09 15:08:20)
Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me
Looks like I´m gonna get the pro board. nismo convinced me to get the 4870 1 gig.FloppY_ wrote:
Yeah that is right... Although I'd say P5Q pro if you choose ATi now, and P5Q if you choose Nvidia nowSisco10 wrote:
Hm, you might be right. But to have the option is a nice bonus. I intended to get a nvidia first, but the P5Q seems to be the best affordable mainboard on the market so far, and since it´s an ati board i have the option for crossfire.FloppY_ wrote:
Opting for a second old card when the time comes is never worth it... you can most oftenly get a brand new card that outpeforms the Crossfire/SLi setup of the two old ones and still costs the same as the old card (if you are lucky enough to find one in-stock...
P5QL series = P43 chipset instead of P45... oh and allmost half the price...
Never knows, if a second card comes as a bargain in half a year...
Oh, and I picked a modular PSU too. 10 bucks more and I like the flexibility. My old PC had teh problem of powercables being too short, so I had to extend them with extra cables which produced quite a mess
When the time comes and you want to replace your Nvidia card with 2 ATi cards, I bet there are more interesting stuff out (P55 chipset maybe) that will provide i7-i5 level builds... but we can't be sure...
Personally (as you can see) I chose P5Q for my 4870, since I am planning on a single GPU upgrade down the line if (when) necessary
And yes, modular PSU > Regular cable mess... I can honestly say that I am glad I opted for the HX620W rather than the VX750W at the same price...
edit: spell check
You guys think this one is any good:
http://www.alternate.de/html/pcbuilder/ … 6&cn=1
The build would be as this.
Had to replace the burner, I hope the one I chose is good.
993,18€ total
Last edited by Sisco10 (2009-01-10 00:55:44)
Don't know about that brand personally... But I would go with Sapphire/ASUS for ATi cardsSisco10 wrote:
Looks like I´m gonna get the pro board. nismo convinced me to get the 4870 1 gig.FloppY_ wrote:
Yeah that is right... Although I'd say P5Q pro if you choose ATi now, and P5Q if you choose Nvidia nowSisco10 wrote:
Hm, you might be right. But to have the option is a nice bonus. I intended to get a nvidia first, but the P5Q seems to be the best affordable mainboard on the market so far, and since it´s an ati board i have the option for crossfire.
Never knows, if a second card comes as a bargain in half a year...
Oh, and I picked a modular PSU too. 10 bucks more and I like the flexibility. My old PC had teh problem of powercables being too short, so I had to extend them with extra cables which produced quite a mess
When the time comes and you want to replace your Nvidia card with 2 ATi cards, I bet there are more interesting stuff out (P55 chipset maybe) that will provide i7-i5 level builds... but we can't be sure...
Personally (as you can see) I chose P5Q for my 4870, since I am planning on a single GPU upgrade down the line if (when) necessary
And yes, modular PSU > Regular cable mess... I can honestly say that I am glad I opted for the HX620W rather than the VX750W at the same price...
edit: spell check
You guys think this one is any good:
http://www.alternate.de/html/pcbuilder/ … 6&cn=1
The build would be as this.
http://www.abload.de/img/zwischenablage01n48x.jpg
Had to replace the burner, I hope the one I chose is good.
993,18€ total
EDIT: The same DVD burner I have ordered for my build
It should be ok, and it is a very nice price here and there
Also: If you are planning on 32bit you could cut 2 gigs of ram off to improve your budget since the 1Gig 4870 really eats alot from those ~3Gigs 32bit can utilize
Last edited by FloppY_ (2009-01-10 04:57:57)
Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me
But if he keeps the 4GB he's good to go for Windows 7 64bit if he decides to move to new OS. 'wink wink'
3930K | H100i | RIVF | 16GB DDR3 | GTX 480 | AX750 | 800D | 512GB SSD | 3TB HDD | Xonar DX | W8
yeah, but then again he could allways get them later :pGC_PaNzerFIN wrote:
But if he keeps the 4GB he's good to go for Windows 7 64bit if he decides to move to new OS. 'wink wink'
Your thoughts, insights, and musings on this matter intrigue me