BF2S Forums What has the greatest importance?

Knowledge of the map gets me to the right spot...

intelligence tells me which of the right spots is where I need to be...

and in the end, wherever your knowledge and smarts take you, you need to take them before they take you.

I was going to mention that they were effectively the same but I wanted my post to be short and succint.

So fuck, twitch reflexes and prescient aiming are the way to own.

jord wrote:

If you cant point a gun in a shooting game then your fucked.I voted skill because even if you know the map off by heart ,know were your enemies are if you cant hit them with bullets then knowledge wont get you very far.

Can't fault the logic.

All 3 make a good player, having one or two only makes you average.

No further comment.

jord wrote:

If you cant point a gun in a shooting game then your fucked.I voted skill because even if you know the map off by heart ,know were your enemies are if you cant hit them with bullets then knowledge wont get you very far.

You are correct, but chew on this, your skill is inhernt and although it does increase with useage, it doesn't ramp up as fast as your knowledge once you start playing a new game, yet everyone's spm start out poorly and then increase over time.  I think that is mainly the knowledge effect.

Tin_Whisker wrote:

jord wrote:

If you cant point a gun in a shooting game then your fucked.I voted skill because even if you know the map off by heart ,know were your enemies are if you cant hit them with bullets then knowledge wont get you very far.

You are correct, but chew on this, your skill is inhernt and although it does increase with useage, it doesn't ramp up as fast as your knowledge once you start playing a new game, yet everyone's spm start out poorly and then increase over time.  I think that is mainly the knowledge effect.

In the context you've stated, knowledge and skill are one and the same. They mutually translate, moreso than the threadstarters concepts do.

Actually you need all 3 to be successful.Skill.KNowledge and good judgement are the 3 keys to anything.Take one of them away and your about to get into big trouble.That's the first thing you learn in ground school when you first enter pilot training.

OK let me try to explain the three better.  Yes they are all related.  But let us disect:

Knowledge:  Without knowledge would be like the first time you played a new map with new weapons.  Like the first day you played special forces or Euro force.  No idea of the capabilities of the weapons no clue on the spots to avoid in a map, or not knowing the 'back way' to a flag etc.  Do you remember getting own'd by the guy who's played that map before?

Intelligence:  Thinking. Example - When a tank rolls upand smokes you,  knowing when to respawn and fight or switch to a different spawn point.  Knowing what would be more effecitive in a situation, spawn as spec. ops. or spawn as AT?  That tank is expecting me to come up behind him from the right, but if I run to the left....

Skill:  pure execution - two guys run into each other rounding a corner, do you kill him or does he kill you?  You spawn and immediately start getting shot from behind, however, your skill kicks in and you spin prone and cap that mofo.

nice thread.  good questions.

first off, if you've never played the game (and have no knowledge) then you will get owned by anybody.  its the same with all games.  until you learn the maps, weapons and tactics you don't have much of a chance.  how can you apply your intelligence to make a strategy if you don't know the game.  therefore, knowledge would be by far the most important thing when for a beginner but subsides after you get about 10-20 hours.  honestly, instead of knowledge i would write experience.  basically how many hours you have played.  1500 hours vs. 200 hours.  if this were the case then i would rate them as follows:

1) skill:  i'm a pretty smart guy (please don't flame me for saying this...i just am).  graduated ivy league with honors.  great chess player.  high iq.  analytic mind...etc.  however, i have never mastered the art of dominating other players online.  basically i was not born with the amazing hand-eye coordination that others possess.  never been able to master the c4 jump throw or the prone jump...blah...blah...blah.  Another factor in this is reaction time.  i always feel a split second slower than the great players.  overall, in my online gaming experience the best i've ever been at shooters is maybe a little bit above average.
2) intelligence:  since i'm a smart guy, i play the game to my strengths.  i use armor.  i have learned how to command well: spot where i need to, drop supplies in the right place, will single handedly defend my team's base with c4 and maybe armor if its available (and by the way there is not nearly enough in the command ability to make use of a smart commander).  i know where/what to spawn.  i have learned to make use of the minimap and main map to be aware of everything going on.  however, with all of these i would rather have deadly aim than the strategic side.
3) knowledge/experience (distant third): i think that while the learning curve is steep, after about 200 hours you aren't going to get much better.  all things being equal the more experienced player will win but overall it doesn't make that much of a difference.

Intelligence is something you can't really learn from the game. Skill is something that i think is important but unfortunatly one of the most important things in online games is Knowledge of maps and exploits so that you have the upper advantage.

It can go from knowing the J10 is better than everything to knowing those stupid Karkand spots. Vodnik jumping and all that crap.

For me it's all about Skill and Intelligence, for the competitive out there it's all about Knowledge. It's sad really, but if they are sad enough to find all these exploits i guess they should use it but it's satisfying nobody tbh.

Nice post superfly_cox.  Very well thought out.  I have to say however that you are discounting knowledge (or exp as you call it.  I guess I hark back to the days of D&D; but I digress) a little too much. 

Knowledge is of supreme import.  If you look at just about any players spm graph, you will notice a linear progression of increasing spm.  If knowledge was as invaluable as you say, the curve would be moe af a log starting low and increasing at a fast clip (as the player gets to know the game) and then tailing flat rather quickly.  All graphs of players spm should theoretically eventually end up with this appearence, but it seems the graphs are much more linear than you would think.  This shows that as players gain knowledge over time their spm increases. 

We know it can't be an increase in intelligence.  You could argue the skill level is increasing due to practice, but I beleive it is primarilly a function of knowledge (and experience).

I'd say:
1. Knowledge - you know it in your heart you own those freaking noobs. Why? b/c of experience!
2. Intelligence - If you face a great twitchy skilled stupid player,  you will win.
3. Skill - yes it is important, you must be able to execute properly. This maybe 1st if we were playing Unreal Tournament or Medal of Honor or CounterStrike; but not in BF2.

What pisses you off more?  When you get owned by some one who outsmarted you or when you get owned b/c you weren't fast enough or good enough?

I think that Intelligence is much more important than knowledge or skill.  I'm not saying skill is unnecesarry, or that you shouldn't bother knowing the maps, but playing intelligently can overcome a large skill deficit.  An intelligent player knows when to attack, when to retreat, and when to hide.  Predicting what your enemy will do is a huge advantage.  Setting a perfect ambush means you don't have to be able to get perfect headshots all the time.  Sure you need to be able to hit them, but if you're in the right spot, the amount of skill you have is not that important.  Even little things like if you run around the corner of the building to escape an enemy, can you make a pretty good guess if he's going to follow you?  Is he going to try and cut you off on the other side?  Will he stand his ground and wait for you to come back out?  I don't know how many times I've killed guys chasing me by tossing a grenade behind me after I've left their field of view.  At the same time, I've killed a lot of people by correctly guessing that they'd try to circle around a building and pre-emptively aiming where they'd come out.

My rankings:

1) Intelligence
2) Knowledge
3) Skill

As much as I would like to think otherwise, skill is all that matters. You could know everything down to the smallest pixel, but it would be useless to you without a decent reaction time.

Last edited by Jakethe8lf (2006-03-28 12:51:52)