Bullshit.. it was actually pretty popular to complain about it.oug wrote:
well someone sure as hell did
alternatively, nobody complained when it got passed...
2 1/2 years ago Kmarion wrote:
Silly Mom! You may not believe in guns...but guns believe in YOU."I was terrified," Lundeby's mother said. "There were guns, and I don't allow guns around my children. I don't believe in guns."
Do you have any idea what an epically stupid statement that was?Ioan92 wrote:
Only in America.
People still have not stopped complaining about it getting passed.oug wrote:
well someone sure as hell did
alternatively, nobody complained when it got passed... much the opposite really... I remember telling people this would bite them in the ass big time but back then they were all certain it would never touch them
What did he have against Purdue?United States Attorney David Capp
Northern District of Indiana
5400 Federal Plaza, Suite 1500
Hammond, IN 46320
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: David Capp
March 6, 2009 PHONE: (219) 937-5500
Fax: (219) 852-2770
The United States Attorney's Office announced that late yesterday evening, a juvenile was arrested pursuant to a federal warrant. The arrest stems from a false bomb threat directed to Purdue University on February 15 and similar threats directed to schools.
The FBI, the Purdue University Police Department, and the Tippecanoe County Prosecutor’s Office conducted an extensive investigation into this matter resulting in last night’s arrest. The investigation is ongoing.
Under federal law, all proceedings involving persons under age 18 are sealed.
Here is the update you have all been waiting for. You should be pissed off that the Patriot Act is being used against our own citizens. 4Chan needs to bring down the Patriot Act. Good luck Tyrone.
I really don't know. The closest thing I've found are the Libertarian and Constitution parties. Neither is a potent political force, and the Libertarian party is socially liberal (not very good for many conservatives' views).Diesel_dyk wrote:
That is one issue I still find confusing, if you are truly a conservative who believes in small government, then you really should be a strong supporter of individual rights, especially due process rights. The bill of rights is the first line of defense against big govt.
Where have all the real conservatives gone in this country??????
Gotta side with Kerry here. They had a warrant. He's in jail, pending court proceedings.ATG wrote:
He is a minor.Kmarion wrote:
He isn't going to get due process? How is this different from Youssef Megahed or the fort dix guys? .. all of them received due process.
BTW "someone stole my IP" ...
Last edited by FEOS (2009-05-07 03:49:58)
Read page one all over till the end.Deadmonkiefart wrote:
Do you have any idea what an epically stupid statement that was?Ioan92 wrote:
Only in America.
Oh right... the loud fat guy and his short gay friend. That sure must've made an impression... No I'm talking about real complaining. Not internet style. Like when Athens got torched a few months ago? Hell that was just about police brutality! If they ever tried passing a law like the PA around here we'd burn down the Parliament with everyone in it!Kmarion wrote:
Bullshit.. it was actually pretty popular to complain about it.oug wrote:
well someone sure as hell did
alternatively, nobody complained when it got passed...2 1/2 years ago Kmarion wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wFDTAUXm0Q
Last edited by oug (2009-05-07 04:48:46)
Murder is complaining, got it! There were plenty of people really complaining. You need to also consider the context in which it was first passed. It was VERY controversial and we made them rewrite it to protect some key civil liberties. That is what real complaining does. Educate yourself, look at the countless revisions. We didn't even have to assassinate anyone in order to get them to change it. Maybe it didn't filter over to you. Or maybe you just ignored it. We've also had riots over police brutality . Get over yourself, nobody is impressed.oug wrote:
Oh right... the loud fat guy and his short gay friend. That sure must've made an impression... No I'm talking about real complaining. Not internet style. Like when Athens got torched a few months ago? Hell that was just about police brutality! If they ever tried passing a law like the PA around here we'd burn down the Parliament with everyone in it!Kmarion wrote:
Bullshit.. it was actually pretty popular to complain about it.oug wrote:
well someone sure as hell did
alternatively, nobody complained when it got passed...2 1/2 years ago Kmarion wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wFDTAUXm0Q
edit: just watched the video again and actually they're not complaining about the Patriot Act at all! For them the Kenyan guy did his job! And if we were all snitches who don't mind their own fucking business and instead go out and spy on people without any reason like him the world would be a better place.
Seems that didn't work then. Or maybe there were more key civil liberties you didn't think needed protecting. Oh well, I guess the Founding Fathers won't mind.Kmarion wrote:
It was VERY controversial and we made them rewrite it to protect some key civil liberties.
Process under the patriot act maybe.Kmarion wrote:
He isn't going to get due process? How is this different from Youssef Megahed or the fort dix guys? .. all of them received due process.
BTW "someone stole my IP" ...
No, it means he is suspected of doing something wrong. That's why there's an investigation.Varegg wrote:
Plenty of people once said that the patriot act was a okay because if you did nothing wrong you would have nothing to fear ... so this means he must have done something wrong!
Which key civil liberties aren't protected, oug?oug wrote:
Seems that didn't work then. Or maybe there were more key civil liberties you didn't think needed protecting. Oh well, I guess the Founding Fathers won't mind.Kmarion wrote:
It was VERY controversial and we made them rewrite it to protect some key civil liberties.
Guns are a myth.Mutantbear wrote:
I don't believe in guns
what a dumb statement, you could say I don't want my kids shooting or handling guns but I don't want them in my house because I don't believe in them.
I dunno ask Kman (was his phrase)FEOS wrote:
Which key civil liberties aren't protected, oug?oug wrote:
Seems that didn't work then. Or maybe there were more key civil liberties you didn't think needed protecting. Oh well, I guess the Founding Fathers won't mind.Kmarion wrote:
It was VERY controversial and we made them rewrite it to protect some key civil liberties.
ATG: How is the Constitution no longer the law of the land?
You have a a right under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to a speedy trial. You must have charges levied against you in a court of law. You must be able to address your accusers. Through discovery you or your attornies have a legal right to examine all evidence being used against you.FEOS wrote:
Which key civil liberties aren't protected, oug?oug wrote:
Seems that didn't work then. Or maybe there were more key civil liberties you didn't think needed protecting. Oh well, I guess the Founding Fathers won't mind.Kmarion wrote:
It was VERY controversial and we made them rewrite it to protect some key civil liberties.
ATG: How is the Constitution no longer the law of the land?
Capp and the FBI initially declined to talk about the case, citing a gag order and law that prohibits disclosure of information in federal cases involving juveniles.Responding after nationwide media attention following the story, the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Indiana said in a news release that the charge is based on federal law prohibiting bomb and death threats.
“This charge is unrelated to the Patriot Act,” U.S. Attorney David Capp said.
Capp and the FBI initially declined to talk about the case, citing a gag order and law that prohibits disclosure of information in federal cases involving juveniles.
But in Thursday’s release, he said, the arrest stems from a false bomb threat directed at Perdue University and similar threats to other schools.
MoreIt’s the false TV news report heard ’round the world. Raleigh, North Carolina’s WRAL-5 reported last week that a 16-year-old bomb hoax suspect was hauled out of his mother’s home by federal agents, and is now being held without any legal rights on the authority of the 2001 USA PATRIOT Act, which “supersedes the Constitution.”
This tale of injustice has since shown up on Drudge, Digg, Reddit, and a thousand blogs and shoot-from-the-hip mailing lists. The boy’s name is rising on the Google Trends index. Radio show host Alex Jones interviewed the boy’s mother on Tuesday, and pundits on the left and right are seizing on the story to rail against the government’s unfettered power to make an innocent citizen disappear at will. Some outraged reports are claiming the teenager hasn’t even been charged with a crime.
The arrest of the teenager is real enough. FBI agents investigating a February 15 bomb hoax that evacuated the mechanical engineering building at Purdue University traced the phone call to the juvenile’s Oxford, North Carolina home, served his mother with a search warrant and arrested the teen. They issued a press release about it, omitting the suspect’s name. That was on March 5, and he’s been held without bail in Indiana ever since.
The claim that the boy is a victim of USA PATRIOT, though, appears to have been cut from whole cloth. While there’s plenty to criticize in that post-9/11 law, it doesn’t contain any provision that abrogates a defendant’s right to a trial. It’s also not responsible for making it illegal to phone in a bomb threat. That’s been a federal crime since 1939.
The boy’s mother, Annette Lundeby, has even acknowledged in interviews that her son has been formally charged, has a court-appointed attorney, and has already made appearances in front of a judge. No military tribunals here. On Alex Jones, Lundeby seemed to more-or-less admit that the USA PATRIOT connection was something she dreamed up on her own.
Jones: And they said they are charging him under the Patriot Act, so –
Lundeby: They’re not saying that, but that’s exactly what they’re doing.
Jones: Well, it’s in the newspaper.
Lundeby: All their actions point towards that. But they don’t deny it either.
It’s impossible not to empathize with this woman — a widow who saw her boy taken by rough federal agents and whisked to another state. Lundeby didn’t return a call from Threat Level, but she’s said she believes her son is innocent, and that he was with her, in church, at the time of the hoax. She says hackers framed her son by hijacking his internet IP address for a VOIP phone call to Purdue.
Caller ID spoofing seems more likely, if he really was framed. We’re not in a position to weigh the feds’ case, because — as in every federal prosecution of a minor — the file is under seal. That, too, has nothing to do with USA PATRIOT: It’s a provision of federal law intended to give juvenile defendants a clean slate when they reach adulthood.
And that’s the potential irony of the bogus reporting around this case. If the boy has the airtight alibi his mother describes, we’ll eventually know it: no prosecutor will take a case like that to trial, and some federal agents will rightfully find themselves in hot water. The feds have had the teenager’s computer for months, and they certainly know by now whether they have the right guy or not.
But if he’s guilty, he’ll cop a plea or lose at trial. And then everyone whose been spinning this case into a tale of federal storm troopers abusing a draconian anti-terror law will have succeeded only in denying a 16-year-old boy the fresh start that the justice system would have given him.
Either way, the USA PATRIOT Act still won’t trump the Constitution.