Of course not. Can you explain it to me? A bit retarded today.FatherTed wrote:
do you get the point i was making?
genocide isnt related to religion.
it may be masked as such, but often it's just mad people doing stupid things.
hence bosnia, where the muslims were being murdered. both sides of the coin etc
it may be masked as such, but often it's just mad people doing stupid things.
hence bosnia, where the muslims were being murdered. both sides of the coin etc
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English Christians vs. Boer Christians too m8.FatherTed wrote:
genocide isnt related to religion.
it may be masked as such, but often it's just mad people doing stupid things.
hence bosnia, where the muslims were being murdered. both sides of the coin etc
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
What I'm saying is that it's a problem with human, not Islamist. Despite your opinions otherwise, there are millions of Muslims out there that do not hate women, gays, blacks, whites or whatever else you can think or, they're normal people like you and me.lowing wrote:
SO you maintain that Islam is NOT violent, or intolerant of gays or infidels and that it does not hold women as less then men? Proof pleaseghettoperson wrote:
I never claimed Islam was tolerant or intolerant of homosexuals. I just disputed what you said about it being "a violent, intolerant, destructive religion whose ideology of superiority over gays, women, and non-Muslims". As we've said time and time again, it is the minority who are violent extremists.
Ted pointed out that until very recently, in Western society people who were not white, people who were homosexual, and women all had far less rights than white, straight men. He also noted, that despite being a Western religion, Catholicism still does not grant homosexuals the same rights, and women still cannot become priests.
Given that Christianity and Western society had 2000 years to evolve into a "civilised" religion, the fact that 40 years ago blacks did not have the same rights as whites is a legitimate point.
Again, focus on my statement try and tell me I am wrong and offer up so proof to show it. Other religions and their practices are not in play regarding my statement. Those are other topics which I will gladly chime in on after we finish this one.
Well, maybe not like you, I was trying to show that they were tolerant, not hate filled.
Turkey is period of Islamic peace and tolerance?FatherTed wrote:
Turkey.lowing wrote:
well then by all means show me where Islam now or ever has been a religion of Peace and tolerance...Should be simple I guessFatherTed wrote:
the bit that was challenged was you saying that 'Islam as a violent intolerant religion' was a fact.
I take it you nor ghettoperson can show where my comment about Islam is wrong. So why not just agree with it, karma me for being so corect and we can move on.
Yep. If you're going to generalise about Islam being a 'violent intolerant religion', i'll generalise too.
Didn't see any women getting stoned to death for walkin around in short skirts
Didn't see girls getting acid thrown in their face for going to school
Didn't see any of the stuff you generally pin on all muslims.
Didn't get my head cut off for being drunk in public.
So what does that say about Islam?
Didn't see any women getting stoned to death for walkin around in short skirts
Didn't see girls getting acid thrown in their face for going to school
Didn't see any of the stuff you generally pin on all muslims.
Didn't get my head cut off for being drunk in public.
So what does that say about Islam?
Last edited by FatherTed (2009-06-05 17:49:48)
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It says Ted, that you were looking at the wrong generalisations. Reality has a well known liberal bias.
You are correct, however, terrorism, child molestation, stoning, beheading, genital mutilation etc, are all things being done under the name of Islam and some are even upheld by Islamic law.ghettoperson wrote:
What I'm saying is that it's a problem with human, not Islamist. Despite your opinions otherwise, there are millions of Muslims out there that do not hate women, gays, blacks, whites or whatever else you can think or, they're normal people like you and me.lowing wrote:
SO you maintain that Islam is NOT violent, or intolerant of gays or infidels and that it does not hold women as less then men? Proof pleaseghettoperson wrote:
I never claimed Islam was tolerant or intolerant of homosexuals. I just disputed what you said about it being "a violent, intolerant, destructive religion whose ideology of superiority over gays, women, and non-Muslims". As we've said time and time again, it is the minority who are violent extremists.
Ted pointed out that until very recently, in Western society people who were not white, people who were homosexual, and women all had far less rights than white, straight men. He also noted, that despite being a Western religion, Catholicism still does not grant homosexuals the same rights, and women still cannot become priests.
Given that Christianity and Western society had 2000 years to evolve into a "civilised" religion, the fact that 40 years ago blacks did not have the same rights as whites is a legitimate point.
Again, focus on my statement try and tell me I am wrong and offer up so proof to show it. Other religions and their practices are not in play regarding my statement. Those are other topics which I will gladly chime in on after we finish this one.
Well, maybe not like you, I was trying to show that they were tolerant, not hate filled.
Point is yes all are capable of murder, then you have those do so in the name of a religion that is affecting the entire stablity of the world.
Now, there are MUSLIMS hat are not hate filled I give you that. However, the religion of Islam remains a violent and intolerant relgion. Islam is also a culture a way of life. and that culture is violent and stoneage.
Again you are not proving me wrong by telling me that some else is violent as well.
Good stuff, except I didn't pin anything on "all Muslims". Let me see, the Turkish govt. is mainly a secular govt. is it not?FatherTed wrote:
Yep. If you're going to generalise about Islam being a 'violent intolerant religion', i'll generalise too.
Didn't see any women getting stoned to death for walkin around in short skirts
Didn't see girls getting acid thrown in their face for going to school
Didn't see any of the stuff you generally pin on all muslims.
Didn't get my head cut off for being drunk in public.
So what does that say about Islam?
oops. this is why I say the RELIGION of Islam and not the govt of Islam.
If you want to talk about the govt of ISLAM lets look at those as far as laws of intolerance.
yeh thats great, cept they were still islamists i.e muslims. and they didn't do any of that fucked up shit. and they damn well practiced their religion - them calls to prayer woke me up alll the time.
so when you say the religion of islam, you're still wrong.lol
fucked up people will do fucked up things. religion can often be used as a tool to brainwash the masses - this is pretty obvious no? the core religion seems to be fine, i can walk down a street in manchester and not get blown up by a suicide bomber (even with all them scary people people in burkhas). So if your average muslim is fine, i think you need to revise your position on islam as a whole.
you just see the wacko sects as representatives of the whole, as opposed to regarding them for their worth; i.e wacko sects.
so when you say the religion of islam, you're still wrong.lol
fucked up people will do fucked up things. religion can often be used as a tool to brainwash the masses - this is pretty obvious no? the core religion seems to be fine, i can walk down a street in manchester and not get blown up by a suicide bomber (even with all them scary people people in burkhas). So if your average muslim is fine, i think you need to revise your position on islam as a whole.
you just see the wacko sects as representatives of the whole, as opposed to regarding them for their worth; i.e wacko sects.
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Wanna talk about Saudi Arabia, and the Islamic govt. law that rules where women are inferior. Now yo know the reason why Michelle Obama was nowhere to be seen as Barrack was telling the Saudis that we are all "equal nations".FatherTed wrote:
yeh thats great, cept they were still islamists i.e muslims. and they didn't do any of that fucked up shit. and they damn well practiced their religion - them calls to prayer woke me up alll the time.
so when you say the religion of islam, you're still wrong.lol
fucked up people will do fucked up things. religion can often be used as a tool to brainwash the masses - this is pretty obvious no? the core religion seems to be fine, i can walk down a street in manchester and not get blown up by a suicide bomber (even with all them scary people people in burkhas). So if your average muslim is fine, i think you need to revise your position on islam as a whole.
you just see the wacko sects as representatives of the whole, as opposed to regarding them for their worth; i.e wacko sects.
Or maybe we can talk about Iran and the death penalty for being gay.
No sir, the religion, the culture, and the laws of Islam are intolerant and violent.
No. It's already been demonstrated (by many others) that Islamic societies work, and can work very well. The governments of some countries can use the religion to effect their own warped views/takes on the religion to do evil.
The religion is what the user makes of it.
The religion is what the user makes of it.
Last edited by FatherTed (2009-06-06 05:08:17)
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No worse than the US was about 50 years ago, and they weren't religious laws.lowing wrote:
No sir, the religion, the culture, and the laws of Islam are intolerant and violent.
Fuck Israel
Religion is dependent on interpretation, but if one is to observe the way Sharia Law is often interpreted, lowing is actually correct.Dilbert_X wrote:
No worse than the US was about 50 years ago, and they weren't religious laws.lowing wrote:
No sir, the religion, the culture, and the laws of Islam are intolerant and violent.
For example, if you convert out of Islam in Afghanistan, it is punishable by death. While the actual enforcement of this law seems to be rare nowadays, it was certainly not a rare thing under the Taliban.
By contrast, the American government has never killed someone over heresy or conversion from one religion to another.
Yeah but lowing's applying Sharia to how every muslim acts.
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Ah... I didn't read that part.FatherTed wrote:
Yeah but lowing's applying Sharia to how every muslim acts.
Well, if his argument had been that the more orthodox Islamic countries tend to be violent and intolerant, he would have been correct.
Last edited by Turquoise (2009-06-06 09:34:00)
lol thought as much. Replace the word Jews in the story with Muslims and hey presto there's lowing's irrational hate, fear and paranoia again. Also seem to have neglected how much death, misery and destruction radical Judaism - Zionism - has caused in the world. But that's ok we'll judge Jews by how the majority comports themselves and not Muslims....lowing wrote:
2 thoughts:CameronPoe wrote:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0605/1224248100723.html?via=mr
Up to ten Orthodox Jewish students who should be sitting a rescheduled state examination in English this Saturday (the Sabbath) are having their religious observances facilitated by the state. They are being quarantined on the Saturday and being permitted to sit the exam on Sunday instead.
What are your thoughts on this? Appeasement? Pragmatism? Right? Wrong?
In the strictist form of the word, yes it is appeasement. period. The state has taken in specific religious considerations in their decision.
I do not have a problem with it because it is such a minor consideration it practically is off the radar screen, ( except for Cam's fishing trip)
second thought, I also do not have a problem with it because it is not Islam, a violent, intolerant, destructive religion whose ideology of superiority over gays, women, and non-Muslims, has no place in western society.
Yeah and that use is called sharia law, and it is Islamic law. If a Muslim decides not to follow it, so be it, but it still exists as Islam.FatherTed wrote:
No. It's already been demonstrated (by many others) that Islamic societies work, and can work very well. The governments of some countries can use the religion to effect their own warped views/takes on the religion to do evil.
The religion is what the user makes of it.
No I did not. I never once mentioned anything about how "every Muslim acts". I speak of the religion itself, not how some choose to ignore it.FatherTed wrote:
Yeah but lowing's applying Sharia to how every muslim acts.
wrongDilbert_X wrote:
No worse than the US was about 50 years ago, and they weren't religious laws.lowing wrote:
No sir, the religion, the culture, and the laws of Islam are intolerant and violent.
He didn't read that part either, because I never said it.Turquoise wrote:
Ah... I didn't read that part.FatherTed wrote:
Yeah but lowing's applying Sharia to how every muslim acts.
Well, if his argument had been that the more orthodox Islamic countries tend to be violent and intolerant, he would have been correct.
Sorry Cam, I am not going to get into the whole "Final Solution" for the Jews with you.CameronPoe wrote:
lol thought as much. Replace the word Jews in the story with Muslims and hey presto there's lowing's irrational hate, fear and paranoia again. Also seem to have neglected how much death, misery and destruction radical Judaism - Zionism - has caused in the world. But that's ok we'll judge Jews by how the majority comports themselves and not Muslims....lowing wrote:
2 thoughts:CameronPoe wrote:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0605/1224248100723.html?via=mr
Up to ten Orthodox Jewish students who should be sitting a rescheduled state examination in English this Saturday (the Sabbath) are having their religious observances facilitated by the state. They are being quarantined on the Saturday and being permitted to sit the exam on Sunday instead.
What are your thoughts on this? Appeasement? Pragmatism? Right? Wrong?
In the strictist form of the word, yes it is appeasement. period. The state has taken in specific religious considerations in their decision.
I do not have a problem with it because it is such a minor consideration it practically is off the radar screen, ( except for Cam's fishing trip)
second thought, I also do not have a problem with it because it is not Islam, a violent, intolerant, destructive religion whose ideology of superiority over gays, women, and non-Muslims, has no place in western society.
Also, you don't have to ponder what my opinions are, I have no problem putting them out there, I would just appreciate if the members of this forum would stop telling me what my opinions are, in order to try a bolster an argument for their favor. FACT is I never said a word about Muslims or their behavior. Just their religion
Please take note that I still called it appeasement, however I guess admitting that, would kinda dilutes your argument against me doesn't it?
Last edited by lowing (2009-06-06 11:11:13)
Modern day Turkey is one of the more secular predominately Islamic countries. However, they do have a history of religious conflict (with the Armenians) and ethnic conflict (the Kurds).FatherTed wrote:
Turkey.lowing wrote:
well then by all means show me where Islam now or ever has been a religion of Peace and tolerance...Should be simple I guessFatherTed wrote:
the bit that was challenged was you saying that 'Islam as a violent intolerant religion' was a fact.
The Armenian genocide could be described as partially religiously motivated.
Newsflash: Muslims and Islam are intrinsically linked!!!!!lowing wrote:
Sorry Cam, I am not going to get into the whole "Final Solution" for the Jews with you.
Also, you don't have to ponder what my opinions are, I have no problem putting them out there, I would just appreciate if the members of this forum would stop telling me what my opinions are, in order to try a bolster an argument for their favor. FACT is I never said a word about Muslims or their behavior. Just their religion
Please take note that I still called it appeasement, however I guess admitting that, would kinda dilutes your argument against me doesn't it?
/lightbulb over Lowing's head
Sorry no they are not. Islam is a religion, a Muslim is a person, an individual who shall be judged by his individual behavior and action not the action done by others in the name of, or approval by, their common religion.CameronPoe wrote:
Newsflash: Muslims and Islam are intrinsically linked!!!!!lowing wrote:
Sorry Cam, I am not going to get into the whole "Final Solution" for the Jews with you.
Also, you don't have to ponder what my opinions are, I have no problem putting them out there, I would just appreciate if the members of this forum would stop telling me what my opinions are, in order to try a bolster an argument for their favor. FACT is I never said a word about Muslims or their behavior. Just their religion
Please take note that I still called it appeasement, however I guess admitting that, would kinda dilutes your argument against me doesn't it?
/lightbulb over Lowing's head