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2009-05-20 09:56:18
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6927|Πάϊ

lowing wrote:

Well since the poor by definition have no money, I will go out on a limb and say the rich spend more.

I have answered your question pound for pound, the rich spend more, and generate more. Given 100,000 rich people and 100,000 middle class and poor, the rich spend more, and create more opportunity for the rest of us.
Obviously you're playing dumb to avoid the issue but it won't save you. Yes, if you take one poor guy and one rich guy then sure, the rich spends more.

But like I said before, the rich are only 2% of the world's population, whereas the middle and lower class are about 70% if not more. So on a global scale, in total, who spends more?

In the USA you have about 300 million people right? Well with a rough estimate - just to prove the fucking point here - 1 million of them is considered rich, while the other 299 million are either middle class or poor. Who is an elected goverment supposed to please first? The majority of middle class folks or the rich two fucking percent?

lowing wrote:

Govt. is never the solution for anything, it never has been and never will be. Take the govt. controlled post office. Look at the head start it had in America, now compare it to the private sector companies UPS and Fed EX. Nothing more really needs to be said about govt. efficiency and control.
The success of a private corporation does not in any way reflect the success of a society or of a system of government unless that success has a direct impact on the entire workforce of said company or corporation. In other words, let's suppose that UPS delivers shit faster than USPS. Does UPS pay its workers more? Does it offer them the same amount of job security? Are its services priced the same as USPS's? What good is a company doing things better if there's nobody around capable of buying their services or products?
ƒ³
2009-05-20 11:12:53
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7059|USA

oug wrote:

lowing wrote:

Well since the poor by definition have no money, I will go out on a limb and say the rich spend more.

I have answered your question pound for pound, the rich spend more, and generate more. Given 100,000 rich people and 100,000 middle class and poor, the rich spend more, and create more opportunity for the rest of us.
Obviously you're playing dumb to avoid the issue but it won't save you. Yes, if you take one poor guy and one rich guy then sure, the rich spends more.

But like I said before, the rich are only 2% of the world's population, whereas the middle and lower class are about 70% if not more. So on a global scale, in total, who spends more?

In the USA you have about 300 million people right? Well with a rough estimate - just to prove the fucking point here - 1 million of them is considered rich, while the other 299 million are either middle class or poor. Who is an elected goverment supposed to please first? The majority of middle class folks or the rich two fucking percent?

lowing wrote:

Govt. is never the solution for anything, it never has been and never will be. Take the govt. controlled post office. Look at the head start it had in America, now compare it to the private sector companies UPS and Fed EX. Nothing more really needs to be said about govt. efficiency and control.
The success of a private corporation does not in any way reflect the success of a society or of a system of government unless that success has a direct impact on the entire workforce of said company or corporation. In other words, let's suppose that UPS delivers shit faster than USPS. Does UPS pay its workers more? Does it offer them the same amount of job security? Are its services priced the same as USPS's? What good is a company doing things better if there's nobody around capable of buying their services or products?
I see, so your point is 1,000,000,000 poor amd middle class people spend more money than a single rich person. Wow ya got me.

Here is another thought, that single rich guy provides more jobs and opportunity than all 1,000,000,000 of the poor or middle class.

Anotehr thought, if your brilliant deduction that 1,000,000,000 people can out spend a single rich guy, it is the rich guy that provided some of them jobs to do so. Also, not a single middle class or poor person can afford a jet, a 200,000 dollar car, a 1,000,000 dollar mansion. or an 80 foot yacht. Along with the people they employ to keep all of that shit running.

Uhh yeah UPS pays more
Uhhh yeah, UPS delivers shit faster
Uhh yeah UPS has job security

Uhhh yeah their prices are competitive, ( or they wouldn't be in business anyway)

govt. coddling is the only reason USPS is still operating. Only thing is, it operates with one hand tied behind its back with that same govt.s rope.

Last edited by lowing (2009-05-20 13:12:00)

2009-05-20 23:01:58
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|7089|Disaster Free Zone

lowing wrote:

I see, so your point is 1,000,000,000 poor amd middle class people spend more money than a single rich person. Wow ya got me.
More to the point the poor and middle classes will spend a much higher percentage of their money, which is better for the economy. Having huge amounts of money tkaen out of the economy and put into banks, shares, bonds etc, reduces spending and therefore jobs.

Here is another thought, that single rich guy provides more jobs and opportunity than all 1,000,000,000 of the poor or middle class.
So the ball player you were talking about before provides how many jobs?
The CEO of a company provides how many jobs?
Actors provide how many jobs?
The share market traders provide how many jobs?

The simple fact of the matter is most jobs come from small businesses, and most of these are not run by people on millionaires salaries, they invest most of what they earn back into the business before it is taxed and give themselves a decent (but not outlandish) pay check.

Anotehr thought, if your brilliant deduction that 1,000,000,000 people can out spend a single rich guy, it is the rich guy that provided some of them jobs to do so. Also, not a single middle class or poor person can afford a jet, a 200,000 dollar car, a 1,000,000 dollar mansion. or an 80 foot yacht. Along with the people they employ to keep all of that shit running.
And 10 people buying $20,000 cars will keep more people employed then one $200,000 one. In both manufacturing, transport, sales and servicing etc. A million dollar home is really not that much (shit ours is worth about 900k) and I know plenty of middle class people who own 50+ foot yachts, but what is more important is these purchases are 'one time' events. If you knew anything about running a business or the economy you would know cash flow is much more important then assets, or relatively small amounts of cash exchanging hands on a large consistent basis.

Uhh yeah UPS pays more
Uhhh yeah, UPS delivers shit faster
Uhh yeah UPS has job security

Uhhh yeah their prices are competitive, ( or they wouldn't be in business anyway)

govt. coddling is the only reason USPS is still operating. Only thing is, it operates with one hand tied behind its back with that same govt.s rope.
I know nothing about UPS or USPS, but Australia Post (A government run postal service) is cheaper and as (if not more) reliable then other postal services.
2009-05-20 23:47:25
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7083|Canberra, AUS
I see, so your point is 1,000,000,000 poor amd middle class people spend more money than a single rich person. Wow ya got me.

Here is another thought, that single rich guy provides more jobs and opportunity than all 1,000,000,000 of the poor or middle class.

Anotehr thought, if your brilliant deduction that 1,000,000,000 people can out spend a single rich guy, it is the rich guy that provided some of them jobs to do so. Also, not a single middle class or poor person can afford a jet, a 200,000 dollar car, a 1,000,000 dollar mansion. or an 80 foot yacht. Along with the people they employ to keep all of that shit running.
What are you saying? That we should punish the lower and middle classes instead for not providing enough jobs? Your point is irrelevant and doesn't explain why we should shield the rich from tax increases at the cost to everyone else.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2009-05-21 00:54:34
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7124
So the ball player you were talking about before provides how many jobs?
The CEO of a company provides how many jobs?
Actors provide how many jobs?
The share market traders provide how many jobs?

the ballplayer creates hundred of jobs... parking attendant people/concession stand people/ticket counter people/clean up at the park people/security people/merchandising people/tv advertising people/     you get the idea..

the fucking rich pay 90 percent of the taxes already... let's see how well California and New York do when the rich people move... which they are doing now... the age of entitlement is coming to an end... the silent majority has woken up... we are not working to support your lazy asses anymore...   I am not rich... but i want the opportunity to be rich... and the way BO is headed... that won't be possible anymore.... and i am not ending this with a fucking... lol... this is the greatest country in the world... and it will remain so...  good night
Love is the answer
2009-05-21 01:05:34
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7083|Canberra, AUS

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

So the ball player you were talking about before provides how many jobs?
The CEO of a company provides how many jobs?
Actors provide how many jobs?
The share market traders provide how many jobs?

the ballplayer creates hundred of jobs... parking attendant people/concession stand people/ticket counter people/clean up at the park people/security people/merchandising people/tv advertising people/     you get the idea..

the fucking rich pay 90 percent of the taxes already... let's see how well California and New York do when the rich people move... which they are doing now... the age of entitlement is coming to an end... the silent majority has woken up... we are not working to support your lazy asses anymore...   I am not rich... but i want the opportunity to be rich... and the way BO is headed... that won't be possible anymore.... and i am not ending this with a fucking... lol... this is the greatest country in the world... and it will remain so...  good night
Let me get this straight - 1 million instead of 1.5 million a year, that isn't still rich to you?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2009-05-21 01:24:44
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7124
It's 500 thousand dollars more... but it's HIS f$cking money... not the lazy asshat waiting for his check for doing nothing... entitlement is bullshit
  and if all of you were honest... you would agree that if you worked your ass off to achieve something... and when you did... you had to share with people that did nothing... you would tell the entitled people to get bent... 
  I know you would because there are a lot of smart people on this site(lib and con) that are successful or heading in that direction that will be pretty upset when they realize that a large portion of their compensation is going to people who believe that someone owes them something... 
We are not doing the entitled folks any favors by subsidizing there lifestyle... I have had times in my life when i had nothing... and it is very easy to fall into the victim trap... that's what the democrats hope for... they have convinced the african american community that they are helpless and they need the govts help.... that's bullshit... i have met so many young black kids and adults with so much talent...
but they are stuck in the "this is the way it is" mentality that they just give up... (victory for the liberal ideas...)  vote for us and we will take care of you...    People... all people... want a chance to be great... hopefully that will be always possible here in the US...
Love is the answer
2009-05-21 01:33:58
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6788|MN

Spark wrote:

I see, so your point is 1,000,000,000 poor amd middle class people spend more money than a single rich person. Wow ya got me.

Here is another thought, that single rich guy provides more jobs and opportunity than all 1,000,000,000 of the poor or middle class.

Anotehr thought, if your brilliant deduction that 1,000,000,000 people can out spend a single rich guy, it is the rich guy that provided some of them jobs to do so. Also, not a single middle class or poor person can afford a jet, a 200,000 dollar car, a 1,000,000 dollar mansion. or an 80 foot yacht. Along with the people they employ to keep all of that shit running.
What are you saying? That we should punish the lower and middle classes instead for not providing enough jobs? Your point is irrelevant and doesn't explain why we should shield the rich from tax increases at the cost to everyone else.
It's because they already pay an inequitable share of their salary to help the poor.  How much more do you want them to pay?  Do you think anyone receiving a freebie is learning how to take care of themselves?  Wealth redistribution is not the answer.  Personal responsibility and hard work are.

Last edited by LividBovine (2009-05-21 01:35:01)

"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
2009-05-21 05:51:31
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|7089|Disaster Free Zone

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

So the ball player you were talking about before provides how many jobs?
The CEO of a company provides how many jobs?
Actors provide how many jobs?
The share market traders provide how many jobs?

the ballplayer creates hundred of jobs... parking attendant people/concession stand people/ticket counter people/clean up at the park people/security people/merchandising people/tv advertising people/     you get the idea..
He doesn't create any jobs with his wealth. If he was paid nothing the crowds would still come and all the jobs would still be there. In fact if he was paid nothing then maybe tickets would be cheaper, more people would then buy them and create even more jobs to compensate (But I'm not encouraging that).

The fact he is compensated for making his club money is not the same as, let me quote Lowing.
providing jobs and opportunity for the rest of us.

 

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