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Lol...I would say the source is a 'little' biased...usmarine wrote:
oh please dude. the president of your source is from palestine.
tad bit. well done otto.Harmor wrote:
Lol...I would say the source is a 'little' biased...usmarine wrote:
oh please dude. the president of your source is from palestine.
you say it as if america didn't use terrorism for independenceHarmor wrote:
I still think the Palestinians don't deserve a state if they have Hamas, a terrorist organization, in charge.
Why not have Egypt annex that land?
erm....i would hardly call revolutionary war battles guerrilla tactics and such. ya ya you can show maybe a handful of those type of tactics. but really, they just lined up and shot each other. if anyone was the terrorists, it was the brits. killing civies and burning homes.rammunition wrote:
you say it as if america didn't use terrorism for independenceHarmor wrote:
I still think the Palestinians don't deserve a state if they have Hamas, a terrorist organization, in charge.
Why not have Egypt annex that land?
my mistakeusmarine wrote:
erm....i would hardly call revolutionary war battles guerrilla tactics and such. ya ya you can show maybe a handful of those type of tactics. but really, they just lined up and shot each other. if anyone was the terrorists, it was the brits. killing civies and burning homes.rammunition wrote:
you say it as if america didn't use terrorism for independenceHarmor wrote:
I still think the Palestinians don't deserve a state if they have Hamas, a terrorist organization, in charge.
Why not have Egypt annex that land?
Last edited by bogo24dk (2009-06-14 01:45:56)
the british were actually very restrained with their tactics. their goal was to put down the rebellion without alienating their colonial subjects. had they brought their full force to bear, we wouldn't have stood a chance but they would have lost all remaining support. their only real terrorism was unleashing natives on the western frontier.usmarine wrote:
if anyone was the terrorists, it was the brits. killing civies and burning homes.
Last edited by Reciprocity (2009-06-14 01:54:07)
Nuts!Reciprocity wrote:
the british were actually very restrained with their tactics.
Last edited by Reciprocity (2009-06-14 02:13:04)
You realise Hamas aren't in charge of the OTs/Palestine? They're in charge of Gaza, a tiny little bit of the OTs. Fatah, who are in charge of the West Bank, are far more reasonable than Hamas. Yet that doesn't stop the Israelis from building their settlements there. Why do they buld them on land controlled by Fatah? Because the land there is better and they don't give a shit who owns it, they just want to take it.Harmor wrote:
I still think the Palestinians don't deserve a state if they have Hamas, a terrorist organization, in charge.
Why not have Egypt annex that land?
And the main report on there is from an EU funded UN observation team, United Against Torture. A team from a number of NGOs, including a lot from Israel. Their report back to the UN is extremely condemning:usmarine wrote:
oh please dude. the president of your source is from palestine.
Summary of UIT Report wrote:
Since the Committee last reviewed Israel, the practice of torture and ill-treatment has continued unabated. The UAT Coalition wishes to inform the Committee that in its opinion, the use of torture and ill-treatment by Israeli authorities against Palestinians is both widespread and systematic. The State is either unwilling or unable to fulfil its obligations under the Convention.
The UAT Coalition has observed and recorded evidence of acts, omissions and complicity by agents of the State at all levels, including the army, the intelligence service, the police, the judiciary and other branches of government.
The UAT Coalition is of the view that until this culture of impunity is addressed the situation is unlikely to improve, and the Committee will find itself issuing similar conclusions and recommendations in four years time.
somehow because it is UN is supposed to mean anything?Bertster7 wrote:
You realise Hamas aren't in charge of the OTs/Palestine? They're in charge of Gaza, a tiny little bit of the OTs. Fatah, who are in charge of the West Bank, are far more reasonable than Hamas. Yet that doesn't stop the Israelis from building their settlements there. Why do they buld them on land controlled by Fatah? Because the land there is better and they don't give a shit who owns it, they just want to take it.Harmor wrote:
I still think the Palestinians don't deserve a state if they have Hamas, a terrorist organization, in charge.
Why not have Egypt annex that land?And the main report on there is from an EU funded UN observation team, United Against Torture. A team from a number of NGOs, including a lot from Israel. Their report back to the UN is extremely condemning:usmarine wrote:
oh please dude. the president of your source is from palestine.Summary of UIT Report wrote:
Since the Committee last reviewed Israel, the practice of torture and ill-treatment has continued unabated. The UAT Coalition wishes to inform the Committee that in its opinion, the use of torture and ill-treatment by Israeli authorities against Palestinians is both widespread and systematic. The State is either unwilling or unable to fulfil its obligations under the Convention.
The UAT Coalition has observed and recorded evidence of acts, omissions and complicity by agents of the State at all levels, including the army, the intelligence service, the police, the judiciary and other branches of government.
The UAT Coalition is of the view that until this culture of impunity is addressed the situation is unlikely to improve, and the Committee will find itself issuing similar conclusions and recommendations in four years time.
Last edited by usmarine (2009-06-14 02:59:29)
And how is that answer relevant to anything?usmarine wrote:
somehow because it is UN is supposed to mean anything?Bertster7 wrote:
You realise Hamas aren't in charge of the OTs/Palestine? They're in charge of Gaza, a tiny little bit of the OTs. Fatah, who are in charge of the West Bank, are far more reasonable than Hamas. Yet that doesn't stop the Israelis from building their settlements there. Why do they buld them on land controlled by Fatah? Because the land there is better and they don't give a shit who owns it, they just want to take it.Harmor wrote:
I still think the Palestinians don't deserve a state if they have Hamas, a terrorist organization, in charge.
Why not have Egypt annex that land?And the main report on there is from an EU funded UN observation team, United Against Torture. A team from a number of NGOs, including a lot from Israel. Their report back to the UN is extremely condemning:usmarine wrote:
oh please dude. the president of your source is from palestine.Summary of UIT Report wrote:
Since the Committee last reviewed Israel, the practice of torture and ill-treatment has continued unabated. The UAT Coalition wishes to inform the Committee that in its opinion, the use of torture and ill-treatment by Israeli authorities against Palestinians is both widespread and systematic. The State is either unwilling or unable to fulfil its obligations under the Convention.
The UAT Coalition has observed and recorded evidence of acts, omissions and complicity by agents of the State at all levels, including the army, the intelligence service, the police, the judiciary and other branches of government.
The UAT Coalition is of the view that until this culture of impunity is addressed the situation is unlikely to improve, and the Committee will find itself issuing similar conclusions and recommendations in four years time.
the UN is more useless than used toilet paper
usmarine was making the point that the President of DCI is a Palestinian.Ottomania wrote:
My source is not biased since it is a just a section of Defence Child International.
Try reading this(picked up from link):
http://www.dci-pal.org/english/doc/repo … /apr03.pdf
nothing makes that reasonable.
We dont try to prove local forces unguilty. Those are independent from our condemnation of Israel.usmarine wrote:
you know bert, i know you try your best to "get" me and look so damn smart, but you people (and the UIT) seem to leave certain details out of the headlines. i know the palestine stuff is buried deep but its nice to just see israel in the headline.
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from the report you linked:
According to reports before the Committee, both Hamas security forces in Gaza and Fatah authorities in the West Bank have carried out arbitrary arrests, abductions and unlawful detentions of political opponents, denied them access to a lawyer and subjected detainees to acts of torture and ill-treatment. Reportedly, those detained have been denied, inter alia, basic due process rights and the right to prompt and effective investigations. Additionally, an increase in such incidents¸ including deliberate maiming, as well as extrajudicial killings, was reported to have been conducted by Hamas forces in Gaza, allegedly against Fatah security services officials or persons suspected of collaboration with Israeli forces, during and after Operation Cast Lead.
The Palestinian authorities in the West Bank should take immediate measures to investigate, prosecute and appropriately punish persons under their jurisdiction responsible for these abuses; additionally, Hamas authorities in the Gaza Strip should take immediate steps to end its campaign of abductions, deliberate and unlawful killings, torture, and unlawful detentions, and to punish those responsible. The creation of an independent, impartial and non-partisan commission of experts to investigate these abuses should receive attention as a matter of priority.
ya no kiddingOttomania wrote:
Those are independent from our condemnation of Israel.
What, like the fact that Hamas and Fatah are constantly fighting with each other, murdering each other, abducting each other and generally not playing nice together?usmarine wrote:
you know bert, i know you try your best to "get" me and look so damn smart, but you people (and the UIT) seem to leave certain details out of the headlines. i know the palestine stuff is buried deep but its nice to just see israel in the headline.
-----------------
from the report you linked:
According to reports before the Committee, both Hamas security forces in Gaza and Fatah authorities in the West Bank have carried out arbitrary arrests, abductions and unlawful detentions of political opponents, denied them access to a lawyer and subjected detainees to acts of torture and ill-treatment. Reportedly, those detained have been denied, inter alia, basic due process rights and the right to prompt and effective investigations. Additionally, an increase in such incidents¸ including deliberate maiming, as well as extrajudicial killings, was reported to have been conducted by Hamas forces in Gaza, allegedly against Fatah security services officials or persons suspected of collaboration with Israeli forces, during and after Operation Cast Lead.
The Palestinian authorities in the West Bank should take immediate measures to investigate, prosecute and appropriately punish persons under their jurisdiction responsible for these abuses; additionally, Hamas authorities in the Gaza Strip should take immediate steps to end its campaign of abductions, deliberate and unlawful killings, torture, and unlawful detentions, and to punish those responsible. The creation of an independent, impartial and non-partisan commission of experts to investigate these abuses should receive attention as a matter of priority.
That's not even vaguely what I'm saying. I'm saying Fatah don't really do anything particularly bad except fighting with Hamas and not quite having quite a tight enough grip on their security services (domestically). Nothing too serious.usmarine wrote:
idc where they build them. are you justifying that stuff because they build there?
Last edited by Bertster7 (2009-06-14 03:39:30)
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