CameronPoe wrote:

The problem is Livid that while you might be responsible, there is a massive ocean of greedy, self-serving, unintelligent, short-sighted wastes of space in every nation that upsets the barrel cart for everyone, hence the need for government intervention in our lives. We can only function as a society through the rule of law and through co-operation, which is at odds with our innate desire to screw the system and take everything we can get, irrespective of whose expense it is at. Your second point I think recognises the flaw in the system: people. The free market is a model and seems brilliant in theory but people will do anything to expoit its flaws for short term personal gain: the road to ruin. Just as communism was at odds with human nature, the expectation that humans will take actions in the 'broader interest of mankind' on a macroscopic level is a bit naive. We are greedy cunts that need to have our actions regulated - to an appropriate degree.
The problem is that those regulations still have to be made up and enforced by other people. Of this select group, at some point, some or most individuals will get as greedy as a democratic mob. This could (and probably will) eventually lead to rebellion and ultimately set us back to a more democratic system, completing the circle. I think the only thing we can safely conclude is that these systems are dynamic and one will always be replaced by another after a given period of time.

ATG wrote:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been about 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage."
100% true and at present 100% politically incorrect. After all, here in the Western world we all have to believe in a democratic Utopia or be cast out.

I think that in general I'm on the same line with Cam here, in that I think one of the most important and desirable developments in Western society would be the recognition and realization that Democracy is a system. While it may be one of the better systems presently at hand, we should never ever disregard the fact that it is still A system; it also has flaws. There are no such things as "true democracy" or "universal human rights", they are all agreements made by a group of people, however large. Personally, 21st century Western democracy is not my system of choice.