TehAndroo
Banned
+19|5752
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090927/ap_ … ore_school

WASHINGTON – Students beware: The summer vacation you just enjoyed could be sharply curtailed if President Barack Obama gets his way.

Obama says American kids spend too little time in school, putting them at a disadvantage with other students around the globe.

"Now, I know longer school days and school years are not wildly popular ideas," the president said earlier this year. "Not with Malia and Sasha, not in my family, and probably not in yours. But the challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom."

The president, who has a sixth-grader and a third-grader, wants schools to add time to classes, to stay open late and to let kids in on weekends so they have a safe place to go.

"Our school calendar is based upon the agrarian economy and not too many of our kids are working the fields today," Education Secretary Arne Duncan said in a recent interview with The Associated Press.

Fifth-grader Nakany Camara is of two minds. She likes the four-week summer program at her school, Brookhaven Elementary School in Rockville, Md. Nakany enjoys seeing her friends there and thinks summer school helped boost her grades from two Cs to the honor roll.

But she doesn't want a longer school day. "I would walk straight out the door," she said.

Domonique Toombs felt the same way when she learned she would stay for an extra three hours each day in sixth grade at Boston's Clarence R. Edwards Middle School.

"I was like, `Wow, are you serious?'" she said. "That's three more hours I won't be able to chill with my friends after school."

Her school is part of a 3-year-old state initiative to add 300 hours of school time in nearly two dozen schools. Early results are positive. Even reluctant Domonique, who just started ninth grade, feels differently now. "I've learned a lot," she said.

Does Obama want every kid to do these things? School until dinnertime? Summer school? And what about the idea that kids today are overscheduled and need more time to play?

___

Obama and Duncan say kids in the United States need more school because kids in other nations have more school.

"Young people in other countries are going to school 25, 30 percent longer than our students here," Duncan told the AP. "I want to just level the playing field."

While it is true that kids in many other countries have more school days, it's not true they all spend more time in school.

Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests — Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days).

___

Regardless, there is a strong case for adding time to the school day.

Researcher Tom Loveless of the Brookings Institution looked at math scores in countries that added math instruction time. Scores rose significantly, especially in countries that added minutes to the day, rather than days to the year.

"Ten minutes sounds trivial to a school day, but don't forget, these math periods in the U.S. average 45 minutes," Loveless said. "Percentage-wise, that's a pretty healthy increase."

In the U.S., there are many examples of gains when time is added to the school day.

Charter schools are known for having longer school days or weeks or years. For example, kids in the KIPP network of 82 charter schools across the country go to school from 7:30 a.m. to 5 p.m., more than three hours longer than the typical day. They go to school every other Saturday and for three weeks in the summer. KIPP eighth-grade classes exceed their school district averages on state tests.

In Massachusetts' expanded learning time initiative, early results indicate that kids in some schools do better on state tests than do kids at regular public schools. The extra time, which schools can add as hours or days, is for three things: core academics — kids struggling in English, for example, get an extra English class; more time for teachers; and enrichment time for kids.

Regular public schools are adding time, too, though it is optional and not usually part of the regular school day. Their calendar is pretty much set in stone. Most states set the minimum number of school days at 180 days, though a few require 175 to 179 days.

Several schools are going year-round by shortening summer vacation and lengthening other breaks.

Many schools are going beyond the traditional summer school model, in which schools give remedial help to kids who flunked or fell behind.

Summer is a crucial time for kids, especially poorer kids, because poverty is linked to problems that interfere with learning, such as hunger and less involvement by their parents.

That makes poor children almost totally dependent on their learning experience at school, said Karl Alexander, a sociology professor at Baltimore's Johns Hopkins University, home of the National Center for Summer Learning.

Disadvantaged kids, on the whole, make no progress in the summer, Alexander said. Some studies suggest they actually fall back. Wealthier kids have parents who read to them, have strong language skills and go to great lengths to give them learning opportunities such as computers, summer camp, vacations, music lessons, or playing on sports teams.

"If your parents are high school dropouts with low literacy levels and reading for pleasure is not hard-wired, it's hard to be a good role model for your children, even if you really want to be," Alexander said.

Extra time is not cheap. The Massachusetts program costs an extra $1,300 per student, or 12 percent to 15 percent more than regular per-student spending, said Jennifer Davis, a founder of the program. It received more than $17.5 million from the state Legislature last year.

The Montgomery County, Md., summer program, which includes Brookhaven, received $1.6 million in federal stimulus dollars to operate this year and next, but it runs for only 20 days.

Aside from improving academic performance, Education Secretary Duncan has a vision of schools as the heart of the community. Duncan, who was Chicago's schools chief, grew up studying alongside poor kids on the city's South Side as part of the tutoring program his mother still runs.

"Those hours from 3 o'clock to 7 o'clock are times of high anxiety for parents," Duncan said. "They want their children safe. Families are working one and two and three jobs now to make ends meet and to keep food on the table."
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6557|what

His just trying to win over the youth of America with his promise of more schooling, they'll be eating out of his hand for years ready to vote in the next election...

wait, what?


Seriously though, I do not agree with the US system of Summer break. You should have 4 terms of school, with a fortnights break at the between each, with an extended break over Winter for the new year. Not for a whole season of 3 months.

You kids just forget everything you learned because the break is far too long.

Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests — Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days).
Longer school years are the answer, with the Summer break divided up between the whole year. imo

edit: fixed

Last edited by AussieReaper (2009-09-27 16:15:53)

https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
cowami
OY, BITCHTITS!
+1,106|6694|Noo Yawk, Noo Yawk

lulz

spring break is no more than a week at most
https://i.imgur.com/PfIpcdn.gif
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6791
Our spring break is 3 days and we go 194 days and the district is adding 2 per year.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5762|London, England
Longer school year? Yes. Longer school day? No. Kids are braindead after lunch anyway. Tacking on more hours at the end of the day won't improve test scores etc.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5990

Spending more time in school will do nothing unless you actually improve the state of education rather than just forcing to kids to sit through more poor quality schooling.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6557|what

Sorry, I was thinking of your Summer break, not Spring. lol

In Australia, the Summer season officially lasts from December to February, and therefore coincides with the Christmas and New Year holidays. The dates of Australian school holidays (the term used, rather than "vacation") are determined by each state's Department of Education, the Summer (also known as Christmas) holidays being the longest in duration. Typically Christmas or Summer holidays in Australia last approximately six weeks, usually from around December 20 (depending on school year, see below) to the last few days of January. While significantly shorter than the North American Summer vacation, Australian schools also break for two weeks at Easter, and in June and September, giving students and teachers a total of twelve weeks of annual holidays.
Having 3 months off at once is too long imo, you'd forget everything.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
cowami
OY, BITCHTITS!
+1,106|6694|Noo Yawk, Noo Yawk

AussieReaper wrote:

Sorry, I was thinking of your Summer break, not Spring. lol

In Australia, the Summer season officially lasts from December to February, and therefore coincides with the Christmas and New Year holidays. The dates of Australian school holidays (the term used, rather than "vacation") are determined by each state's Department of Education, the Summer (also known as Christmas) holidays being the longest in duration. Typically Christmas or Summer holidays in Australia last approximately six weeks, usually from around December 20 (depending on school year, see below) to the last few days of January. While significantly shorter than the North American Summer vacation, Australian schools also break for two weeks at Easter, and in June and September, giving students and teachers a total of twelve weeks of annual holidays.
Having 3 months off at once is too long imo, you'd forget everything.
meh, in college, no longer applies as much
https://i.imgur.com/PfIpcdn.gif
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|6106|College Park, MD

Macbeth wrote:

Spending more time in school will do nothing unless you actually improve the state of education rather than just forcing to kids to sit through more poor quality schooling.
Agreed. I had three month summer breaks like the rest of the US, but the school I went to (private) was very good and as such I'm very well educated compared to a LOT of people in the US. Same with anyone else who attends a good school, be it public or private.
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Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5762|London, England

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Spending more time in school will do nothing unless you actually improve the state of education rather than just forcing to kids to sit through more poor quality schooling.
Agreed. I had three month summer breaks like the rest of the US, but the school I went to (private) was very good and as such I'm very well educated compared to a LOT of people in the US. Same with anyone else who attends a good school, be it public or private.
I see that it taught you humility as well.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|6106|College Park, MD

JohnG@lt wrote:

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Spending more time in school will do nothing unless you actually improve the state of education rather than just forcing to kids to sit through more poor quality schooling.
Agreed. I had three month summer breaks like the rest of the US, but the school I went to (private) was very good and as such I'm very well educated compared to a LOT of people in the US. Same with anyone else who attends a good school, be it public or private.
I see that it taught you humility as well.
Uhm, I'm not being a braggart, it's a simple matter of fact. People attending good schools will be more educated than people who don't. Many public schools in the US are not very good. As such, many people don't get the education they should.

It's kind of like saying that people who go to the gym will be healthier than people who sit on the couch all day. It's not a matter of humility it's simple fact.
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Ticia
Member
+73|5739
More school time OMG!!!

Hey Obama leave those kids alone
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6872

JohnG@lt wrote:

Longer school year? Yes. Longer school day? No. Kids are braindead after lunch anyway. Tacking on more hours at the end of the day won't improve test scores etc.
I agree, the number of hours is fine, their dispersion is not.
The_Sniper_NM
Official EVGA Fanboy
+94|6518|SC | USA |
Honestly, we need year-round school. Just give a ~1 month off in between quarters.

Edit: These bullshit summer reading assignments are getting to me. I'd enjoy my 4 books more if I didn't have to write 3 pages after finishing each one.

Last edited by The_Sniper_NM (2009-09-27 17:24:57)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6510|eXtreme to the maX

JohnG@lt wrote:

I see that it taught you humility as well.
Pot-kettle?

Three months is a long time to not be in school.
Fuck Israel
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|7119|US
The amount of time spent isn't the most serious issue.  The effectiveness of class time is seriously lacking in many schools.  Adding class time is trying to compensate quantity for mediocre quality (it might work...might not).
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7120
How about longer school hours for extra curricular activities. Taiwan has shit long school hours (7am- 5pm WTF). Think about the amount of stress you put the kids into. One of my friend got a brain tumor because of the stress at school.

RAIMUS got it right, its not the amount of time spent at school, it's how effective and efficient the classroom is. Why you think expensive rich private school kids get higher scores while spending the same amount of time at school? Because their teachers care and are more interactive with students.

Summer is way way too long I agree... But most kids are using that time to study their SAT's and shit like that. Either way the education schedule is fucked.

Hows this proposal: Let kids have a day off if they can contribute to a job specialty (Technology, Engineering etc) and work in that job while getting credit hours for it. Kinda like an internship but better.
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Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|6106|College Park, MD

Cybargs wrote:

But most kids are using that time to study their SAT's and shit like that.
hahahahah
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7120

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

But most kids are using that time to study their SAT's and shit like that.
hahahahah
Ok fine the azn NERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDS who want to get into top 40 schools

I think I shall take back my statement since I'm around too many crazy azns.
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Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|6106|College Park, MD

Cybargs wrote:

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

But most kids are using that time to study their SAT's and shit like that.
hahahahah
Ok fine the azn NERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDS who want to get into top 40 schools

I think I shall take back my statement since I'm around too many crazy azns.
seriously they're not even people
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7120

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Hurricane2k9 wrote:


hahahahah
Ok fine the azn NERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDS who want to get into top 40 schools

I think I shall take back my statement since I'm around too many crazy azns.
seriously they're not even people
GF's brother got 2380 =.= My other friend got 780 on Lit and Bio first time he took it. People at my school are doing mehish at around 1600-1800. GF is probably gonna get around 2100 while I'm stuck around 1500 =/ Reading and Writing sucks while I get an A in English, but I have a D- in Algebra 2 and my math is around 600. wtf. And were using US curriculum and I'm in AP language =.=

I don't get how the fuck some people in my school's English is so shit and they can score 2000
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Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6510|eXtreme to the maX

Raimius wrote:

The amount of time spent isn't the most serious issue.  The effectiveness of class time is seriously lacking in many schools.
An average 45 min maths class sounds useless.
By the time your brain starts working its time to pack up.
Fuck Israel
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|7126|Sydney, Australia
I don't think making school days any longer will do anything. What times to you guys have anyway? For me in Aussieland, I was at high school from 8:40am - 3:00pm each day.

I agree with Reaper's idea of more standardised school terms. Four 10-11 week terms, separated by 2 week holidays (with a longer one over christmas), really does work wonders. Terms aren't too long, and you don't really forget anything over the break. Plus, you would rarely get additional holiday assignments, cause there is no real time to do them.


Given these statistics:
Kids in the U.S. spend more hours in school (1,146 instructional hours per year) than do kids in the Asian countries that persistently outscore the U.S. on math and science tests — Singapore (903), Taiwan (1,050), Japan (1,005) and Hong Kong (1,013). That is despite the fact that Taiwan, Japan and Hong Kong have longer school years (190 to 201 days) than does the U.S. (180 days).
I'll just take a stab in the dark and say it's a cultural difference. Work ethic. Cause hell, there are just so many people here.. and I'll assume in the USA.. that just don't give a shit about school. Or, not so much that they don't give a shit, but more that they don't want to learn because it's "boring". They don't have the personal work ethic to suck it up and just do the work. On the other hand, that kind of thing is instilled in the asian cultures.. and thus even with less schooling they can still outscore students from the USA.

Heh, that was beautiful, as it is quite an appropriate example to support my point...

The_Sniper_NM wrote:

Edit: These bullshit summer reading assignments are getting to me. I'd enjoy my 4 books more if I didn't have to write 3 pages after finishing each one.
Three pages per book? What's that like three A4 pages of size 12 times new roman font? That would be like.. 1500 words? Not. Too. Hard.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,822|6510|eXtreme to the maX

mcminty wrote:

I'll just take a stab in the dark and say it's a cultural difference. Work ethic. Cause hell, there are just so many people here.. and I'll assume in the USA.. that just don't give a shit about school. Or, not so much that they don't give a shit, but more that they don't want to learn because it's "boring". They don't have the personal work ethic to suck it up and just do the work. On the other hand, that kind of thing is instilled in the asian cultures.. and thus even with less schooling they can still outscore students from the USA.
Fuck Israel
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7120

Dilbert_X wrote:

mcminty wrote:

I'll just take a stab in the dark and say it's a cultural difference. Work ethic. Cause hell, there are just so many people here.. and I'll assume in the USA.. that just don't give a shit about school. Or, not so much that they don't give a shit, but more that they don't want to learn because it's "boring". They don't have the personal work ethic to suck it up and just do the work. On the other hand, that kind of thing is instilled in the asian cultures.. and thus even with less schooling they can still outscore students from the USA.
Puritan work ethic is still instilled. It just depends where you are tbh. With Asians it isn't a work ethic, but more as a philosophy. Asians believe study hard = good grades = good job. Sometimes it doesn't really correspond since I know a lot of top kids who can't handle simple real life work situations. Asian students are great at regurgitating shit, but telling them an open ended question they are fucked.
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