There are no "guns" to stick to, what is being posted here, that poor people are anessential part of an economy, that they help an economy, that they contribute to an economy in any real or significant way is bullshit. They have no money to contribute, and what they do have is given to them by someone else and this is being maintained that this makes a difference in the economy. Talk about transfer of ownership, what is the difference between ME spending my money that I earned, and letting someone who doesn't earn it, spend it. Personally I would rather let me spend my money. The money is already earned ( not by them) so where is their contribution? In short, the poor is spending SOMEONE ELSES money. This is not contributing or adding shit to the economy. All it does is transfer MY money to someone else for spending. Anyone mind if I keep my own earnings so I can spend it?destruktion_6143 wrote:
i think its the latter. honestly, no one can be this ignorant. not even lowing. there are a LOT of ppl here who understand this more than i do (dayarath,Fancy, AR, Scorp,cam) so how could i argue with em?Spark wrote:
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know ego-stroking was a full time job.lowing wrote:
sorry guys, love to talk but I gotta get to work. You know what work is right? That is the place where I gotta go, in order to keep up with my bills and yours. See ya in about 12 hours or so. Enjoy your time off. I got yer back
Or maybe you're deliberately just being an arrogant ass. Whatever.
lowing i do commend u for sticking to your guns tho, even if that means looking dumber as u do it
the poor have freedom to choose, they choose poor apparently. If they didn't choose poor, they would find a job, find some education, it is free after all. I wonder how an illegal aliean can come here and work in 15 minutes, yet our poor just can't seem to find a job.TheAussieReaper wrote:
You really are anti-govt spending aren't you? I suppose that's to be admired, but without these assistance those poor people, they would most likely die. I don't think the government is passing cheques so these people vote Democrat or Republican.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
Rich people are careful with their money... they don't waste it like poor people... So in essence... we take money from wealthy people in the form of taxes... like they did last spring...they give a stimulus check to the the poor folks who go out and blow the 600 bucks... pffft... there is a small bump in spending... then the next month back to usual spending...
My big problem is giving money to an inefficient govt(they continue to tell us what they think we need and are usually wrong)...
I am not rich myself... but i understand how jobs and wealth are created... The govt hopes by getting poor people hooked on handouts that they will have votes for life and nobody will question what they do... as long as the check shows up... thats all...
And you take money from everyone, not just the rich. And guess what, the poor pay taxes too.
Giving the poor one of payments is a stop gap measure designed to help the retailers, for one. The reason you do this is to regain consumer confidence and business confidence. And as you know, confidence means a lot in the economics world. The small bump in spending is trying to kick start a car. It is a bump, but the bump can have positive effects.
Again I'll just say the government is not giving poor people money for votes, the poor aren't getting a good life out of this system either, they are poor.
Lowing will have us believe that they choose to go from handout to handout, the reality is that it is a struggle.
They have no freedom to choose lowing. Education is NOT free. And the illegal aliens get jobs easily in the US because they are treated very poorly, work less than minimum wage and work huge hours.lowing wrote:
the poor have freedom to choose, they choose poor apparently. If they didn't choose poor, they would find a job, find some education, it is free after all. I wonder how an illegal aliean can come here and work in 15 minutes, yet our poor just can't seem to find a job.
Yup they have a choice, they chose to drop out of school, they chose to not better themselves through hard work or even an attempt at it. THey chose, sink so deep that they can not pull themselves out. They had a choice, and they made it.TheAussieReaper wrote:
They have no freedom to choose lowing. Education is NOT free. And the illegal aliens get jobs easily in the US because they are treated very poorly, work less than minimum wage and work huge hours.lowing wrote:
the poor have freedom to choose, they choose poor apparently. If they didn't choose poor, they would find a job, find some education, it is free after all. I wonder how an illegal aliean can come here and work in 15 minutes, yet our poor just can't seem to find a job.
The poor and unable to find work are kept out of work by more factors than choice. Have you met anyone looking for work who is poor? It's terribly difficult. Worse if they have no home and\or are living in terrible conditions.
It's easier to hire illegal aliens, because you don't have to keep them on your books either. And why would you?
Sounds so simple when you put it like that ... sorry to break it to you lowing but really people doesn't make those choices because they want to be dropouts or because they want to be poor ...lowing wrote:
Yup they have a choice, they chose to drop out of school, they chose to not better themselves through hard work or even an attempt at it. THey chose, sink so deep that they can not pull themselves out. They had a choice, and they made it.TheAussieReaper wrote:
They have no freedom to choose lowing. Education is NOT free. And the illegal aliens get jobs easily in the US because they are treated very poorly, work less than minimum wage and work huge hours.lowing wrote:
the poor have freedom to choose, they choose poor apparently. If they didn't choose poor, they would find a job, find some education, it is free after all. I wonder how an illegal aliean can come here and work in 15 minutes, yet our poor just can't seem to find a job.
The poor and unable to find work are kept out of work by more factors than choice. Have you met anyone looking for work who is poor? It's terribly difficult. Worse if they have no home and\or are living in terrible conditions.
It's easier to hire illegal aliens, because you don't have to keep them on your books either. And why would you?
how is it detrimental in anyway helping the poor to the point where they are employable?lowing wrote:
Yup they have a choice, they chose to drop out of school, they chose to not better themselves through hard work or even an attempt at it. THey chose, sink so deep that they can not pull themselves out. They had a choice, and they made it.TheAussieReaper wrote:
They have no freedom to choose lowing. Education is NOT free. And the illegal aliens get jobs easily in the US because they are treated very poorly, work less than minimum wage and work huge hours.lowing wrote:
the poor have freedom to choose, they choose poor apparently. If they didn't choose poor, they would find a job, find some education, it is free after all. I wonder how an illegal aliean can come here and work in 15 minutes, yet our poor just can't seem to find a job.
The poor and unable to find work are kept out of work by more factors than choice. Have you met anyone looking for work who is poor? It's terribly difficult. Worse if they have no home and\or are living in terrible conditions.
It's easier to hire illegal aliens, because you don't have to keep them on your books either. And why would you?
You mean, 16 year old kids do not drop out of achool on their own accord, they are forced out by our govt, who refuses to educate them?Varegg wrote:
Sounds so simple when you put it like that ... sorry to break it to you lowing but really people doesn't make those choices because they want to be dropouts or because they want to be poor ...lowing wrote:
Yup they have a choice, they chose to drop out of school, they chose to not better themselves through hard work or even an attempt at it. THey chose, sink so deep that they can not pull themselves out. They had a choice, and they made it.TheAussieReaper wrote:
They have no freedom to choose lowing. Education is NOT free. And the illegal aliens get jobs easily in the US because they are treated very poorly, work less than minimum wage and work huge hours.
The poor and unable to find work are kept out of work by more factors than choice. Have you met anyone looking for work who is poor? It's terribly difficult. Worse if they have no home and\or are living in terrible conditions.
It's easier to hire illegal aliens, because you don't have to keep them on your books either. And why would you?
In certain cases yes ...lowing wrote:
You mean, 16 year old kids do not drop out of achool on their own accord, they are forced out by our govt, who refuses to educate them?Varegg wrote:
Sounds so simple when you put it like that ... sorry to break it to you lowing but really people doesn't make those choices because they want to be dropouts or because they want to be poor ...lowing wrote:
Yup they have a choice, they chose to drop out of school, they chose to not better themselves through hard work or even an attempt at it. THey chose, sink so deep that they can not pull themselves out. They had a choice, and they made it.
Because dropping out of school is a simple yes\no scenario for everybody.lowing wrote:
Yup they have a choice, they chose to drop out of school, they chose to not better themselves through hard work or even an attempt at it. THey chose, sink so deep that they can not pull themselves out. They had a choice, and they made it.
GIVING them my money is not making them employable. Providing service that are already in place that they d onot take advantage of, is what makes them unemployable. Believe it or not, an effort on your part is usually required for success in any endevour.FatherTed wrote:
how is it detrimental in anyway helping the poor to the point where they are employable?lowing wrote:
Yup they have a choice, they chose to drop out of school, they chose to not better themselves through hard work or even an attempt at it. THey chose, sink so deep that they can not pull themselves out. They had a choice, and they made it.TheAussieReaper wrote:
They have no freedom to choose lowing. Education is NOT free. And the illegal aliens get jobs easily in the US because they are treated very poorly, work less than minimum wage and work huge hours.
The poor and unable to find work are kept out of work by more factors than choice. Have you met anyone looking for work who is poor? It's terribly difficult. Worse if they have no home and\or are living in terrible conditions.
It's easier to hire illegal aliens, because you don't have to keep them on your books either. And why would you?
the middle lower class is not the poor, they earn, even so they also live by their choices.TheAussieReaper wrote:
Because dropping out of school is a simple yes\no scenario for everybody.lowing wrote:
Yup they have a choice, they chose to drop out of school, they chose to not better themselves through hard work or even an attempt at it. THey chose, sink so deep that they can not pull themselves out. They had a choice, and they made it.
"Hi, I'm poverty. Care to let me enter your life, move out into a garbage can, grow old together?"
And your missing again that by poor driving the economy, we're more talking about the middle-lower classes. But go ahead and stick a knife into the homeless and derelict.
Once someone becomes homeless etc, it becomes 10fold harder to get employed - employers quite obviously don't want workers with no fixed address.lowing wrote:
GIVING them my money is not making them employable. Providing service that are already in place that they d onot take advantage of, is what makes them unemployable. Believe it or not, an effort on your part is usually required for success in any endevour.FatherTed wrote:
how is it detrimental in anyway helping the poor to the point where they are employable?lowing wrote:
Yup they have a choice, they chose to drop out of school, they chose to not better themselves through hard work or even an attempt at it. THey chose, sink so deep that they can not pull themselves out. They had a choice, and they made it.
Me paying for subsidized housing maintains a status quo. The poor ain't gunna better themselves because shit, what they have is already paid for.FatherTed wrote:
Once someone becomes homeless etc, it becomes 10fold harder to get employed - employers quite obviously don't want workers with no fixed address.lowing wrote:
GIVING them my money is not making them employable. Providing service that are already in place that they d onot take advantage of, is what makes them unemployable. Believe it or not, an effort on your part is usually required for success in any endevour.FatherTed wrote:
how is it detrimental in anyway helping the poor to the point where they are employable?
You paying towards things like subsidized/state housing helps in that respect. You can't just leave a important % of a potential workforce unemployed, because of their situation. Bettering the people in a country betters the country, and for all you actually care; betters then economy, and in turn, you!
Quit having such a black and white view of things.
Wanna avoid a 20 page thread, then admit that most people are not "victims", admit that they deserve the results of their decisions. and that the poor is not the driving force of the fuckin' economy.Varegg wrote:
^^ Nah ... this topic has a good 20+ pages to before we reach that stage Aussie ...
Last edited by lowing (2009-01-22 06:14:51)
I'll admit it the day you are homeless because you lost your house, your family and work over something you couldn't control yourself ... that day when nobody will employ you and you totally understand why i will admit you deserve the situation you are in ...lowing wrote:
Wanna avoid a 20 page thread, then admit that most people are not "victims", admit that they deserve the results of their decisions. and that the poor is not the driving force of the fuckin' economy.Varegg wrote:
^^ Nah ... this topic has a good 20+ pages to before we reach that stage Aussie ...
Admit that all of this money you insist on GIVING the poor to spend to "stimulate" growth, is MY money. Admit that they produced nothing in excahnge for it, so it is, in essence ME that is "stimulating" the economy because I am the one who is producing that earns the money that is being spent.
Ain't gunna happen is it?
Ok so you will not admit facts, unless I am poor? Makes sense I guess.Varegg wrote:
I'll admit it the day you are homeless because you lost your house, your family and work over something you couldn't control yourself ... that day when nobody will employ you and you totally understand why i will admit you deserve the situation you are in ...lowing wrote:
Wanna avoid a 20 page thread, then admit that most people are not "victims", admit that they deserve the results of their decisions. and that the poor is not the driving force of the fuckin' economy.Varegg wrote:
^^ Nah ... this topic has a good 20+ pages to before we reach that stage Aussie ...
Admit that all of this money you insist on GIVING the poor to spend to "stimulate" growth, is MY money. Admit that they produced nothing in excahnge for it, so it is, in essence ME that is "stimulating" the economy because I am the one who is producing that earns the money that is being spent.
Ain't gunna happen is it?
Last edited by lowing (2009-01-22 06:21:21)
Think you'll stay that way?lowing wrote:
However, I am sorry, it will not happen, since I am marketable.
Yer right, I am taking a big gamble that they will not build a maintenance free airplane in my life time.TheAussieReaper wrote:
Think you'll stay that way?lowing wrote:
However, I am sorry, it will not happen, since I am marketable.
Not everything is certain.
Last edited by lowing (2009-01-22 06:25:05)
Dont make the mistake thinking your posts are facts lowing because they are not, they are your opinion ...lowing wrote:
Ok so you will not admit facts, unless I am poor? Makes sense I guess.Varegg wrote:
I'll admit it the day you are homeless because you lost your house, your family and work over something you couldn't control yourself ... that day when nobody will employ you and you totally understand why i will admit you deserve the situation you are in ...lowing wrote:
Wanna avoid a 20 page thread, then admit that most people are not "victims", admit that they deserve the results of their decisions. and that the poor is not the driving force of the fuckin' economy.
Admit that all of this money you insist on GIVING the poor to spend to "stimulate" growth, is MY money. Admit that they produced nothing in excahnge for it, so it is, in essence ME that is "stimulating" the economy because I am the one who is producing that earns the money that is being spent.
Ain't gunna happen is it?
However, I am sorry, it will not happen, since I am marketable, I earn a living, I pay my bills, and I blame no one for my decisions, and I do not pawn my responsibilities off on anyone.
Well with less people flying now a days and I"m sure you're not the only person out there that can build an airplane. Hell they might even do it for cheaper..lowing wrote:
Yer right, I am taking a big gamble that they will not build a maintenance free airplane in my life time.TheAussieReaper wrote:
Think you'll stay that way?lowing wrote:
However, I am sorry, it will not happen, since I am marketable.
Not everything is certain.
Why are you avoiding the rest of that post by the way? Don't wanna admit that the the earners and not the poor are the true stimulating force in an economy?