BF2S Forums DEMOCRACY HAS REACHED THE APATHY PHASE

I fear Benjamin Franklin was correct and I think we are allready stepping into the dependence stage.  Maybe half-way between Apathy and Dependence.  God help us all.

I would certainly agree that California is a progressive state in this sense.

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

moving past apathy phase and into accountability phase... the entitlement age is coming to an end...
People are all Kum ba yah when the economy is good... but when people are working hard and realizing more and more of THEIR hard earned money is going to people who think they are owed something... that will come to an end... 
   subsidizing laziness doesn't help anyone... not the person that gets the handout(learned helplessness) or the people that want to help their fellow man but are themselves made to pay more and more until they can't keep up either...  The US is what it is because of people with ideas and a burning desire to see that idea come to life... life has no meaning unless you are trying to better yourself and take care of your family...
sitting around waiting for a small check the govt throws you is no way to live... We had programs in place to help people who stumbled or who were down on their luck... we have gone way past that and it will change...   Capitalism made this country and we need to preserve that... if people abuse the laws while they are making money... put them in jail... if someone has an idea and the desire and passion to make something great happen... Get out of their way.

I doubt we are anywhere near any accountability stage as a whole.  I think there is a movement amongst the conservatives to be more vocal, but not a growing sense of accountability by the general public.  I hope I am wrong and we see a huge shift in 2010 towards true conservative principles.  We will see.  I have very little faith in the general public, too easily swayed by media.

Meanwhile I am learning as much about the constitution and our founding fathers as I can.  Have to have knowledge to fight BS.

More young people will 'get it' next semester when their state funded college tuition goes up...

ATG wrote:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been about 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage."

Interesting and probably true

I would only add that this describes the lobbyists in DC. They use money and influence to get the govt to print money and hand it over to them. DC has become an ATM for big business and the recent bail outs to the likes of AIG are prime examples. You could say that the majority never even get to vote for a candidate who has not already been vetted and corrupted by the lobbyists and big business. That would be a direct result of voter apathy and idiotic party cheer leading.

On the time scale I would say we are in the apathy to dependence stage. For a long time people really didn't care to vote and now the dependence stage is being set not with a platter of socialist entitlements but through a full course of private credit. We are all selling ourselves into debt bondage, the price of which has been brokered and set by big business and the debt statement delivered by their proxy lobbyists to the puppets in DC. The great liberty experiment known as American democracy might be at its end.

Personally, if things continue to deteriorate and 2012 is the apocalypse I can tell you that if I saw the devil carrying a doomsday bomb being chased by Jesus, I wouldn't try to stop the devil, hell I might even trip JC. If things continue, IMO there will be a whole lot of other people thinking like me.

No.

And the government doesn't care about guns.

All they have to do to make us comply is turn the power off and all the food rots.

the end of civilization is nigh.  gather ye ramen noodles and ammunition, the class wars are to commence shortly...

AR-18s sell themselves.

CameronPoe wrote:

I personally have always thought that we exist in a small pocket of 'stability' in which democracy can function, which is destined to come apart as an ever expanding mankind exponentially consume more resources than can be sustained by the earth into the future. The core things every intelligent mind on this planet should be focussed on are the fundamentals: energy, food and water. The free market is not some deity to be worshipped that has all the answers. The free market demands one thing: more consumption. Westerners are so detached in their crepulent lifestyles gorging themselves on the excesses of 'progress' that they could never or are at least reluctant to accept that they are digging their own grave. Mankind is incapable of learning lessons. When a century should be the benchmark two years is enough for a modern human to forget about past errors and mistakes. We deserve everything we get. Fuck us. Thankfully I have a family home with several acres of farmland to return to when the shit hits the fan in a few decades, but I'll probably need to invest in some barbed wire fencing and some shotguns.

Well said.

CameronPoe wrote:

I personally have always thought that we exist in a small pocket of 'stability' in which democracy can function, which is destined to come apart as an ever expanding mankind exponentially consume more resources than can be sustained by the earth into the future. The core things every intelligent mind on this planet should be focussed on are the fundamentals: energy, food and water. The free market is not some deity to be worshipped that has all the answers. The free market demands one thing: more consumption. Westerners are so detached in their crepulent lifestyles gorging themselves on the excesses of 'progress' that they could never or are at least reluctant to accept that they are digging their own grave. Mankind is incapable of learning lessons. When a century should be the benchmark two years is enough for a modern human to forget about past errors and mistakes. We deserve everything we get.

I agree that the free market will not naturally drive towards less consumption.  I also believe the free market is not to be worshiped.  The problem I, and I believe most other conservatives, have is we don't want our government stepping into our lives and dictating how we are to live.  If there really is an issue with global warming Climate Change.  It needs to be addressed.  Again, I would choose to address the issue personally.  I do not want or need the government to tell me how to solve problems.  If given the correct information people will choose the correct path.

To get someone to do something you have several options:  Take control and force the issue down their throats.  Educate on the issues, take them to vote, and move on. 

We have a choice to make.  Do we look to the government to answer everything for us, or do we take the issues to task ourselves.  I choose to take the issues on myself and challenge others everyday to do the same. 

I have one caveat to my position, the people have to be making decisions based on some kind of moral basis.  The free market provides a better mechanism than any other for rewarding good decisions and punishing poor ones.  If people are thinking about what is good for them and them alone, the free market will drive to where it is now.  If people are making decisions based what is good for them and society in the long run, the free market will work wonderfully.

CameronPoe wrote:

Thankfully I have a family home with several acres of farmland to return to when the shit hits the fan in a few decades, but I'll probably need to invest in some barbed wire fencing and some shotguns.

Might want something with a little more range too.

LividBovine wrote:

I agree that the free market will not naturally drive towards less consumption.  I also believe the free market is not to be worshiped.  The problem I, and I believe most other conservatives, have is we don't want our government stepping into our lives and dictating how we are to live.  If there really is an issue with global warming Climate Change.  It needs to be addressed.  Again, I would choose to address the issue personally.  I do not want or need the government to tell me how to solve problems.  If given the correct information people will choose the correct path.

To get someone to do something you have several options:  Take control and force the issue down their throats.  Educate on the issues, take them to vote, and move on. 

We have a choice to make.  Do we look to the government to answer everything for us, or do we take the issues to task ourselves.  I choose to take the issues on myself and challenge others everyday to do the same. 

I have one caveat to my position, the people have to be making decisions based on some kind of moral basis.  The free market provides a better mechanism than any other for rewarding good decisions and punishing poor ones.  If people are thinking about what is good for them and them alone, the free market will drive to where it is now.  If people are making decisions based what is good for them and society in the long run, the free market will work wonderfully.

CameronPoe wrote:

Thankfully I have a family home with several acres of farmland to return to when the shit hits the fan in a few decades, but I'll probably need to invest in some barbed wire fencing and some shotguns.

Might want something with a little more range too.

The problem is Livid that while you might be responsible, there is a massive ocean of greedy, self-serving, unintelligent, short-sighted wastes of space in every nation that upsets the barrel cart for everyone, hence the need for government intervention in our lives. We can only function as a society through the rule of law and through co-operation, which is at odds with our innate desire to screw the system and take everything we can get, irrespective of whose expense it is at. Your second point I think recognises the flaw in the system: people. The free market is a model and seems brilliant in theory but people will do anything to expoit its flaws for short term personal gain: the road to ruin. Just as communism was at odds with human nature, the expectation that humans will take actions in the 'broader interest of mankind' on a macroscopic level is a bit naive. We are greedy cunts that need to have our actions regulated - to an appropriate degree.

My fundamental gripe with the free market is that the measure of success is economic growth. 2% economic growth would be far preferable to 7% in my eyes. The more rapidly we grow the closer we come to all out apocalypse.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-06-14 05:54:27)