3D Modeling graphics card ideas

2009-02-10 08:58:13

#1

r2zoo: Knowledge is power, guard it well; +126|6860|Michigan, USA

Long story short. Sisters PC is having some issues with CATIA(sp) and she wants to speed it up. My first indication was the graphics(possibly mobo) as the fault.

Specs:
Asus M2V-TVM(not the best I know)
AMD Athlon 64 5000+
2 Gigs DDR2 800@667
Nvidia 7600GT
500w Psu(Antec smartpower if I'm not mistaken)

So I'm looking at a new card for the rig, and possibly a new mobo as well, but I don't know much about modeling, so I have no idea which card would benefit her more. Price range is approx $150. Doesn't have to be a top of the line machine or none of that, just get a bit more speed out of the program. Keep in mind, she still wants to be able to play games(mostly Sims 2, some MMOs, etc).

Any recommendations are appreciated.

2009-02-10 09:18:55

#2

Freezer7Pro: I don't come here a lot anymore.; +1,447|6461|Winland

"Workstation" cards are just normal gaming cards that are re-flashed with another BIOS. The special workstation cards died when unified shaders came along. Get an 8/9800GT or 8800GTS/9800GTX.

The idea of any hi-fi system is to reproduce the source material as faithfully as possible, and to deliberately add distortion to everything you hear (due to amplifier deficiencies) because it sounds 'nice' is simply not high fidelity. If that is what you want to hear then there is no problem with that, but by adding so much additional material (by way of harmonics and intermodulation) you have a tailored sound system, not a hi-fi. - Rod Elliot, ESP

2009-02-10 09:21:01

#3

r2zoo: Knowledge is power, guard it well; +126|6860|Michigan, USA

Freezer7Pro wrote:
"Workstation" cards are just normal gaming cards that are re-flashed with another BIOS. The special workstation cards died when unified shaders came along. Get an 8/9800GT or 8800GTS/9800GTX.

Indeed what I was looking at, however, anything Nvidia offers over Ati that benefits for modeling? Well, aside from the pile of crap that is Atis drivers(as much as I love my 4850...)

2009-02-10 09:45:12

#4

TheEternalPessimist: Wibble; +412|6884|Mhz

Unless the software she's using makes use of CUDA any high end card from either manufacturer will be fine, 3d modeling is fairly CPU based anyway.

2009-02-10 09:56:44

#5

r2zoo: Knowledge is power, guard it well; +126|6860|Michigan, USA

TheEternalPessimist wrote:
Unless the software she's using makes use of CUDA any high end card from either manufacturer will be fine, 3d modeling is fairly CPU based anyway.

Understood, I can figure out graphics card in the gaming arena, but not so much modeling. Looking more towards the 9800 range because I like Nvidias drivers more and fits in the price range. Cpu should do fine for her purpose I think, not like shes doing serious work at home on it, so Im not gonna suggest she go all out on a quad core or whatnot

2009-02-10 09:58:21

#6

TheEternalPessimist: Wibble; +412|6884|Mhz

TBH the RAM being so epicly slow isn't helping, why is it underclocked anyway?

EDIT: Nvm, just looked up the mobo

Last edited by TheEternalPessimist (2009-02-10 09:59:38)

2009-02-10 10:13:17

#7

max: Vela Incident; +1,652|6831|NYC / Hamburg

Does CATIA even have GPU acceleration? Doesn't look like it's rendering any fancy 3d models covered in fur that would require a dedicated mid to high-end GPU.

For more speed a new CPU seems like the best bet.

_{once upon a midnight dreary, while i pron surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of ' hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, " give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404.}

2009-02-12 11:43:33

#8

r2zoo: Knowledge is power, guard it well; +126|6860|Michigan, USA

max wrote:
Does CATIA even have GPU acceleration? Doesn't look like it's rendering any fancy 3d models covered in fur that would require a dedicated mid to high-end GPU.

For more speed a new CPU seems like the best bet.

Wel GPU effects some of the realtime manipulation from what ive read, but nothing major. Although graphics upgrade in general would be a plus for her regardless of modeling. Anyways, looks like Im gonna upgrade her board and graphics in one go. Upgrading the cpu and board right now proves to be out of her price range, figure the least I could do is get the ram up to proper speed, and get some more ram in there, as well as a board that gives better performence. That and I can't justify a new cpu, as she just bought the current one a couple months ago, and it works. Graphics would give her better performence in her games, so either way she'll be happy.

Upgrade this thing one step at a time I suppose, although hers is still outpacing mine

2009-02-12 11:56:56

#9

rdx-fx: ...; +955|6855

For CATIA hardware certification , take a look at http://www.3ds.com/support/hardware-cer … /overview/

For Nvidia drivers that Dassault Systems thinks should work for CATIA, http://www.nvidia.com/page/partner_cert … ivers.html

There are still artificially enforced differences between the Quadro cards and the GeForce cards.

Personally, I've got a Lenovo T61p with the Quadro FX 570M card in it. (yes, card - not built in). Runs Solidworks 2004 (Also a Dassault Systems program), Pro/Engineer wildfire 4.0, and AutoCAD 2004. Doesn't really help you much, other than to illustrate a possible nice gift idea for your sister.
The newer T-series has the crappy ATi video instead of the Nvidia Quadro, so.. I'd go with the W700 if I were looking at buying today.

Or, do some research, figure out which bios/firmware you can use to upgrade a GeForce to a Quadro, and just go that route. Last time I checked, it was just a bios/firmware flash (2004?). Time before that required a bios flash and soldering a couple of resistors on the card (1999?). Anymore, I'd just get a laptop with a Quadro card included in the package - they tend to be factory-tested to play nice-nice with CAD software, and are in turn somewhat supported by make, model, and name by the big CAD software companies.

Last edited by rdx-fx (2009-02-12 12:08:57)

2009-02-12 12:13:17

#10

rdx-fx: ...; +955|6855

r2zoo wrote:
Freezer7Pro wrote:
"Workstation" cards are just normal gaming cards that are re-flashed with another BIOS. The special workstation cards died when unified shaders came along. Get an 8/9800GT or 8800GTS/9800GTX.
Indeed what I was looking at, however, anything Nvidia offers over Ati that benefits for modeling? Well, aside from the pile of crap that is Atis drivers(as much as I love my 4850...)

Having the video drivers puke in the middle of a multiple hour rendering job, is a recurring nightmare of anyone who uses CAD software.

Same for a large project file getting corrupted because a shoddy video driver pukes and blue-screens the system.

Neither is fun, and both tend to happen more frequently when using game-card drivers for CAD systems. ATi being worse than Nvidia for such offenses, in my experience.

2009-02-12 13:58:30

#11

CrazeD: Member; +368|6937|Maine

nVidia has CUDA which is a huge benefit for 3D work. Check out the 9800GX2's, they're very nice for 3D modeling.

2009-02-12 13:59:12

#12

Wallpaper: ☺; +303|6258|The pool

You could also try swapping GPUs, just to see if theres much of an improvement between her 7600GT and your 4850. With a quickie google, it doesnt look like CATIA is CUDA enabled, so it would probably benefit more from a CPU upgrade (or OC?) than GPU upgrade

My flickr

2009-02-12 14:26:08

#13

Freezer7Pro: I don't come here a lot anymore.; +1,447|6461|Winland

rdx-fx wrote:
r2zoo wrote:
Freezer7Pro wrote:
"Workstation" cards are just normal gaming cards that are re-flashed with another BIOS. The special workstation cards died when unified shaders came along. Get an 8/9800GT or 8800GTS/9800GTX.
Indeed what I was looking at, however, anything Nvidia offers over Ati that benefits for modeling? Well, aside from the pile of crap that is Atis drivers(as much as I love my 4850...)
Having the video drivers puke in the middle of a multiple hour rendering job, is a recurring nightmare of anyone who uses CAD software.

Same for a large project file getting corrupted because a shoddy video driver pukes and blue-screens the system.

Neither is fun, and both tend to happen more frequently when using game-card drivers for CAD systems. ATi being worse than Nvidia for such offenses, in my experience.

With my graphics cards being under full CUDA load 24/7, I have only had one driver crash during the last 2-3 months.

The idea of any hi-fi system is to reproduce the source material as faithfully as possible, and to deliberately add distortion to everything you hear (due to amplifier deficiencies) because it sounds 'nice' is simply not high fidelity. If that is what you want to hear then there is no problem with that, but by adding so much additional material (by way of harmonics and intermodulation) you have a tailored sound system, not a hi-fi. - Rod Elliot, ESP

2009-02-12 14:59:30

#14

r2zoo: Knowledge is power, guard it well; +126|6860|Michigan, USA

rdx-fx wrote:
For CATIA hardware certification , take a look at http://www.3ds.com/support/hardware-cer … /overview/

For Nvidia drivers that Dassault Systems thinks should work for CATIA, http://www.nvidia.com/page/partner_cert … ivers.html

There are still artificially enforced differences between the Quadro cards and the GeForce cards.

Personally, I've got a Lenovo T61p with the Quadro FX 570M card in it. (yes, card - not built in). Runs Solidworks 2004 (Also a Dassault Systems program), Pro/Engineer wildfire 4.0, and AutoCAD 2004. Doesn't really help you much, other than to illustrate a possible nice gift idea for your sister.
The newer T-series has the crappy ATi video instead of the Nvidia Quadro, so.. I'd go with the W700 if I were looking at buying today.

Or, do some research, figure out which bios/firmware you can use to upgrade a GeForce to a Quadro, and just go that route. Last time I checked, it was just a bios/firmware flash (2004?). Time before that required a bios flash and soldering a couple of resistors on the card (1999?). Anymore, I'd just get a laptop with a Quadro card included in the package - they tend to be factory-tested to play nice-nice with CAD software, and are in turn somewhat supported by make, model, and name by the big CAD software companies.

Erm...lost me. But as said in the intial post, this isn't a serious rig, just looking to get a bit better performence out of a basic PC, not build a modeling system. A new laptop far exceeds the $150~ price range as well.

CrazeD wrote:
nVidia has CUDA which is a huge benefit for 3D work. Check out the 9800GX2's, they're very nice for 3D modeling.

Once again, bit of overkill for her application. A single 9800GT is what Im looking at currently, fits in the price range and is a fair step up from the previous card.

Wallpaper wrote:
You could also try swapping GPUs, just to see if theres much of an improvement between her 7600GT and your 4850. With a quickie google, it doesnt look like CATIA is CUDA enabled, so it would probably benefit more from a CPU upgrade (or OC?) than GPU upgrade

Been contemplating that, I just dont feel like tearing down my rig and playing with drivers just to test it out

2009-02-12 15:02:09

#15

TheEternalPessimist: Wibble; +412|6884|Mhz

r2zoo wrote:
Wallpaper wrote:
You could also try swapping GPUs, just to see if there's much of an improvement between her 7600GT and your 4850. With a quickie google, it doesn't look like CATIA is CUDA enabled, so it would probably benefit more from a CPU upgrade (or OC?) than GPU upgrade
Been contemplating that, I just dont feel like tearing down my rig and playing with drivers just to test it out

It's a 60 second job, hardly dismantling your PC lol.

2009-02-12 19:18:57

#16

r2zoo: Knowledge is power, guard it well; +126|6860|Michigan, USA

TheEternalPessimist wrote:
r2zoo wrote:
Wallpaper wrote:
You could also try swapping GPUs, just to see if there's much of an improvement between her 7600GT and your 4850. With a quickie google, it doesn't look like CATIA is CUDA enabled, so it would probably benefit more from a CPU upgrade (or OC?) than GPU upgrade
Been contemplating that, I just dont feel like tearing down my rig and playing with drivers just to test it out
It's a 60 second job, hardly dismantling your PC lol.

Not for me, have to clear out my desk, pop the card out, run it upstairs, spend 20 minutes getting into my sisters pc case which has arleary cut me badly a couple times, and that not even the fun time I get to spend playing with Atis drivers

2009-02-12 21:24:34

#17

TopHat01: Limitless; +117|6169|CA

r2zoo wrote:
A single 9800GT is what Im looking at currently, fits in the price range and is a fair step up from the previous card.

That's what I use for gaming, it's a great card for the price they're selling it at, practically a steal.

Go for it, you won't regret it.

Check out my YouTube channel

2009-02-12 21:39:24

#18

Scorpion0x17: can detect anyone's visible post count...; +691|7030|Cambridge (UK)

*hint @ those that think workstation GPUs are just gaming GPUs with a higher price tag*

Most professional CAD/Modelling applications use OpenGL.

Most games use DirectX.

2009-02-12 21:48:41

#19

Catbox: forgiveness; +505|6980

workstation cards are great... way expensive though... You would be fine with a q6600(or equivalent) and a 4850 or 4870 ati(or nvidia equivalent)
I use 3dmax/Vue6/Bryce6 on an older system and other than longer render times they run fine...

found this also....

So what justifies the enormous price difference? The majority of the costs result from customer support and driver development. No OpenGL workstation user is allowed to be left alone with his problems, where it's the complete opposite for the gamer. Additionally, it takes a long time before OpenGL drivers can be certified as "stable", so the manufacturers pass these increased costs on to the customer. Why does no-one complain? That's easy: workstations for engineers and designers make a considerable contribution to creating value in the production process. Procurement costs are of little importance, since the workstations are a business expense, and mostly pay for themselves within a short time.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ope … ,1269.html

Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2009-02-12 21:49:28)

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BF2S Forums 3D Modeling graphics card ideas

Freezer7Pro wrote:

TheEternalPessimist wrote:

max wrote:

r2zoo wrote:

Freezer7Pro wrote:

rdx-fx wrote:

r2zoo wrote:

Freezer7Pro wrote:

rdx-fx wrote:

CrazeD wrote:

Wallpaper wrote:

r2zoo wrote:

Wallpaper wrote:

TheEternalPessimist wrote:

r2zoo wrote:

Wallpaper wrote:

r2zoo wrote:

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