A controversial idea - a petrol/gas tax.

2009-01-21 20:14:25

#1

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7091|Canberra, AUS

Now, I know a lot of people are vehemently opposed to any notion of such (and fair enough), but I think it bears looking at. Apart from the obvious reasons which I won't waste time discussing, I would much prefer that money spent on petrol was staying inside the economy instead of funding al-Qaeda supporters. (the whole idea by the way is to reduce demand).

EDIT: Maybe 'tax' is the wrong word. More of a price floor is what I'm think of. So if it 'falls' below it's undercapped.

Last edited by Spark (2009-01-21 20:20:32)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2009-01-21 20:15:53

#2

usmarine: Banned; +2,785|7178

yes more taxes pls, that will get the economy rolling.

2009-01-21 20:17:07

#3

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7091|Canberra, AUS

hence the 'fair enough' part.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2009-01-21 20:18:04

#4

S.Lythberg: Mastermind; +429|6863|Chicago, IL

OMG A TAX ON GAS!

get with the times...

2009-01-21 20:18:48

#5

usmarine: Banned; +2,785|7178

Spark wrote:
hence the 'fair enough' part.

well i hear a lot about cars, but no real solutions for trucks that move the goods we all use. so until then...its a fucking stupid idea.

2009-01-21 20:19:42

#6

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7091|Canberra, AUS

S.Lythberg wrote:
OMG A TAX ON GAS!

get with the times...

Hmm. Maybe I should clarify.

(updating OP)

Last edited by Spark (2009-01-21 20:19:52)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2009-01-21 20:20:38

#7

Flaming_Maniac: prince of insufficient light; +2,490|7123|67.222.138.85

Because people spend more money when they can't go anywhere with their cars, as they just turn to their trusty DeLorean with complementary stolen plutonium to get where they are going to either spend or make money.

2009-01-21 20:21:26

#8

FatherTed: xD; +3,936|6916|so randum

Spark wrote:
Now, I know a lot of people are vehemently opposed to any notion of such (and fair enough), but I think it bears looking at. Apart from the obvious reasons which I won't waste time discussing, I would much prefer that money spent on petrol was staying inside the economy instead of funding al-Qaeda supporters. (the whole idea by the way is to reduce demand).

EDIT: Maybe 'tax' is the wrong word. More of a price floor is what I'm think of. So if it 'falls' below it's undercapped.

I swear we already have massive tax on fuel?

Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella

2009-01-21 20:23:16

#9

S.Lythberg: Mastermind; +429|6863|Chicago, IL

How about a fixed price, since nobody on earth can tell me how the gas price is determined?

2009-01-21 20:24:25

#10

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7091|Canberra, AUS

FatherTed wrote:
Spark wrote:
Now, I know a lot of people are vehemently opposed to any notion of such (and fair enough), but I think it bears looking at. Apart from the obvious reasons which I won't waste time discussing, I would much prefer that money spent on petrol was staying inside the economy instead of funding al-Qaeda supporters. (the whole idea by the way is to reduce demand).

EDIT: Maybe 'tax' is the wrong word. More of a price floor is what I'm think of. So if it 'falls' below it's undercapped.
I swear we already have massive tax on fuel?

Talking to Americans here, was actually going to use Europeans as a model

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2009-01-21 20:25:06

#11

Catbox: forgiveness; +505|7132

If there was a tax on gas... everything would be more expensive... truck owners and companies etc... would pass it on to the consumer...
If the tax was used for good purposes than that would be great... if it will be thrown into the abyss like most of the tax money... then no...
the fact that gas is so cheap is kind of a miniboom(mini) to the economy... people can spend the 2 plus dollars a gallon they save on every gallon for food/rent/whatever... just a small benefit... we need to keep conserving like it was 4 bucks a gallon... people changed their habits fast when it did...

Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2009-01-21 20:26:39)

Love is the answer

2009-01-21 20:25:50

#12

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7091|Canberra, AUS

I don't know about you but any abyss the government can come up with always trumps terrorists.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2009-01-21 20:26:46

#13

FatherTed: xD; +3,936|6916|so randum

[TUF]Catbox wrote:
If there was a tax on gas... everything would be more expensive... truck owners and companies etc... would pass it on to the consumer...
If the tax was used for good purposes than that would be great... if it will be thrown into the abyss like most of the tax money... then no...
the fact that gas is so cheap is kind of a miniboom(mini) to the economy... people can spend the 2 plus dollars a gallon they save on every gallon for food/rent/whatever...

Doesn't work so simple.

Here in the UK and EU in general, we have (massive) fuel on tax, yet we don't live in squalor etc. It evens out eventually.

However, a sudden and direct implementation of tax (noticeable) would cause inequalities in the system, naturally.

Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella

2009-01-21 20:27:39

#14

Catbox: forgiveness; +505|7132

by terrorists... do you mean shell or exxon...lol?

Love is the answer

2009-01-21 20:28:13

#15

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7091|Canberra, AUS

[TUF]Catbox wrote:
by terrorists... do you mean shell or exxon...lol?

I mean Osama bin Laden. Geez...

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2009-01-21 20:30:35

#16

usmarine: Banned; +2,785|7178

Spark wrote:
[TUF]Catbox wrote:
by terrorists... do you mean shell or exxon...lol?
I mean Osama bin Laden. Geez...

so canada gives money to bin laden?

2009-01-21 20:31:22

#17

Catbox: forgiveness; +505|7132

i know... i was kidding... hard to convey through text...lol
We need to keep acting like gas is 4 dollars a gallon... it was wild... there were a lot less cars on the road and people were using buses and subways... in fact... some people are still conserving... but cheap gas makes people forget...

Love is the answer

2009-01-21 20:50:25

#18

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|7091|Canberra, AUS

[TUF]Catbox wrote:
i know... i was kidding... hard to convey through text...lol
We need to keep acting like gas is 4 dollars a gallon... it was wild... there were a lot less cars on the road and people were using buses and subways... in fact... some people are still conserving... but cheap gas makes people forget...

My sarcasm meter has been smashed. Sorry

Unfortunately many people are subconsciously sheep. Unless poked by some kind of price signal they'll just be like 'oh ok' and pretend that the future will just be like today.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2009-01-21 22:22:51

#19

rdx-fx: ...; +955|7007

Average tax on a gallon of gasoline is already $0.47/gal in the USA.

The tax percentage for gasoline in the rest of the western world is much worse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_tax

2009-01-21 23:06:52

#20

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6945|Global Command

I wouldn't worry too much about needing to reduce demand; the economy will take care of that.

2009-01-21 23:16:38

#21

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,822|6522|eXtreme to the maX

It works well enough in the rest of the world.
All fuel is taxed, higher if its imported.
If its used for business some or all of the tax can be reclaimed through the tax system.
Not a big deal really.

It encourages people to use less of an imported product, buy smaller cars, buy less fuel hungry products - eg not refrigerated produce shipped vast distances.
And as mentioned above people might actually use public transport and invest in alternatives.

Seem to be win all round.

Fuck Israel

2009-01-22 03:21:33

#22

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6827|'Murka

I don't see how those measures would drop the amount of money going back to countries like Saudi Arabia and such. They get their share regardless. The only thing that would reduce (not ever eliminate) their revenue would be a vastly reduced demand (a floor/tax won't do that). And that is decades away.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-01-22 11:45:20

#23

HollisHurlbut: Member; +51|6414

Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Because people spend more money when they can't go anywhere with their cars, as they just turn to their trusty DeLorean with complementary stolen plutonium to get where they are going to either spend or make money.

Well, you have to remember Back to the Future III to realize the flaw in this idea: plutonium (and then Mr. Fusion) powers the flux capacitor. The DeLorean itself runs on ordinary gasoline.

'Twas a good idea though...

2009-01-22 12:27:44

#24

Agent_Dung_Bomb: Member; +302|7152|Salt Lake City

My opinion is this. A gas floor may not be such a bad idea. Keep people thinking about how they drive, how much they drive, and what they drive. You could then give businesses that actually require vehicles for their operation (truck drivers, delivery services, etc.) and tax deduction of the difference between going fuel prices and the price created by the artificial floor.

This gives companies that have no choice but to employ vehicles, as part of their business, a means of staying competitive without harsh price increases, while forcing consumers to really think about whether they need to be driving a Suburban as their daily commuter vehicle.

2009-01-22 12:48:43

#25

Spearhead: Gulf coast redneck hippy; +731|7106|Tampa Bay Florida

In Europe, it seems 3/4's of the population can live just fine without owning a car (whether its because of all the freakin bread shops, bicycles, or socialist public transport, and everyone lives in fairly cramped conditions).

In the USA its not that simple. Land far away from urban centers = cheap, which then ='s half the country living in suburban sprawl where it takes you at least a half hour to get to the nearest gas station on foot.

just sayin... for all the euro's. not commenting on gas tax tho. just pointing out the differences.

Last edited by Spearhead (2009-01-22 12:49:58)

BF2S Forums A controversial idea - a petrol/gas tax.

Spark wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

Spark wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

Spark wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Spark wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

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