i prefer the term "Higher Power". the concept of a deity that didn't hate me was presented to me in rehab. i fail to see the relevance of organized religion to this day.CanadianLoser wrote:
The idea of God is not stupid, religion is. Don't bring religion into the classroom.
I've given up trying to explain to this board why it is that religion in the appropriate amounts and context can be a wonderful thing in your life.
Go on, keep hating.
I could list a zillion things man has done that corrupt the idea or mix bullshit politics into it.
I know for a fact that the vast majority who dismiss Jesus have done zero research into the real historical figure that was alive and walked the earth.
There is great arguments to be made on who he was, what he taught and whether or not there was anything supernatural about it. The fact that he was a real person is not in dispute. The fact that so called ' miracles ' were performed by him is fairly well documented but we usually never get to argue the facts as 98% of you have never heard them.
But go on....
Go on, keep hating.
I could list a zillion things man has done that corrupt the idea or mix bullshit politics into it.
I know for a fact that the vast majority who dismiss Jesus have done zero research into the real historical figure that was alive and walked the earth.
There is great arguments to be made on who he was, what he taught and whether or not there was anything supernatural about it. The fact that he was a real person is not in dispute. The fact that so called ' miracles ' were performed by him is fairly well documented but we usually never get to argue the facts as 98% of you have never heard them.
But go on....
ok, i'll try - for years my wife and i subscribed to an organized religion. as time went on, we found that we weren't able to have children.
as my wife more than once stated "Religion can bring you peace, if you live it's teachings and believe in it."
well, the religion we were following at the time preached "Go forth, and multiply, that thy days on earth be full of joy."
so yeah, fuck religion.
as my wife more than once stated "Religion can bring you peace, if you live it's teachings and believe in it."
well, the religion we were following at the time preached "Go forth, and multiply, that thy days on earth be full of joy."
so yeah, fuck religion.
Are you suggesting that because someone wrote it, many years after the death of Jesus, that those documents prove he healed the blind and sick?ATG wrote:
The fact that so called ' miracles ' were performed by him is fairly well documented
A good friend of mine is named Lee and he is in the same situation.burnzz wrote:
ok, i'll try - for years my wife and i subscribed to an organized religion. as time went on, we found that we weren't able to have children.
as my wife more than once stated "Religion can bring you peace, if you live it's teachings and believe in it."
well, the religion we were following at the time preached "Go forth, and multiply, that thy days on earth be full of joy."
so yeah, fuck religion.
He now serves in the childrens ministry. The guy has enough good father in him to spread around to dozens of children who really need him.
But, tbh Burnzz; religion is a thing best debated in a detached setting, or over esoteric points.
I'm not going to tell you you should do anything or believe any certain way or be a big enough ass to suggest there may be some sort of eternal consequence if you don't believe a certain way. That ain't my trip. Having spent the majority of my life angry, confused or not interested in God I can only say I remain a hopeful agnostic. I'd like to get all into it without reservations, but I just can't. Yet.
The people I have surrounded myself with who are into it are the most successful and happy people with best attitudes. Or at least that is the perception.
I just want to be happy, successful and have a good attitude.
My 14 years as a semi serious rock climber put me in contact with a great many devil-may-care, 'carpe diem' nature loving godless freaks and physic majors. We all had good adventures and banged a lot of chicks but they remain a sort of troubled bunch.
The Ten Commandments make a very practical set of guidelines for people living together in peace, the ten points of which almost nobody disagrees with. Point; there is wisdom to be found in the book. Taking it literally word for word is as ignorant as saying with absolute certainty that there is no God.
*many people.. and many yearsAussieReaper wrote:
Are you suggesting that because someone wrote it, many years after the death of Jesus, that those documents prove he healed the blind and sick?ATG wrote:
The fact that so called ' miracles ' were performed by him is fairly well documented
Xbone Stormsurgezz
I doubt Christianity could have survived without one person, Saul. It could easily have survived without Jesus existing at all.Kmarion wrote:
*many people.. and many yearsAussieReaper wrote:
Are you suggesting that because someone wrote it, many years after the death of Jesus, that those documents prove he healed the blind and sick?ATG wrote:
The fact that so called ' miracles ' were performed by him is fairly well documented
i will descibe myself then in the following manner;AussieReaper wrote:
I doubt Christianity could have survived without one person, Saul. It could easily have survived without Jesus existing at all.
Saulicious
As you probably know Christianity resembles a number of other very similar beliefs around that time. Some of the stories/documentation are the same. Son of god, rising, etc..AussieReaper wrote:
I doubt Christianity could have survived without one person, Saul. It could easily have survived without Jesus existing at all.Kmarion wrote:
*many people.. and many yearsAussieReaper wrote:
Are you suggesting that because someone wrote it, many years after the death of Jesus, that those documents prove he healed the blind and sick?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
I love how the Church yanked December 25 from the pagans..lol
Clever
Clever
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Resembles? The stories were all taken from others before them. Son of God? Same thing the Roman Emperor of the time was claiming, Augustus deified Julius to claim the (adopted) son of God status. Most of the other foundations of Christianity are either based in Zoroastrianism or the various Egyptian beliefs.Kmarion wrote:
As you probably know Christianity resembles a number of other very similar beliefs around that time. Some of the stories/documentation are the same. Son of god, rising, etc..
Doesn't take a genius to work out how easy it is to show that nothing in Christianity was new or unheard of before.
Pretty much what I was getting at there genius. There are minor deviations though.AussieReaper wrote:
Resembles? The stories were all taken from others before them. Son of God? Same thing the Roman Emperor of the time was claiming, Augustus deified Julius to claim the (adopted) son of God status. Most of the other foundations of Christianity are either based in Zoroastrianism or the various Egyptian beliefs.Kmarion wrote:
As you probably know Christianity resembles a number of other very similar beliefs around that time. Some of the stories/documentation are the same. Son of god, rising, etc..
Doesn't take a genius to work out how easy it is to show that nothing in Christianity was new or unheard of before.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
So why should anyone take the bible seriously if they dismiss every other religion as paganism and heresy?Kmarion wrote:
Pretty much what I was getting at there genius. There are minor deviations though.
That is your choice. Most religions claim to be the true path. Pick your flavor.AussieReaper wrote:
So why should anyone take the bible seriously if they dismiss every other religion as paganism and heresy?Kmarion wrote:
Pretty much what I was getting at there genius. There are minor deviations though.
I think you are mistaking me for someone who follows organized religion. That is not my personal choice.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
I thank you for not limiting your question to the Bible.AussieReaper wrote:
Are you suggesting that because someone wrote it, many years after the death of Jesus, that those documents prove he healed the blind and sick?ATG wrote:
The fact that so called ' miracles ' were performed by him is fairly well documented
Julian the Apostate (Roman Emperor from 361-363 A.D.;
"Jesus . . . has now been honored for about three hundred years; having done nothing throughout his lifetime that was worthy of fame, unless anyone thinks it a very great work to heal the lame and the blind and to cast out demons in the towns of Bethsaida and Bethany."
The early Jewish Rabbis of the first century did not deny that Jesus performed miracles, but they tried to attribute them to acts of sorcery.
A passage taken from the Babylonia Sanhedrin written sometime between 95-110 A.D. states:
"During the time of Passover they executed Yeshu (of Nazareth). An announcement was made for forty days before this saying (Yeshu of Nazareth) will be stoned in that he has practiced sorcery and deceived and led Israel astray. Let everyone who knows contrary, come and plead for his defense. But they found nothing in his defense and crucified him . . ."
There is ample written evidence outside the Bible, oddly enough in Jewish texts, that the man we know as Jesus was performing acts that were considered sorcery.
The following is the relevant part of the reconstructed version of the Testimonium Flavianum accepted by a majority of N.T. scholars:
At this time there appeared Jesus, a wise man. For he was a doer of startling deeds, a teacher of people who receive the truth with pleasure. And he gained a following among many Jews and among many of Gentile origin.
And here is the crux of the issue for me; he gained a following among many Jews and among many of Gentile origin.
This was an era when religious traditions were handed down from father to son. There was a pretty strict hierarchy and it was virtually impossible that some young punk would come into a thousands of years old Jewish community, convince people that they, their fathers before them and their community had it all wrong. You had people willing to be tortured and put to death from the time of Jesus, for their beliefs in him.
This could only happen if people had seen something fantastic with their own eyes.
Does this mean I say Jesus was ascended into heaven and all that gooblegook nonsense?
Not really. For a long time I looked at Free Masonry and their take on who Jesus was, whether he was even crucified ( they say no ), and here again was a group of people ( in this case the Masons ) who for centuries had been persecuted, murdered and imprisoned ( or secretly ruled the world, lol ) over their take on who Jesus was. When you dissect free masonry the group has a particular belief about jesus, which sort of defines what they are all about. Again, they believe they know the real story and they believe they have proof.
There is more historical documentation of Jesus, excluding the Bible, than there is of any other single person from that era. It almost doesn't matter where the records come from, they all suggest some sort of miracle was happening. He made a good enough impression on the Muslims to be considered a prophet.
In the end none of that matters. Here is some brief quotes, edited by me. Please cite what you disagree about any of them. I think the point is, there are some profound wisdoms there. Perhaps just absorb the words and don't over think it.
“You have heard the law that says, ‘Love your neighbor’ and hate your enemy. But I say, love your enemies! If you love only those who love you, what reward is there for that? Even corrupt tax collectors do that much. If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else?
“So don’t worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring its own worries. Today’s trouble is enough for today.
Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law
Love your neighbor as yourself.’
“You know that the rulers in this world lord it over their people, and officials flaunt their authority over those under them. But among you it will be different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first among you must be the slave of everyone else.
And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened.